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Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

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57 comments

  • FirstName LastName
    We have one week to downgrade, and after it, it's not possible anymore, I have three pc's on which C1 is installed, first two I had lost the Pro version due to the upgrade, the third one is hanging disconnected from the Internet, as it WILL download and install the upgrade, also with defer upgrades, that does not work. It was downloading the upgrade, Win 10 Pro.

    After this week everyone will NOT be able to downgrade anymore, if the error won't be fixed for that time, than we all have a problem.

    And to downgrade it means losing all future ugrade, so, it's really putting us in a strain. Please fix that, or give all of PRO 8.3 customers, a free 9 Pro Upgrade. Who tells us this won't happen again to v. 9 on the next major Win upgrade?
    Why should we trust PhaseOne and purchase the upgrade "simply"?

    This is terribly wrong. going to Dp as well. In a week.
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  • Ulrick Lawrence
    I have not had C1 for a year yet and your asking me to pay for an upgrade. In my opinion this is very poor product support from PhaseONE, If i can't have support for a product that you sold me less than a year ago.
    Why should I believe that you'll provide me with support for any product that you sell?
    I am extremely angry, about the approach, that your company have chosen to take in this manner as all you have done in C 1 ver 9 is to write in a error handler which you could always add to the code base of C 1 ver 8, but instead you want customers to pay for an upgrade.
    It was my intention to upgrade with the release of version 10 of your software but after this move by PhaseONE I would much rather pay for the much more expensive LIghtroom because I know that it is software that I can depend on to work for more than a year.
    The worst part about this is that all I had to do was have a look at the log files for C 1 ver 9 to see that all your dev's where doing was handling the error that is preventing the application from starting. So we know that it is not a problem that they have not already fixed, and the fix was not a code base re-write that taxed their dev's, So why should we customers who paid for their software should not be angry.
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  • Stefan Hoffmeister
    [quote="NN635772735358360201UL" wrote:
    The worst part about this is that all I had to do was have a look at the log files for C 1 ver 9 to see that all your dev's where doing was handling the error


    If they really only added an _error_ handler, I am disappointed.

    Access to non-public APIs must be done in the most defensive way possible (if at all!) - and in the code snippet posted earlier, there would have been an extremely safe means to be diligent and conservative.

    I have forgotten too much about the static analysis tools available on the Microsoft .Net platform, but "back then" FxCop was quite powerful and, I guess, would have caught that, and probably a lot more.
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  • NNN634946507873289759
    [quote="NN635772735358360201UL" wrote:
    I have not had C1 for a year yet and your asking me to pay for an upgrade. In my opinion this is very poor product support from PhaseONE, If i can't have support for a product that you sold me less than a year ago.
    Why should I believe that you'll provide me with support for any product that you sell?
    I am extremely angry, about the approach, that your company have chosen to take in this manner as all you have done in C 1 ver 9 is to write in a error handler which you could always add to the code base of C 1 ver 8, but instead you want customers to pay for an upgrade.
    It was my intention to upgrade with the release of version 10 of your software but after this move by PhaseONE I would much rather pay for the much more expensive LIghtroom because I know that it is software that I can depend on to work for more than a year.
    The worst part about this is that all I had to do was have a look at the log files for C 1 ver 9 to see that all your dev's where doing was handling the error that is preventing the application from starting. So we know that it is not a problem that they have not already fixed, and the fix was not a code base re-write that taxed their dev's, So why should we customers who paid for their software should not be angry.


    I agree entirely. I've just received the same stupid reply from Phase One. I've responded in similar terms:

    "That can't be right. I purchased Capture One 8 as being compatible with Windows 10. I've checked online and the incompatibility seems to be due to a programming error in Capture One, not a problem in Windows.

    You must maintain compatibility with the operating system, it's not for the operating system to retain errors so that your programme works.

    It would seem to me my options also including leaving Phase One and moving to Lightroom. That is what I will do if you don't fix this. I would never stay with a company which does not maintain support for its products during their reasonable lifespan.

    Your strategy, may I suggest, is wrong on this issue. I tried to support you as a small organisation taking on Adobe. You will lose customers over this I promise you.

    My suggestions is to fix the error in your software or offer a complimentary upgrade to a compatible version if you, for commercial decisions, decide not to update version 8. Obviously the former option is simplest and probably cheapest for you.

    I would have upgraded to version 10 in due course but as an amateur individual photographer doing this for a hobby I have no incentive to do so now. Lightroom is every bit as good as Capture One. You will incentivise customers to go with the commercial leader because they will ensure ongoing product compatibility to maintain their good reputation. Surely this is the opposite of what you are aiming to achieve? That must be a matter for you but I can assure you I will NOT upgrade and I will NOT roll-back my version of Windows for one which presents security risks.

    Kind reconsider your stance on this."

    I will move to Lightroom if they don't sort this out. It's only £99 for a standalone version (Lightroom 6), so cheaper than Capture One and now far better. Support is important.

    Nick
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  • dwahli
    If the fix for this issue is as easy as stated in this topic (basically changing a few lines of code and rebuild), I cannot understand why PhaseONE doesn't do a new fixed build...

    When Lightroom goes to subscription model (yes I know there's a second citizen standalone build, and it works flawlessly after Windows update), some people said that C1 is a better option because when you buy it you can use it forever...
    Well, I'm sure people who bought it one year ago are happy now...

    I suppose PhaseONE think that users with C1 8 on Windows are not enough to deserve the times needed to do a fix. They expect users will be forced to upgrade (good for their money) or they will look elsewhere.
    But I'm pretty sure all these users lost their confidence in this company...
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  • NNN634946507873289759
    I echo that. I would like a refund please. You have broken your contract.

    I have emailed you via support and received the clear message (twice now) that you will not repair Capture One 8, it is a decision by 'PM' (whoever PM is).

    Yours
    Nick
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  • dwahli
    So it looks like they don't want to do anything for their customers, fine...

    Anyone have a solution (even illegal, I consider PhaseONE breaking their contract as my product stated to be compatible with Windows 10 isn't anymore) to make it works again ?

    Patching the executable ?
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  • Thomas Koch
    The club of pissed off CO8 customers grows every day.
    I could not believe the answer I received from support today. (you know it: no fix, downgrade your OS)
    I am using CO since version 3. As an amateur I usually buy every other major version. Bought CO 8 Pro less than a year ago based on the assumption it is Win10 compliant. Now they brake the contract, it is unbelievable.

    I will not pay the normal upgrade price to CO9 Pro. If they don´t fix CO8 it or provide another reasonable offer for CO9, I will quit using their software. Which would be a shame, because it is simply the best raw converter you can get ☹️

    But I can not accept this policy. Guys, this release was actively sold less than a year ago, it is not something completely outdated!

    A very unhappy customer....
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  • Edward11
    Don't get your hopes up that Phase One will solve this issue. Look at the dates on the first posts in this thread: last February and April. This Fatal Error we're encountering was discovered early by people taking part in the Windows Insider program. It affected both versions 8 and 9 of Capture One at that time. Phase One then figured out a fix for version 9, but made the choice to not fix versions 8 and before.

    This was happening last February, just three months after the release of version 9. Phase One made the decision then that they would break all versions of their software but the most current. So if somebody bought Capture One Pro 8 in October for the new price of $300, just four months later Phase One is conspiring to extort an additional $100 out of them by forcing them to upgrade to version 9. I use the term "extort" because these actions by Phase One fit the legal dictionary definition of "extortion" perfectly. And extortion is a crime in most countries.

    Is this thread being logged in any way on servers that aren't controlled by Phase One? I plan to post about this on other photography forums starting tomorrow, one week after Capture One 8 customers running mainstream Windows brought the error to Phase One's attention. I'd like to link to this thread, but Phase One could delete it at any time to cover their tracks.
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  • Simon Felix
    I understand that P1 did not act after Insiders reported the bug. It's unreasonable to patch products for beta releases of Windows. Some Windows releases break things that get fixed later.

    But I really expected them to step up, once the new version was publically released. This is a letdown. Especially since it's a single character fix. It's just really unprofessional.




    I personally do have a fix for the problem. But I had to remove the licensing checks. Distributing this version is obviously illegal. If you have any suggestions how I could/share my workaround, please tell me.
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  • Edward11
    [quote="d_e" wrote:
    I understand that P1 did not act after Insiders reported the bug. It's unreasonable to patch products for beta releases of Windows.


    They did though. But only version 9. They intentionally left version 8 unpatched, planning in advance to force all of us to pay for an upgrade once our software stopped working.

    They knew months ago that version 8 would break unless a single character fix were made. They chose not to make that easy fix because they thought they could extort money from us. This isn't just unprofessional, this is illegal.
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  • don maclean
    I also am affected by this because I run Windows 10 but I also don't understand why it is expected that Phase One should modify what is clearly a Legacy product. Yes it is unfortunate but I don't see any other software providers modifying their legacy products.

    And remember that Adobe wont ever and never has update legacy products.

    It is unreasonable for us to expect Phase One to update v8, but as a gesture they may offer discounts for v8 users to upgrade to v9.

    My thoughts only ...
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  • Edward11
    [quote="AiDon" wrote:
    Yes it is unfortunate but I don't see any other software providers modifying their legacy products.


    Where else has a company releasing professional software had their product completely break just a few months after customers purchased it, and then do nothing?

    Microsoft released Windows 10 on July 29th last year. Imagine if all previous versions of Windows, 8.1, 8, 7, Vista, XP, completely stopped working last October, and Microsoft did nothing. Do you really think that would be acceptable? And this actually isn't a perfect analogy, because users of recent Windows versions can upgrade to 10 for free, while we need to pay $100!

    Phase One made a mistake in their coding, knew about it well in advance, and chose not to fix it, causing their software to break even though it's only a matter of months old. That's where they violate consumer protection laws in the US, as well as probably many other countries as well. Professional users now have to pay additional money to upgrade, just so they can access their own work. How do we get to all of our edits and processing stored in Capture One 8 if it won't even open? That's a huge loss. Phase One is holding that over our heads, demanding greater payment. This is extortion, plain and simple.
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  • Ulrick Lawrence
    [quote="AiDon" wrote:
    I also am affected by this because I run Windows 10 but I also don't understand why it is expected that Phase One should modify what is clearly a Legacy product. Yes it is unfortunate but I don't see any other software providers modifying their legacy products..


    CaptureONE ver. 8(CO8) was a actively being sold 9 months ago. That by no means should be considered a legacy product I might buy that for CO7 and previous versions.

    Lets look at this from a business point of view. In 2015 (any time before the release of CO9) you start a photography business. As a part of starting your business you buy CO8, you have managed to stay open to this point, you leave work one day last week, when you get in the next day Windows tells you that it has upgraded your system. On trying to start CO8, you get a error message. You contact tech support they tell you to add one more expense to business.

    Dose that sound like good customer support?

    Is that a company that you are going to continue to do business with?

    No business continues to do business with any organization that offers such a low return on investment(ROI) and that is a fact. It matters not how great a product they have especially when there exist an alternative to that product that gets the job done.
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  • dwahli
    [quote="d_e" wrote:
    I understand that P1 did not act after Insiders reported the bug. It's unreasonable to patch products for beta releases of Windows. Some Windows releases break things that get fixed later.

    But I really expected them to step up, once the new version was publically released. This is a letdown. Especially since it's a single character fix. It's just really unprofessional.

    I personally do have a fix for the problem. But I had to remove the licensing checks. Distributing this version is obviously illegal. If you have any suggestions how I could/share my workaround, please tell me.

    Really interested by your fix but don't get what you've done.

    Did you patched the main exe ?
    Why do you have to remove license check ?
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  • RichardT
    [quote="dwahli" wrote:
    [quote="d_e" wrote:
    I understand that P1 did not act after Insiders reported the bug. It's unreasonable to patch products for beta releases of Windows. Some Windows releases break things that get fixed later.

    But I really expected them to step up, once the new version was publically released. This is a letdown. Especially since it's a single character fix. It's just really unprofessional.

    I personally do have a fix for the problem. But I had to remove the licensing checks. Distributing this version is obviously illegal. If you have any suggestions how I could/share my workaround, please tell me.

    Really interested by your fix but don't get what you've done.

    Did you patched the main exe ?
    Why do you have to remove license check ?


    I was wondering about the legal implications in regard to the Capture One Software License Agreement?

    3.2 This License only gives you some rights to use the Software. Phase One reserves all other rights. Except as permitted by applicable law you may not decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Software. You may not modify, rent, lease, loan, distribute, sublicense, create derivative works from the Software, transmit the Software over a network or otherwise provide commercial hosting services with the Software.
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  • Simon Felix
    In order to make the software interoperable with other systems (Windows 10 in this case) you are allowed to reverse engineer software in most jurisdictions. Sure, it's not in compliance with the EULA. But I don't think that I caused any damage to PhaseOne, I don't profit from it and I don't distribute my results. I don't see why they would want to sue me for this.



    I had to remove the licensing code, because it noticed that I modified the application and didn't let me run the application anymore.
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  • John Doe
    [quote="AiDon" wrote:
    I also am affected by this because I run Windows 10 but I also don't understand why it is expected that Phase One should modify what is clearly a Legacy product.

    Simply because they CLAIM that CO8 is compatible with Windows 10. If they didn't say so, people would have no cause to complain. If they say it's compatible with Windows 10, they must make it work on Windows 10, period.
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  • dwahli
    [quote="AiDon" wrote:
    I also am affected by this because I run Windows 10 but I also don't understand why it is expected that Phase One should modify what is clearly a Legacy product. Yes it is unfortunate but I don't see any other software providers modifying their legacy products.

    People bought it at full price until October 29th, 2015, after CO9 was available or you was entitled for a free update.
    It's only 9 months old !
    Do you think it's OK that a (expensive) software could not be used after only 9 months ???

    [quote="AiDon" wrote:
    And remember that Adobe wont ever and never has update legacy products.

    For me, CO8 is the only software that have an issue after Windows update.
    My Lightroom 5 which is lot more older works flawlessly.
    I never heard about any issues with Adobe product after Windows update, or even Windows version upgrade.

    [quote="AiDon" wrote:
    It is unreasonable for us to expect Phase One to update v8, but as a gesture they may offer discounts for v8 users to upgrade to v9.

    Already asked but refused.
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  • NNN635085350375842351
    I am very, very, disapointed by Phase One's reaction to this.
    If they don't reconsider very soon I am going to take my business elsewhere.
    ☹️
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  • don maclean
    [quote="dwahli" wrote:

    People bought it at full price until October 29th, 2015, after CO9 was available or you was entitled for a free update.
    It's only 9 months old !
    Do you think it's OK that a (expensive) software could not be used after only 9 months ???


    Your right users who purchased Capture One 30 days before the release date were eligible for a free upgrade. (I upgraded back in October2014 and only 12 months later v9 was released) so it does have an approximate cycle of a year.

    I am not condoning their actions, just saying it is unreasonable for us to expect any company to provide updates for previous versions (legacy) of any software.

    But I do suggest that Phase One should offer affected users a discount greater than the currently available 10% as an enticement to upgrade.
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  • Ulrick Lawrence
    [quote="AiDon" wrote:


    Your right users who purchased Capture One 30 days before the release date were eligible for a free upgrade. (I upgraded back in October2014 and only 12 months later v9 was released) so it does have an approximate cycle of a year.

    I am not condoning their actions, just saying it is unreasonable for us to expect any company to provide updates for previous versions (legacy) of any software.

    But I do suggest that Phase One should offer affected users a discount greater than the currently available 10% as an enticement to upgrade.


    AiDon you keep saying that C1 8 is legacy/outdated anyone selling anything that is ment for the use by professionals no matter the industry or level had better support that product for a minimum of 2 years because pros need to get most out any investment they make.

    The problem here is that PhaseOne management has made the decision to obviate all version prior to C1 9 on WIn 10 A.E. the problem is not as a result of MS breaking compatibility but as a result of them enforcing rules for the .NET framework that the C1 team uses.

    Here is the kicker d_e who as far as I know dose not work for PhaseONE and not privy to the C1 code base in the space of oh about 48hr came up with a solution to the problem.

    We are not asking C1 to upgrade user to the latest version of their software, we are asking them to fix a problem of their own making. Asking user to not upgrade their OS is not a good answer to the problem as the feature that they were using that is no longer available can be exploited by malicious software.

    d_e if is indeed that PhaseONE has abandon C1 on Win 10 A.E. then it can be argued that have not done and can not do any damages to them as they have no financial interest in C1 8 and below. As long a your not violating their IP. And there lays the rub of this management decision, no one came to this decision looked at it from any other angle then the "lets force them to upgrade so we make more money" point of view
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  • Stefan Hoffmeister
    [quote="d_e" wrote:
    In order to make the software interoperable with other systems (Windows 10 in this case) you are allowed to reverse engineer software in most jurisdictions.


    Specifically, it is allowed in the EU, for instance - http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 022:EN:PDF
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  • Stefan Hoffmeister
    [quote="AiDon" wrote:
    I am not condoning their actions, just saying it is unreasonable for us to expect any company to provide updates for previous versions (legacy) of any software.


    PhaseOne advertised, and continue to advertise, support for the Microsoft Windows 10 operating system for Capture One 8.x.

    Looking at the technical implementation presented in this thread, PhaseOne deliberately opted to
    * access private implementation details of the base operating system
    * coded that very access in a defective fashion

    Now, Microsoft, on the core .Net platform (which is the subject here), is an extremely diligent partner. They really, really, REALLY go for backwards compatibility. They are a very responsible bunch of bunch of people.

    But PhaseOne simply made two mistakes - they deliberately violated the "only use public APIs" rule that every professional software developer will take as major gospel (design defect). And then, on top, they made a stupid mistake (implementation defect). Their QA never caught that.

    Full blame, all of it, no mediating factors, is on one party: PhaseOne.

    Commercially, I understand the stance PhaseOne takes. As a paying customer of PhaseOne, and given the story above, I think that is very much unacceptable.
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  • Edward11
    I've contacted the office of my state attorney general regarding the actions of Phase One. I suggest others in the US do the same with their state's attorney general, and those in other countries contact the equivalent government office for them.

    At issue are two key points:

    First is that Phase One sold customers a professional software product, and then a few months later decided to completely break it, rendering it inaccessible. People were still purchasing Capture One Pro 8 in October, while Phase One was made aware of this .Net problem in February, just four months later. They fixed the issue in Pro 9 but decided not to take care of the software they were selling for $300 a short time before. This violates the customer's reasonable expectation of use, that the software they buy will be accessible for longer than a few months. (Phase One may have actually been aware of this problem earlier, but we know from the first posts in this thread that they were informed by February at the latest)

    Second is that customers are now unable to open Capture One Pro 8 at all, impeding their ability to complete jobs or fulfill contracts and obligations. All their work done within Capture One 8 is off limits now, and Phase One tells its customers they must pay an additional fee to access it. That work belongs to us, and Phase One cannot order us to pay them money for our own work.

    Phase One also says we can roll back the Windows 10 updates to regain access to Capture One 8, but that is not necessarily possible for many customers. To start with, it must be done within ten days of the Anniversary update, or else the system cannot be restored to a prior state. So if you don't discover this issue and attempt to roll back Windows 10 in time, your only option is to pay Phase One the ransom they're demanding. Also, even if you are able to act quick enough to roll your computer back, Windows 10 will automatically reschedule the Anniversary update again, rendering Capture One Pro 8 inaccessible once more, unless you are tech savvy enough to stop it. And then, even if you have the knowhow to stop all future updates, you will still face problems because your computer will be open to myriad security vulnerabilities, and it will gradually grow incompatible with all other software besides Capture One 8. Those limitations are unreasonable, and Phase One cannot stop us from accessing our own work in this way.

    Phase One has broken multiple consumer protection laws, and I urge you not to let them get away with it.
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  • Ulf Liljegren
    Hi

    A beta version of Capture One 8.3.5 can now be requested by contacting Phase One support.
    Go to:
    And click on contact support.

    Final version of 8.3.5 which includes support for Windows 10 Anniversary edition will hopefully be out very soon.

    As this is now available, the discussion in this thread has run its course and will closed.
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  • Ulf Liljegren
    Hi

    Final version of Capture One 8 is now available from the software archive.
    Version is 8.3.5 which fixes issues with Windows 10 Anniversary edition.
    https://www.phaseone.com/en/Download/So ... veWin.aspx
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