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Does C1 Pro display tiffs/jpgs in a smaller color space?

Carlos_
I'm trying to broaden my limited knowledge of C1 (I'm a LR user) and today I found something that strikes me as odd.

When displaying a jpg file with default adjustments, the colors I see on screen are not correct (slightly desaturated). It's as if the image was being proofed in a smaller color space, but I have already set as proof the same color space of the jpeg file, Adobe RGB in this case (since I think C1 Pro always shows a proof version, whether you want it or not), to no avail. And of course, I've made no edits to the image after importing it. This probably won't be always noticeable, so I'm testing it with an image that has colors outside sRGB, but still into my display's gamut, so that I'm able to notice any clipping... and so it seems for unknown reasons to me.

Is there any reason why this could happen? Shouldn't interpreted file formats as jpeg be rendered in a neutral way by default in C1 Pro? Thanks.
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Comments

48 comments

Date Votes
  • Dave R
    I am struggling to reproduce this problem. I have Capture One set to View/Proof Profile/No proof profile and when I compare an AdobeRGB TIFF file in Lightroom and Capture One 9 on my fully calibrated NEF MultiSync PA241W wide gamut monitor (100% Adobe RGB) the difference is subtle and more to do with precise white balance settings than anything else. Where am I going wrong?
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  • Matthias B
    For me, I can only say something about sRGB (because of Jpeg's).
    I got no answer from the service up to now btw...
    I'll keep you updated.
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  • HansB
    I can easily reproduce it here, on 2 different MBP (2009 & 2014). I tried it again just now.

    Step 1: create a small tiff image with 300x300px and a saturated, solid red or yellow color like sRGB (223,15,32) in PS, AP or Gimp. Save it.
    Step 2: create the same sRGB image with 3000x3000px. Save it.
    Step 3: start CO, create a clean new session, and view both images side-by-side in proof profile sRGB.
    Step 5: Add a color readout somewhere.

    The small, uneditable one correctly shows sRGB (223,15,32,79).
    The big editable one incorrectly shows sRGB (222,39,34,93).
    That's visible even without color readouts. It looks pale.

    Doing the same with AdobeRGB gives me (223,15,32,79) (small, correct) and (254,51,36,101) (big, incorrect). That's even worse.

    Setting the proof profile to 'no profile' doesn't change the look of the colors.

    The funny thing is, that CO shows the correct color values when the image is too small for CO to be edited. Even when viewing the small sRGB image in AdobeRGB and vice versa.

    Is it me doing something wrong, or is it CO?


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • John Doe
    CO probably applies automatic adjustments to the big, editable pictures, whereas the small, uneditable ones remain untouched. Did you uncheck "auto adjust" when importing?

    Provided it's not (yet another) bug, that's the only rational explanation I can come up with.
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  • Matthias B
    While importing NO adjustments are made. But interestingly, while the import dialog is open, the preview is correct. As soon as the file is imported, the colors are wrong.
    Look at the screenshot. The right side is the import dialog (and no adjustments are made). As soon as you import the picture, you will get the result to the left. I measured the RGB values for red - but it's obvious for the other colors too.

    Picture: https://picload.org/image/rgdrlapw/compare.jpg
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  • HansB
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    CO probably applies automatic adjustments to the big, editable pictures, whereas the small, uneditable ones remain untouched. Did you uncheck "auto adjust" when importing?

    Provided it's not (yet another) bug, that's the only rational explanation I can come up with.


    No adjustments applied. I was browsing the images in the Library folder tree and opened them. There is no 'adjusted' mark on the images. Nevertheless I checked all tabs and tools for settings. Nothing.

    The only thing I can come up with is the color profile. It is 'TIFF file neural', not 'AdobeRGB' or 'sRGB'.

    I assume CO just disregards the tiff image profile and renders it in 'TIFF file neural' without conversion. That would also explain the difference when rendering AdobeRGB and sRGB. But that's really just a guess.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • John Doe
    That's a distinct possibility, I guess. Can't you change the profile?
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  • HansB
    I can change the input profile. But there are no input profiles for AdobeRGB and sRGB in the list. None of the listed profiles gives me acceptable color matching.

    I tried to cheat CO by using an icc editor and defined copies of the AdobeRGB and sRGB profiles as 'Input' instead of 'Output'. The profiles are now in CO's list, but the colors change to over-saturated. So there must be some difference between import-profiles and output-profiles.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • HansB
    [quote="HansB" wrote:
    ...
    Step 1: create a small tiff image with 300x300px and a saturated, solid red or yellow color like sRGB (223,15,32) in PS, AP or Gimp. Save it.
    Step 2: create the same sRGB image with 3000x3000px. Save it.
    Step 3: start CO, create a clean new session, and view both images side-by-side in proof profile sRGB.
    Step 5: Add a color readout somewhere.

    The small, uneditable one correctly shows sRGB (223,15,32,79).
    The big editable one incorrectly shows sRGB (222,39,34,93).
    That's visible even without color readouts. It looks pale.

    Doing the same with AdobeRGB gives me (223,15,32,79) (small, correct) and (254,51,36,101) (big, incorrect). That's even worse.
    ...


    Just adding a screenshot for my AdobeRGB example.

    https://picload.org/image/rgdrilad/screenshot2016-04-21at11.20.29.pngl

    https://picload.org/image/rgdriolg/scre ... .20.29.png


    Regards,
    Hans


    Edit: The image is tagged as 'adjusted' because I tried changing the profile and reverted manually without resetting. The readout value is correct.
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  • ChrisM
    For anything beyond sRGB (color spaces larger than sRGB), remember that CO1 converts ALL Jpeg and tiff images to sRGB before displaying them in the CO1 viewer.

    Chris
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  • HansB
    [quote="ChrisM" wrote:
    For anything beyond sRGB (color spaces larger than sRGB), remember that CO1 converts ALL Jpeg and tiff images to sRGB before displaying them in the CO1 viewer.

    Chris


    Both images in the screenshot are created in the same color space and with exactly the same color. They show different colors in CO. They also do when created in sRGB. See my previous post(s) in this thread.

    [quote="HansB" wrote:
    ...
    Step 1: create a small tiff image with 300x300px and a saturated, solid red or yellow color like sRGB (223,15,32) in PS, AP or Gimp. Save it.
    Step 2: create the same sRGB image with 3000x3000px. Save it.
    Step 3: start CO, create a clean new session, and view both images side-by-side in proof profile sRGB.
    Step 5: Add a color readout somewhere.

    The small, uneditable one correctly shows sRGB (223,15,32,79).
    The big editable one incorrectly shows sRGB (222,39,34,93).
    ...


    The more saturated a color is, the more it is de-saturated and shifted in CO.

    I tried a lot of other software on OS X, Linux, *nix, Windows and Andriod. It's only in CO.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Marcus Schouten
    I have the same problem. Import a jpg file, export it and the colors are changed. Especially strong yellow, or green leaves where the sun is shining through. I created a support case over a week ago, but still no reply. For now I have to use Xnview to crop and rotate jpg's, but I really would like Capture One as my only tool for RAW and jpg.
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  • Matthias B
    It's the same here. As I said, I've created a support ticket on 18.04.2016. But up to today, I got no answer....
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  • Matthias B
    Good news,

    I got an answer on the topic today:

    "Hello,

    We do have a known bug with non-Raw files (Tiff, Jpeg) that very saturated colors are not reproduced well. We are working on correcting this in a future update.

    Best regards,
    Phase One Technical Support"

    Sadly there's no shedule when the bug will be fixed. Another user mentioned this problem around 7 months before - so I guess this is not on the top priority list. At least they are aware of the problem. 💡
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  • HansB
    [quote="MatthiasB" wrote:
    ...
    "Hello,

    We do have a known bug with non-Raw files (Tiff, Jpeg) that very saturated colors are not reproduced well. We are working on correcting this in a future update.

    Best regards,
    Phase One Technical Support"
    ...



    That's the same answer I received last September. I looked up my support case. I filed it for v8.3.3.

    CO is a raw converter. Being able to view, adjust and keep tiff and jpeg, is just a nice extra for me. But once the feature is there, it should work correctly. At the moment, the color issue breaks the 'roundtrip' for me. And imported tiff images with focus stacks, hdr images and panorama stitches look horrible when viewed in CO.

    Waiting for a fix, hoping for the next version again.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Marcus Schouten
    I would really like this issue resolved, I assign keywords to my RAW files and jpg files in CO, rotating, cropping, keystone correction all word great. Even noise reduction works great on jpg files. For the time being I have to do part of my work in CO, and part of it in Xnview. Not very convenient.

    Anyhow, the support team is working on my case, so I'll see how it works out.
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  • Marcus Schouten
    I would really like this issue resolved, I assign keywords to my RAW files and jpg files in CO, rotating, cropping, keystone correction all word great. Even noise reduction works great on jpg files. For the time being I have to do part of my work in CO, and part of it in Xnview. Not very convenient.

    Anyhow, the support team is working on my case, so I'll see how it works out.
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  • NN635044528269023880UL
    I am another new user of Capture One. I wanted to ask if anyone has also experienced the issue where RAW files when not viewed at 100% have different colors often over saturated. So that when you edit the image and then click on edit in photoshop, you get a TIFF that is much less saturated then the preview in C1. So it seems you can only edit photos at 100% for color accuracy otherwise you cannot properly judge the colors. My problem is also that the preview in C1 of RAW files shows different colors depending on the level of zooming in and the only accurate judgement is at 100%. The strange thing is that the Tiff file looks in C1 like it does in photoshop, which is less saturated. I have it set to Adobe RGB when I edit with photoshop. So to summarize the preview in C1 unless zoomed to 100% and even then with high ISO files there are some color mismatches does not match the Tiff files that are created when I edit with photoshop. So if I take a high ISO image and view the RAW and TIFF created in C1 and compare to photoshop. They will literally, all three have different colors with the C1 RAW when viewed at 100% being quite close to the Tiff in photoshop and the Tiff in C1 being the least saturated.
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