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What's in Capture One 21

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44 comments

  • Kaveh Vaghefi

    Seriously, came here to say this, it seems really weird to send an email out asking us to pre-order a product without actually telling anyone if there's anything new/different in said product.

    10
  • Jim Hughes

    I wasted a few minutes before concluding that yes, they're actually not telling you a thing about the product they'd like you to pre-order.    

    This is certainly a new twist.  LOL.

     

     

    8
  • Bart Vanbever

    Some news about what's new and the timing would be nice indeed.

    Asking to pay for something without any specifications nor delivery time is not a customer friendly action in my humble opinion.

    But to conclude positive: happy about the announced 20% discount.

    7
  • Gonzalo Contreras

    Dear all,

     

    I have read various responses and comments.

    It is simple, any company that is promoting a new version, always says what are the enhancements of what you will be obtaining from the new version/payment. It is curious that they send you directly to the payment section, without knowing what you will get.

    I wrote to David in this regard, but haven't received an answer yet.

    Hope C1 changes the strategy which does not accommodate to some of us.

     

    6
  • Arthur Poon

    Me too and would like to know what is the improvement. I am also want to know will it get the free upgrade due to I got my Capture One 20 license in July 2020? 

    5
  • André Vinzio

    J'approuve les commentaires ci-dessus : Proposer une mise à jour payante sans en donner le contenu, même avec un rabais de 20%, n'est vraiment pas fair-play

    AV

    5
  • Permanently deleted user

    Just out of curiosity are you the Capture One apologist? For whatever reason you feel the need to respond to virtually every thread with this ceaseless defence of Capture One.

    Do they have you on the payroll?

    4
  • Kaveh Vaghefi

    Well this has gone off topic rather quickly.  I don't really care who is on who's payroll, fundamentally the original purpose of this thread still stands.  It's really weird to be sending out an upgrade offer like this with *no* actual announcement of what's different in 21.x.  Whoever's payroll you're on, the only way you'd be constructively adding to this topic is to actually offer some information that would answer the original question here.

     

    I've looked through the site and couldn't find anything.  What's more, I got a second email this morning again saying I should "Pre-Order and save".  Why?  What am I getting by even buying version 21.x (pre-order or not)?  I think that's a very fair question to ask before money changes hands.

    4
  • Barry Sanders

    I find the timing of this to be odd with all the Adobe news circulating. As the case with video games, don't pre-order unless there's some significant discount or bonus. 

    Someone else had this question, but I just upgraded from the Sony only version to the full version about a month ago.  I would really hope to be in the "free" upgrade window.  I also hope that Capture One 21 doesn't go the Adobe Photoshop 2021/ Portrait Pro route and FILTERFY everything.

    2
  • Michele Cattaneo

    I haven't received any mail.

    More technical information is appreciated.

    TNK in advanced.

     

    1
  • ernst.w

    "Likewise, I would want to know what the changes are before committing to that."

    More than this I would like to know if any of me annoing issues was fixed and which one(s).

    1
  • Mark Witherington

    SFA is one of the people in this forum that actually tries to help people and as often is the case doesn't get the thanks they deserve.  I appreciate the balance SFA, thanks.  

    While I still think it is a bit odd to promote an upgrade without any detail, going through the debate here has lead me to think differently and explore other options to get the information I need to make a decision.  SFA is perfectly correct that nobody is forcing us to upgrade and it was a timely and sobering comment for me.

    It is human nature to try and jump for discount, if it wasn't then companies would not do it so often.  My initial thought was to resist the discount and wait for the release and find out what the changes were, but eventually I figured out that I could actually get involved by signing up for and getting hold of a beta copy. After seeing in I think there are some useful features that will help me.

    So for me the negative and positive comments have helped.  Negative comments lead me to go find more information, the positive comments (or one in particular) helped me find the information I needed to make a decision.

    There is a tendency for negativity in culture today as it plays on people's fears, we just have to look at news media to see it.  it's easy to get sucked in to a negative attitude, let's all try to be a bit more positive :).

    1
  • SFA

    I see that there is to be a "Sneak Peek" activity on 17th November.

    Hopefully that will be helpful for those wishing to know what is being offered with the introduction of V21.

    1
  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Thanks for some sanity, Grant.

    Ian

    0
  • SFA

    Thanks Ian.

    Thanks Mark too, especially for introducing the wider angles of human nature to the discussion!

    I think nearly everyone falls into the category of seeking a "deal" and it is, in general, important that we do since retailers operate based on the expectation that we will. However there are times when we need to step back and ask ourselves about exceptions to natural instincts and whether the cost of looking for deals or delaying an investment will be greater to us personally than the potential savings available. But that's a very personal decision.

    I am reminded of a situation from a long time ago when desktop PCs were in their infancy.

    The buyer at the company I was working for at the time was asked to obtain 2 "floppy disk"s for backup purposes as a one-off purchase and needed quickly.

    He spent an entire day on the task looking for the best deal he could find since this was a new type of product that he had not previously needed to know about. Most of that time was spent getting the best price. I think in the end he saved about £1 on a £10 deal that could have been satisfied in minutes (the techs needed the disk ASAP) from a source just down the street. A distinctly false economy in that case.

    0
  • Mark Witherington

    haha, 'he saved about £1 on a £10 deal', and probably spent £20 on human effort doing the investigation :D.  That sounds very familiar. 

    I watched an interesting webex last night for another piece of software and the discussion was around 'value', which struck a cord with me.  I think the thing that people don't like about the strategy is that they cannot gauge 'value'. Generally speaking,  those that pre-order without knowing what's in the software are to some extent trusting the supplier to deliver something that adds value, be it performance increases, new tools or whatever it may be. Those who wait to see what's in the update or actively go out and find the information want to gauge the value for themselves. Some I suppose just want to be on the latest version and don's care so much.

    Generally when looking at software and particularly updates, I ask myself is will what's being added save me time or make the job easier/more enjoyable and therefore is the money being asked worth it to me.  Since Capture One is my primary editing tool, I suspect I sit somewhere between two and three in that I want to be able to gauge value, but in all likelihood I will get the update as out of the editing software I use Capture One gets used the most.  

    0
  • Mark Witherington

    Kaveh Vaghefi,

    Reliable information on the content of C1 21 seems only available through people who have been involved in the beta test program.  It has been made abundantly clear by Capture One that if involved in the beta program that the content is under NDA and any discussion around the content in any open forum is strictly prohibited. Therefore it is unlikely that anyone here will be able to make a statement as to what's in the new version.

    Now there is information out there if people wanna go find it, there is still I think an opportunity to get involved in the beta program, so the choice is to wait for a statement from Capture One or go find the information needed.

    0
  • Ricardo Gomes

    Hello, I own Studio One 20 licence ? should I pay to get the updade ?

    0
  • SFA

    Ricardo,

    When Capture One 21 is released you should be able to take a trial for 30 days to see what it offers that is of benefit to you before you make your decision.

    Based on the history of release dates over the past 4 or 5 years one could estimate that the release might be in the next 2 to 3 weeks. Usually there is a short delay after Apple releases an OS update while possible last minute changes to the OS specification are assessed so that the C1 release can be finalised.

    I'm not sure from what wrote whether you have a Capture One Studio license (now "Enterprise"?).

    If you do perhaps your best option would be to talk to your Capture One contacts (as I understand it Enterprise has some form of direct support) and discuss your options with them.

    So far as I am aware all variations of the Capture One license options are released at the same time. It may be that most of those licenses are obtained on a subscription model basis, in which case the update is available anyway with no purchase decision required.

    Bear in mind that my comments are made as a fellow user and NOT an official of Capture One.

    0
  • Ricardo Gomes

    I purchase the perpetual license of Capture One 20 for Sony last year so, should I repay 130 euros to upgrade ? in this case it is not an update it's just buying a new license...

    0
  • SFA

    @Ricardo Gomes

    Is your personal upgrade option offer for your Sony deal that much with the discount?

    I assume the number includes VAT?

    0
  • Ricardo Gomes

    @sfa sorry for telling you this way but I don’t really see no factual information in you answers ... Yes or No, should I repay a perpetual licence for C1 21 ? Or should à go for a “photoshop” subscription to get it free ?

    0
  • Mark Witherington

    Ricardo,

    It seems to me that you need to look at the prices under your profile. In my profile it looks to me that the an annual subscription is £180 for the year, out of offer it's £20 a month for the Pro version which is what I have, the costs for what you have may be different. I managed to get C1 21 under the offer for £120, so it seems to me that buying perpetual is cheaper for the version I have.  Although I am not a person who like subscriptions and it is the main reason I left Lightroom, so there may be some advantages to subscription that I am not aware of, but I am sure the information is there for the taking with a bit of research.

    It also seems to me that if you go subscription then you are sort of tied in going forward.

    As for if you should upgrade or not, the choice is clear, the upgrade is available on offer and if you can buy it with the information available, which is not much information, or you can wait until release, find out what's in it and then upgrade or not. The offer may end, but Capture One have had other offers throughout the year in previous years, and if you wait then you can take your chance later when you know what you are getting and decide then.

    I enrolled in the beta test programme and this is a method of getting some information on what's in C1 21. I did also manage to find some sites that have leaked the content although how much trust can be placed in some of this information is for the reader to decide. Information can be available if you are willing to look. 

    0
  • SFA
    @Ricardo Gomes
     

    "@sfa sorry for telling you this way but I don’t really see no factual information in you answers ... Yes or No, should I repay a perpetual licence for C1 21 ? Or should à go for a “photoshop” subscription to get it free ?"

    2 replies.

    I asked the last question because, as Mark has pointed out, existing customers can access personalised information about their available offers for upgrades of changes to the way they wish to pay for Capture One thorugh their Capture One accounts.

    I do not have the same version of C1 that you have and I live in a place with a different currency and (probably) tax rate.

    Your upgrade price quoted in Euros looks a little higher than I would expect from the information you had previously offered. So I thought I would check with you.

    Without that information there is no way I could or would make any sort of recommendation.

    I do not understand your last sentence that mentions photoshop.

    Mark's words offer good advice.

    There is no way that anyone should offer a "yes/no" answer to your question as it is written.

    Only you can decide.

    0
  • Ricardo Gomes

    Ok, thanks for answer anyway

    0
  • SFA

    Kevin,

    Everytime anyone signs up for a subscription (Microsoft, Adobe and everyone else in the software business if they think they can do so ) or a new cell phone with the "promise" of it being updated with future updates of its operating system, (content unknown) or even Apple when people but some fully controlled hardware with no idea what they might be required to install during their years of pre-paid support ownership, they are buying into the unknown. Often with no choice.

    The simple message is that here you have a choice. If it worries you you have absolutely no need to purchase the software or the update if you already have a license for an earlier version before you know what it contains. You can even test it for 30 days to be sure that you fully understand what the descriptions mean and whether they work for you.

    I am simply amazed that so many people (it seems - perhaps just the vocal minority?) do not seem to properly understand this. It's fine to not like the idea of buying blind. I am with people on that.

    But the point is you do not have to if you do not want to.

    Why all of the angst?

    Is it some sort of Pandemic response?

    Have people lost all of their ability to think rationally?

    Or is it just good for social media 'likes'?

     

    0
  • Gonzalo Contreras

    I just saw some of the comments regarding CO21, the last post has a good explanation on subscriptions, I would just delete the second half of it, it does not add value.

    In my opinion, CO made a mistake on the launch of version 21; for those who have a perpetual license, they were asking us to blindly pay additionally for uncertain features.

    After seeing Tuesday's sneak peek, none of the features have true value for me, guess that it has for some photographers, otherwise they wouldn't have developed it.

    Wouldn’t it be better if CO said: for all our customers that have perpetual licenses for X amount of years, will have a discount when the new version is launched based on the number of years you are using and upgrading CO, rewarding loyalty. Payment would be done only after you see the product and decide to pay for the upgrade.

    Anyway, water under the bridge, will have to wait and see when v21 is out to see all features.

    0
  • Kevin Ip

    @SFA, what made you think I'm a subscriber paying monthly? I am not. I paid per license.

     

    This CO21 doesn't apply here, Microsoft, Google is not pay per upgrade. You have pay per upgrade jump here. I am one of them pay per upgrades, I can't see what I am paying for the upgrades and ask for money.

    That is the problem you guys don't understand.

     

    You should speak to my wallet.

    0
  • SFA

    Kevin,

    I did not think you are a subscription user. But you suggested that nobody pays for software without knowing what will come in its future and I was merely pointing out that many many people, most in fact, do exactly that with many of the applications or services that they commit to.

    Now you may point to an OS, for example, and say - hey look, we have no real idea what is coming but it doesn't matter because we are not being asked to pay for it and you would be right. Although in the case of Windows, not always once the "free update" period has ended.

    But that's just loss leader marketing if it's free. You pay for everything else, indirectly if not directly. And that is worth more to MS and Apple than selling operating system updates. Much more.

    You will be able to see AND try the software before you have to pay for it, should you decided to do so. So where is the problem?

    And just for clarity  - I don't know who you were referring to when you wrote "you guys" but is sort of suggests that you might think I am employed by Capture One. 

    I am not.

    If I was I would not be in a position to reply to you at all.

     

    I have plenty of discussions with my own wallet.

    It usually tells me to avoid expensive new cameras and lenses and buy only stuff that helps to turn data into images. But only if I really feel I must make that investment because some benefit will accrue.

    I suspect that many other wallets are saying the same thing given the decline in camera sales outside the mobile phone market over recent years.

    0
  • SFA

    @Gonzalo Contreras

     

    You are probably right about the second part of the post.

    In my defence I would observe that the same message from me, others and Capture One official information seems somehow to elicit negative responses and then be permanently ignored or discounted.

    I truly to not understand why there seems to be such a significant logic failure rate amongst a group of people one would expect to be somewhat logical.

    Historically one can look at past upgrade points and see that the upgrade cost is about 50% of whatever the current full license cost (excluding discounts) would be. Sometimes that is extended back further to a prior release, either with the same deal or a higher price.

    This year seems to fit the same pattern bu the relatively early announcement (compared to most previous events) means the "grace " period for recent purchasers is effectively a little longer than the traditional 30 days. Hence buy 21 but get the use of 20 straight away. Plus some styles.

    So there is already a form of structured reduced payment somewhat like you describe and an additional "incentive" discount from the target price for those who will want to buy anyway.  I'm not sure what more anyone could do without making the whole process much to complicated and confusing - like last year for example.

    This concept is not at all new. In all the years I been involved with the software industry the same sort of principles have applied. In commercial business software there is (or was until subscription principles removed the need for it) an  additional "Maintenance" fee payable with payment a requirement in order to qualify for the reduced price upgrades.

    I seem to recall some personal use applications that had a similar principle.

    Moreover I  doubt that I am alone in buying all sort so of stuff, including a lot of software, over the years that has never or hardly ever been used. Often on a whim and without really knowing if whatever it is will be of any use at all,

    People do stuff like that all the time.

    So why make such a fuss about an offer of an additional discount for an early order commitment on the basis "I don't know what I am buying". You should do. Most of it already exists. And if nothing else you buying into future Operating system compatibility  - something that is driven by Apple and Microsoft and represents their "unseen" product development which for many is not optional and for many others will be welcomed unquestioned - especially in the case of Apple. Less choice with Microsoft so one either accepts everything or resists for a while and then takes whatever is on offer at the time.

    Frankly I find it concerning that people cannot see something as simple as this and understand how open their options are and how little difference there is in cost, no matter what decision they make, compared with just about everything else in their lives.

     

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