Keystone tool fix – request for information
Could you possibly provide a straight answer to the question of whether you have any intention of fixing the keystone tool in the foreseeable future, e.g. this year? I've asked about the status of this issue countless times since I started using Capture One in late 2019 and have received nothing but non-informative replies. I'm aware that you prefer not to give out any information to Capture One users, but I hope you will understand that it would be useful to know whether there's any chance that it will be fixed or it has too little priority for the allocation of the resources that a fix would require – that is: is there any reason to stick with Capture One for users who need a properly working keystone tool? I don't see any good reason why users shouldn't expect a clear answer to this question.
For reference, here's one topic about the issue in question.
Examples here.
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c1 is the titanic of raw converter... nothing makes them change course.
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Just curious... What exactly are you requesting to be fixed in the keystone tool? Is it an issue introduced in the recent 14.1 update? I haven't used it in 14.1 yet but have not encountered any serious issue personally.
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It's an issue which appears to have existed ever since the keystone tool was introduced about ten years ago. Sometimes when you make keystone corrections (vertical and horizontal) using the adjustment points, you don't get right angles. You can see a few examples of what happens here. Vertical keystone corrections can also produce unexpected results, but it happens less often.
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Thanks! I have experienced that as well! I sometime will take the guides roughly farther than the edge I am trying to straighten as a "work-around". I may adjust it further in PS if I can't fine-tune it in C1.
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It's an issue which appears to have existed ever since the keystone tool was introduced about ten years ago. Sometimes when you make keystone corrections (vertical and horizontal) using the adjustment points, you don't get right angles. You can see a few examples of what happens here. Vertical keystone corrections can also produce unexpected results, but it happens less often.
Is this happening after you've adjusted the default amount of keystone adjustment from 80% to 100%?
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when you use vertical and horizontal together it is set at 100% as default. a really creative tool ! before and after....
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"Is this happening after you've adjusted the default amount of keystone adjustment from 80% to 100%?"
As CSP pointed out above, the default for simultaneous vertical and horizontal keystone correction is 100%. And the issues with vertical correction are after raising the amount from 80 to 100%.
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while adobe is adding really useful improvements c1 is all about pseudo stuff to please wannabes and marketing. this is already rather bad but they also ignore to fix broken tools like this, other issues and bugs since years ! maybe professional user in the sense of user demanding that this software works because they rely on it for their business are not the clients they care about.
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If they want to focus on other things than fixing the keystone tool that is, of course, their decision, but it would be helpful and a lot less frustrating if they would just say so.
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ignoring bugs like this is clear statement in my view, do you expect a public announcement ?
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I agree. At this point, I don't expect anything. But it would be useful – not to mention reasonable – if they would provide at least some information on the status of this issue. When they see that users are having trouble with their product because it doesn't work as it's supposed to, declining to provide any information whatsoever doesn't appear to be the best way of handling the problem. And it's far from what I've experienced with other (comparable) companies.
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I also do not have any similar negative experience with any other software I use and as a long time user I also have to say things got clearly worse in the last years. it is undeniable that there was a shift in focus and there is nothing we can do about it as you see. c1 has become everything fanboys alleged adobe is but good luck with this approach as the technology game has changed with ai and c1 is on the loosing side.
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C1 had its time but unless they get busy on stuff like this its nearing an end. They are just interested in adding flashy new features that they can market. Meanwhile Adobe has added improved color adjustment to LR and ACR and Rawtherapee is beating everyone in everything except program speed (its kind of slow, unusual for an open source app, those are usually faster than commercial).
Let the record show - I stopped using Capture One because of the keystone tool bugs. That is essential to my business. It 'just works' in every other software but C1 has been ignoring a glaring bug in it for 10 years.
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...adobe has improved a lot of things not only on the tool side but also ( quietly) on image quality while with c1 the problems and issues got bigger and no progress on image quality was made for a very long time. from tethered shooting to output almost every part of this software has issues now or is inferior to other solutions. but in the catagory most unsolved bugs c1 is the unchallenged leader, I would also have never imagined that a software company is so shameless to ignore a broken tool like this for such a long time.
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"I stopped using Capture One because of the keystone tool bugs."
This issue is pushing me toward giving up too. The many other smaller annoyances of Capture One I can sort of live with, but the rudimentary, partly broken keystone tool is a permanent source frustration. On top of which comes their communication policy and, as a part of it, their refusal to provide any information on what they're doing about it, if they are in fact doing anything.
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"their refusal to provide any information on what they're doing about it "
was always the same, seems they hope when they do not take notice of the problem it does not exist... ...
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The addition of those new unusable thick white lines on a broken tool is not helping at all.
What a deception on a tool I had to use everyday.
Using an IQ4 150 that cost the price of a sporty car make the experience even more frustrating as I am stuck here. And at this point I think the communication between Phase One and Capture One is even more broken than the keystone tool....4 -
the clear pattern is that tools only important to a small groupe of user are totally neglected while everything which helps to upsell gets priority. in the past c1 was a tool primary used by professionals and advanced amateurs now it is turned into a platform to apply overpriced presets. knowing that 99% of their user will not care if the keystone tool does not work, if live view is improved, a better scaling algorithm is developed or NR and sharpening is brought to the level of competitors.
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After inquiring about the status of a long-standing support ticket regarding this specific issue two months ago, I received this reply from Capture One four days ago:
"The latest version of our software, Capture One 21 (14.1.0), is now available for download.
As you have a Capture One 21 license, we recommend installing this update, as it includes new features, general improvements, new camera support, and important bug fixes.
If you experience any difficulty after running this update, then please let us know and we will take a closer look at the issue.You can download Capture One 21 (14.1.0) here and view the release notes here."
At this point, I don't imagine they're being willfully obtuse.
CSP: "the clear pattern is that tools only important to a small groupe of user are totally neglected while everything which helps to upsell gets priority. in the past c1 was a tool primary used by professionals and advanced amateurs now it is turned into a platform to apply overpriced presets."
Unfortunately, this very much appears to be the case.
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I stopped using c1 for file processing after they broke the layer functionality, probably also to not confuse their presets customer and added a still unsolved mask demetia issue with version 20. tethered shooting is the last tie for me and also here I have to use the manufacturer software more often because c1 still does not support important functions provided by the camera. in the beginning long before spam mails and wannabe influencer pros and advanced amateurs helped voluntarily to promote c1 and so contributed to their success but today we are probably seen only as annoying and unimportant as the market has radically changed.
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If you stopped using C1, what app are you using to process files before importing in to PS or delivery?
Did you go back to LR?
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I never really stopped using ARC/LR as it always offered some advantage for certain tasks. applying keystone correction to hundreds of images was never fun in c1 for example and beside adobe I used other converter over the years too. now dxo is part of my toolbox because deep prime is simply amazing and not only useful for high iso shots, i also like that i can get a very smooth tonality / rendering impossible to reproduce with c1. this week adobe delivered something really useful for all kind of user while c1 came up with style brushes, they are even unable to develop the option to have presets for all tools, which is available in ACR/LR for ever ! on a very basic image quality level c1 is now far behind the competitors and there is absolut nothing that suggests C1 is able to compete on this field. the people running this company really work hard to make it obsolete and even when they can get the iPad version out in the coming months this will not change much.
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"even when they can get the iPad version out in the coming months this will not change much"
You mean this is what they're spending their time on? (Not that I'm all that surprised.)
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I did read this on the LL forum, a us p1 rep wrote that he aspects the iPad version this spring and us dealer are usual good informed. maybe we get positively surprised but first they are late to the party and second they have not build a groundwork as adobe has. I also guess that the reason why they do not even give a tiny hint is that they do not want that user get disappointed to early. maybe I´m too pessimistic but I only imagine a very stripped down version targeting instagram user....
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I'm sure they make more money on an iPad app than on fixing the keystone tool (etc.).
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of course, and they can now sell their expensive presets to the user who need it most....
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Of course.
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disconnected from the MF business they also have no need to keep the image of a high end solution up and can focus where the money is... making their investors but not us user happy
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Keystone tool is still broken in v14.4. As before, it seems to work fine for some images, and fails on others. Fail = makes Parallelograms instead of rectangles.
Also, the new thicker lines are worse for me - obscures too much when zoomed in for critical placement. Ideal would be options for thickness, color and opacity.
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UPDATE: depending on the image contend it ist still broken !!!!!
for me it seems fixed but I had to reset older corrections first, anyway this tool is an indicator of the sad state of this app from a professional perspective, how many years has it taken them to correct this bug ? their last "improvement" , bold white lines made usability worse, they seem more and more unable to understand professional user and are also unwilling to really improve things to catch up a little with dxo viewpoint or the adobe tools.
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