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Turning off Generating Previews?

Comments

13 comments

  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    SFA,

    The challenge is that C1's process logically needs the preview/thumbnail to be able to present a human readable image to the screen.

    I don't think that's entirely correct. C1 and the user can live without any unattended pre-generated preview file.

    Yes for the thumbnails, generating these (e.g. initially on import from the embedded jpg) can still be automatic, this should be super fast btw.

    The preview can be generated when needed, i.e. when the viewer is open and a or several thumbnails are selected.

    That's it. Easy.

    For the batch calculation of preview files using the default develop setting in C1 for the camera, this can be done by pressing a key for either the selected images or for all, if none is selected.

    3
  • Permanently deleted user

    I believe there would be nothing wrong with giving the users choice if they want the previews generated upfront when importing files, or later by using "regenerate previews". 

    Obviously, not everybody has time to wait for all the previews to be generated in case of time-sensitive jobs.

    3
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    The use case for me: When I need to open an archive or backup catalog or session (and I usually don't backup the previews) and I need to go to All Images to filter for specific images I do not need (nor want) hundreds and thousands previews to be generated. We are not talking about seconds here.

    I would keep the thumbnails if that would be possible. I would then like to select the images I want and have the previews generated by the existing menu option.

    2
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    I am more than convinced that this is really that easy. I don't even need to play the argument that we have been flying to the moon even 50 years ago and nobody could tell me that delaying the preview generation cannot be achieved in this software.

    2
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    +1

    I would also consider it very useful if the activities window would have a button to stop a preview generation process.

    The question then would be how to start or restart the process. I think an easy solution could be if this stop button in the activities window would disable the configuration option in the preferences but asks the user for confirmation before doing so, and if denied, C1 continues with the generation, e.g. (Do you want to stop the process and disable auto preview generation in the preferences?" yes/no, no other option, simple).

    The stopped queue does not need to be remembered, unlike the output process batch queue.

    Similarly, the function "Generate Previews" (F5 on WIndows) could ask the user to activate auto preview generation yes/no with the option "Don't ask me again".

    This way, users can run C1 in fully manual preview generation mode or stop the generation temporarily and restart easily with F5.

    1
  • Kenneth Rivera

    From the user interaction, we can make an option either in settings or in a menu with a check mark that says "Auto generate previews" and the alternative is right click an image or set of images and from a menu select Re-generate preview for selected images" then adds the to the queue in the activities window.

    I think this will be elegant, simple and user friendly alternative. I don't mind having 160 images with no preview until I manually trigger it.

    1
  • SFA

    BeO,

    There are 2 somewhat different considerations here I think.

    Your case is quite clear as an Archive choice and has merit in that use case.

    I would assume that your Catalogue or session retains all of the edit value files and simply dumps the Cache files since they may never be needed again.

    In the case of an archived catalogue the database will know of the files that it expects to find and also where they were last seen as well as any edits applied to them and archived.

    The same MAY be true for a session (but may not depending upon how the session was managed). 

    In any case, Settings and Cache folder for a folder of original images in a system do not have to relate to an existing session nor does an existing session necessarily have any permanently linked images and that offers the option for some alternative choices when wishing to "reactivate" archived images, with or without importing activity, to a session somewhere.

    In the case of an initial all new "import" the re is less to work with. Why would one wish to import a lot of files to C1 without making them "visible" by creating a preview file and with no immediate intention of editing them?

     

    Why not import them to a different tool as a complete set for storage and safety backup purposes. Then choose the 2 or 3 files one wishes to work on and import those to C1?

    I'm not really seeing the benefit of importing everything to C1 if one only wished to work with one or two of the images.

    Maybe if the C1 options included the "best document archive software in the world" it might make some sense. But that is not something that is claimed for the application. So why import at all and then choose not to include the steps of the standard C1 process that makes the images visible within C1?

    If the discussion is simply about managing import queues and, perhaps, scheduling import processes then I think that is a possibly valid topic, although recent hardware and software development might eliminate the perceived performance problem for most users in the very near future. Perhaps to the point where new users might wonder why anyone was worried about them in the past.

     

    But here we seem to be discussing whether or not to create Preview files in the first place.

    As far as I can tell the Preview file creation and use is completely central to the entire C1 processing methodology. Like it or not that's how this application is designed.

    Maybe better would be to allow a catalogue (it feels a little redundant to suggest this for a session) to have a "pending import" option so that the files can be uploaded and the catalogue made aware of their existence  - but that's it until at some point the user revisits the "Pending images" list and chooses a few for full import.

    That should be a lot less disruptive to existing processing than having a mix of both fully imported and fully active images and almost totally inactive images to deal with in the same database in real-time every time a user does anything with the database.

    In effect it would be something like a selective import and a return to the rest of the files in the folder or on the memory card later to import some more of the images. Maybe. The return to the other images may never happen. In which case the Catalog DB would have an even better clutter and size saving than importing and doing nothing with them at all.

    0
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi SFA,

    In any case, Settings and Cache folder for a folder of original images in a system do not have to relate to an existing session nor does an existing session necessarily have any permanently linked images and that offers the option for some alternative choices when wishing to "reactivate" archived images, with or without importing activity, to a session somewhere.

    Well, the Settings and Cache folder are always adjacant to the images (but anyway, the preview would not exist anymore for archive use case), ie. if you visit the images with any Session, if the Cache folder is empty, the previews will be generated. But thats a minor detail.

     

    Why not import them to a different tool as a complete set for storage and safety backup purposes. Then choose the 2 or 3 files one wishes to work on and import those to C1?

    A different (another) tool adds complexity for which I don't see advantages, on contrary, the original session or catalog can be used best to find what you are looking for (provided you can find the correct catalog or session in the first place, otherwise another tool, or "supercatalo" might  be helpful).

     

    To your second consideration, i.e. the very first import.

    I have no use for a new feature "pending import", the uncertainty whether or not the user really is going to import the rest of the images in the future complicates C1 and the workflow for the user, I'd rather spend the effort in implementing a speedy "exclude duplicates" function, maybe the duplicates even to be shown in the import dialog (on demand of the user). That should suffice those use cases for pending imports I currently can imagine.

    I do have a "pain" point more often than with archived/backup catalogs (which admittedly is not very often), and that has to do with the first import preview generation. And this is the main reason I would like to see this feature (I did not mention is before because it is complicated to explain).

    To put things into perspective, this is rather an annoyance than really backed up by actual lack of HW resources or time pressure on the job - which I just don't have (but I can image others). But who says that a feature cannot be desired to remove annoyances? After import of my new images I firstly look at the thumbnails in the browser. Even before culling I pick those which I want to auto-adjust. That's mostly exposure, levels and hdr, and I pick the ones which are obviously under- or overexposed. If they are halfway decently exposed I leave them alone, and especially night shots and bracketed images I never auto-adjust in a batch with the browser. The point is I cannot use the auto-adjust on import feature as this is not selective.

    Now, I can do this selective auto-adjustments only if I have thumbnails generated on import (and metadata) in the database or on disk, but don't need previews yet. in doubt, I have the raw files developed in under 1 sec. I'd rather choose to have auto-generated the thumbnails quicker.
    I am doing the auto-adjust procedure for many and sometimes most of my new images, which will again generate a new preview, and it just annoys me that I cannot stop the auto-preview-generation process in the background. Yes I can work even during that auto process (though my lap is getting hot sometimes in case I use my notebook) but it often annoys me if i have larger sets of new images.

    Now, I wish I could stop the preview generation, do my auto-adjustments, and  then a press a menu item (generate previews) C1 would create the previews which are not yet done or outdated. (btw, can I wish for a last modification date sort order?:-)

    I said I want to put this into perspective. This is not the most important or beneficial feature I'd like to see in C1, but one annoyance less. And I do have the impression that there are more than two users who would like to stop the procedure at least occasionally.

    Cheers
    Beo

     

    0
  • SFA

    BeO,

    I understand what you are describing. The challenge is that C1's process logically needs the preview/thumbnail to be able to present a human readable image to the screen. Whether from storage or regenerations, the files are deemed required. If one considers RAW files captured by full tethering, for example, the potential for an embedded jpg option alternative may not be available. (Not sure about that ...)

    So another approach that might satisfy the space saving requirement for backup/archival purposes would be to take the time to create a small preview file specifically for the backup/archive as part of that process.

    If required a larger preview file could be created, image by image according to need, if an archive or backup needed to be re-opened.

    Any cases where the age of the backup/archive meant that enough change had been made since it was last processed that total regeneration of thumbnails and previews was required anyway would clearly make such a provision redundant but I would guess that for most people such circumstance would be a very rare annoying activity.

     

    To me the main issue here seems to be the one that Kenneth outlined in the first post of the thread and, given the internal requirement of the current C1 design, I rather suspect that an enhanced form of import management to extend workflow option might be a more likely achieveable objective than some sort of significant re-design of the existing concepts. Especially for the reasons given for the request.

    0
  • Gustavo Ferlizi

    BeO, there has got to be a giant bloody mess of a codebase behind Capture One because it is not fathomable that they still haven't managed to pull this one through.

    I believe that I was begging for a preview pause button 5 years ago, and Grant was back there talking the same nonsense.

    For all I know PhaseOne is mining chia coin on our machines with this "integral part of the C1 process".

    0
  • Paul Camphuijzen

    I don't mind the generating-previews-window as long as I'm able to close it when I want to. Right now I can't*. It should certainly not block my access to the menu, as it does momentarily!!!
    *"You can close this window - any activities will continue...blabla"

    0
  • SFA

    No Preview and no thumbnail?

    The Preview is an integral part of the C1 process. Historically C1 arrived on the market as a RAW file converter.

    Absent the preview (and the thumbnail) there would seem to be little point in importing the images at all.

    All to save a few seconds on import only to require that time later when, somehow, one re-discovers the image (presumably not through C1 since there will be no preview and no thumbnail) and decides to take a look at it in C1. 

    -1
  • SFA

    Disable the Preview and probably 50% of the user base will start to complain that every time they want to edit an image they have to wait for a preview to be created.

    Leave it as it is an 50% of the user base will complain that they don't want any time taken during import to great to create previews - presumably for images they don't wish to edit immediately.

    Offer the option and another 50% of the user base will complain that they can never remember what to do if they see/do not see preview generation reminder messages and then suggest that the system is too slow anyway. 

    It's already a parallel activity and responds to user inputs if an image selected for editing during import does not yet have preview created. Other then, maybe, archives I don't really see an issue with storage volumes in the modern era.

     

    Still, best let Capture One answer that request in whatever way the management team see fit.

    -3

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