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C1 V22: Fehler Variante oder Klone?

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21 comments

  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Happy New Year Peter.

    Bugs can be reported using the submit a request link on top of this page.

    Variants of an image cannot be renamed, this is not bug. What you see (and potentially rename) is the file name of the raw or original image file. The variants refer to the same image file, which has just one file name.

    What you probably want is another, variant-specific name field.

    ICC profile in the tool "base characteristics" CAN be changed for each variant individually, at least in version 20. Changing it for one variant does not affect the other variants, is this different in v22?

     

     

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  • Peter Idler

    Happy new Year to you too!
    Yes I miss the possibility to give a variant a individual name.

    And yes ICC profiles can not be changed speratly for variants and clones in Version 22, this seems to be a bug

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    And yes ICC profiles can not be changed speratly for variants and clones in Version 22, this seems to be a bug

    I'm not sure why you find that to be the case. I just tried this because I was curious about what you said.

    Not the world's best photo, but one that came quickly to hand. The left hand one (Variant 1) uses the correct ICC profile for the camera (Nikon Z50). The right hand one has a completely different ICC profile, chosen pretty much at random, for a Canon EOS 7D Mk II. (Not sure why I would want to use that profile for the image, but it appears it can be done.)

    Ian

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  • Peter Idler

    weired! After a restart of CaptureOne it works again. Maybe it was a system related thing.

    But to name a variant different would be good.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    But to name a variant different would be good.

    Yes indeed, a variant specific name in addition t the file name, configurable to show it in the browser and viewer labels, would be very nice.

    Ian, Happy New Year to you too.

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  • C-M-B

    Da Varianten keine "echten" Kopien der Dateien sondern nur virtuelle Klone sind, kann man hier keine unterschiedlichen Dateinamen vergeben - immerhin gibt es keine "Haupt-Variante" oder "Original-Variante".

    -

    Since variants are no real copies but only virtual clones, it's impossible to change the name of individual variants. After all, there are no "main-variants" or "original-variants".

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  • Class A

    @C-M-B

    You seem to not consider the possibility for an image to have a name that differs from the filename the image data is associated with.

    Initially all image names could be identical to respective image file names but it would be possible to maintain individual names for images. One would then still have the constraint that all related virtual copies must share the same internal filename but there would be no reason why they could not be displayed using their individual names.

    Happy new year, everyone. 

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  • Peter Idler

    ... Gründe für die Vergabe von individuellen Namen für Varianten:

    1. zur schnellen Unterscheidung von subtilen Veränderungen.

    2. schnelles Auffinden bestimmter Veränderungen mit der Suchfunktion

    3. Unverwechselbarkeit der Varianten beim Export

    4. Schnellers Erkennen der Varianten in der Übersichtsansicht

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  • C-M-B

    Für solche Fälle gibt es 6 verschiedene "Sternchen-Tags" (0-5) und zusätzlich noch 8 weitere Farb-Tags.

    Das "Problem" ist eben, dass Capture One die Dateien in einem Browser darstellt, da kannst virtuelle Kopien nicht umbenennen.

    Was für User wie ein leicht zu lösendes Thema wirkt, bereitet enorme Kopfschmerzen, sobald es zum Programmieren kommt. Beispiel: wennst die "nicht-umbenannte" virtuelle Kopie löschst weiß das Programm nicht, was es machen soll. Willst dann bei einer neuen Kopie wieder den Ursprungs-Namen oder solls eine Kopie mit dem verbleibenden veränderten Namen erstellen? 
    Willst beim Export den Original-Namen der Datei oder einen neuen Dateinamen haben?

    Wennst wirklich unterschiedliche Namen willst kannst einfach eine echte Kopie der Datei erstellen und die dann so benennen, wie du es willst. Wennst dafür eine eigene Export-Einstellung anlegst, geht das sogar ganz einfach mit 1-2 Klicks. Brauch halt mehr Speicherplatz, aber logistisch ist das einfacher als bei virtuellen Kopien verschiedene Namen zu vergeben.

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  • C-M-B

    @Class A:

    Well this would only work with a semi-sophisticaed database but not in a "simple" browser environment. There's a reason why this doesn't work with OSX or Windows either. 

    It would be by far simpler to just copy the image file and rename it or to figure out a system using the avaibale colour and star tags to keep everything in order.

    Capture One is a RAW Editor, not an image database.

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  • SFA

    There are, potentially, IPTC metadata fields that could be partially re-purposed for a "Second Name" task if they were permitted in the displays for Thumbnails, Viewer, etc.

    However, in the database they would be Text fields and those fields tend to be of unlimited size (for practical purposes).  That is good, in that one can add as much "name" as one wishes but not so good when trying to manage the display of the information unless one considers and includes a lot of personalisation options that might satisfy some widely variant opinions about what should or should not be "reasonable".

    Of course, the guidance about usage of the IPC fields would also need to be adhered to and cross product compatibility could become an issue.

    The challenge may be somewhat simplified by assuming it would be for internal purposes only prior to Output processing, at which point the desired name for the used output purpose can be applied.

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  • Peter Idler

    well just try to export the variants with different ICC profiles and automatic name them with the ICC profile name ... if this is possible, tell me how.

    Than try to search  different variants with a name such as "original-name+used ICC profile" ... no chance.

    How can you do such a search with stars and colors? May be in a session, but for sure not in a big catalog.

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  • C-M-B

    Errr you know you can select colour tags and stars as search parameters, right? 

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  • Peter Idler

    sure i know that, but stars and color tags don't tell you after one year,  what they mean exactly. Don't you understand the reason for naming?

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  • C-M-B

    Then just duplicate the file and rename it. 

    It's a very, very, very, very special case and I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to 99,999% of all photographers.

    If you really need a specific keyword you should use Metadata like IPTC - Content. 

    As far as I know you can even use presets for Metadata.

    Then you can easily use the regular search which will also look for Metadata info. 

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  • Peter Idler

    ... but than you loose the advantage of variants and a lot of space on the harddrive.

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  • C-M-B

    You don't lose any advantage of variants, you can copy/paste/reset the settings at any time.

    But sure, HD/SSD-space will suffer.

     

    So why not use the Metadata to give your variants specific tags like "profilexyz.icc black white" or whatever?

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  • woefi

    Just for comparison, in the NLE world (FinalCut, DaVinci, Premiere) it is common practice to never rename your source files but instead (or additionally) use a "display name" which better describes what the contents of a clip are. Like "take 2 neutral", "take 2 warmer" as they are used in various variants throughout your project(s) 

    I could imagine an option in CO22 to display a second "name" field IN THE BROWSER, which would accept a short description. It would be stored in the metadata and could be used as a token when exporting.

    Until then all my exported files are just named IMG9999 v1, IMG9999 v2 which I will not remember correctly one month/year from now...

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  • woefi

    Capture One is a RAW Editor, not an image database.

    And no, Capture One IS an image database, Its advantage over single RAW editors like Photoshop or Affinity Photo is that it is also a database.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    I agree with Wolfgang, he proposed the same solution as I had in mind in my earlier post:

    a variant specific name in addition to the file name, configurable to show it in the browser and viewer labels, would be very nice.

    Also it should be clear that C1 (with catalogs) actually is an image database, not only a raw converter.

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  • Jochen Reimers

    Die Idee von SFA mit den IPTC Metadaten führt zum Ziel. 

    Mein Workflow für das Arbeiten mit verschiedenen Varianten
    (z.B. Variante 1: Farbbearbeitung, Variante 2: B&W-Bearbeitung):

    1. Ich „missbrauche“ dafür das Feld „IPTC-Status/Anleitungen“:

      - Für die Variante 1: IPTC-Status/Anleitungen: Color
      - Für die Variante 2: IPTC-Status/Anleitungen: B&W

    Das Schöne ist, hat man die Begriffe das erste einmal eingegeben, so werden sie beim nächsten Mal wieder vorgeschlagen sobald man die Anfangsbuchstaben eintippt. Das verhindert Rechtschreibfehler.

    2. Nun generieren ich für jede Variante ein intelligentes Album, z.B.:

    Damit werden die Varianten automatisch auf die jeweiligen Alben aufgeteilt.

    3. Um die unterschiedlichen Export-Dateien zu kennzeichnen, erweitere ich den Dateinamen mit dem Feld „IPTC-Status/Anleitungen“ (dies wird in den Verarbeitungsvorgaben eingestellt):

     

    Für die schnellen Unterscheidung von temporären subtilen Veränderungen nutze ich nicht die Varianten, sondern speichere die einzelnen Einstellungen als "Benutzerdefinierte Stile" ab.

    Der Vorteil ist, dass ich mit dem Cursor nur über die verschiedenen Stile fahren muss (nicht klicken), um die Veränderungen anzuzeigen und beurteilen zu können.

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