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Catalog Size in Capture One 22

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17 comments

  • OddS.

    > Phrank: I guess i have to write XMP sidecards

    My advice would be to investigate/learn how Photo Mechanic saves and reads metadata depending on image file type and carefully compare that to the way Capture One does metadata load and sync before you make assumptions on workflow for metadata exchange between the two applications.

     

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  • OddS.

    > Thomas Schneider: ...I start a new project with a session in C1

    And I never do that :-)

    I start a "fake session" in PM+ by ingesting to a folder <sessionname>/Capture and enjoy the full power of PM+ from start. I can ingest once or multiple times per project. Obviously, I cull and do my metadata work in PM+. Next I create a new session <sessionname> in C1. The existing subfolder Capture is not affected. C1 creates the missing subfolders (Selects, Output, Trash) and the <sessonname>.cosessiondb database file. Now it is a real C1 session where I do image post processing. Metadata is PM+ territory. I can add more images to the session any time using PM+ ingest, I do not use C1 import at all.

     

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  • Michael Seneschal

    tldr; it'll work but will be super slow... and converting the LR cat to C1 cat will take a few days (not hours or minutes). 

    I did the same thing. Used Lightroom since version 2 and every year I make a new catalog. But rather than leaving the previous years catalogs along, I combined them all into one giant archive catalog of about 900k photos. Thought process behind that was because it would be easier to search for photos in one catalog, rather than having to remember which year, then open that catalog to search. Anyways... I successfully converted the LR cat to Capture One (which took a few days). Now when I open my 900k+ photo Capture One catalog, it's super super slow... like 10 minutes to open, and about a minute after any click once it's loaded. I'm working from a 16GB M1 Mac Mini, and have image previews set to 800.

    So indeed, C1-22 definitely works with large catalogs, but it's just so slow. I have yet to find a DAM system for a large number of photos. Thinking about giving Photo Mechanic Plus a try.... but that's like 200 bucks, which isn't bad, but it's always something that's taking my money. 

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  • Phrank

    @All Thanks for the input.

    After Phase One announced to stop development at Media Pro (like Microsoft…), I got a little bit nervous, how could I run my DAM…

    I have switched from Aperture to Lightroom and again to Capture One, because I don't like to rely on rental software and not be able to look at my archive, If I stop paying… I've tried Photo Mechanic +, but wasn't so happy with the GUI and workflow. Probably I need more time than 30 days to test it.

    Okay it's a little bit overkill, but as said, now we got 2022 and we got super fast computers. Compared to my workflow 20 years ago I did all my DAM in iView Media Pro 20 + Photoshop / Nikon Capture NX and it was running okay.

    Recently I got a book project, where I need to search for images from the past 20 years. To jump in and out of the catalog is a nightmare, if you can't have a global search.

    Maybe I will try to split the catalogs now by genre or country, or give PhotoMechanic or Photo Supreme another try.

    I will post my experiences in case some DAM nerds are listening;-)

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  • Michael Seneschal

    I'm a DAM nerd and am interested in hearing your insightful input Phrank. Thanks!

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  • Phrank

    Hi Thomas,

    what workflow do you recommend to get all the meta data into PhotoMechanic+?

    I guess i have to write XMP sidecards for all images and sync it between Capture One and Photo Mechanic. So I will keep the RAW databases organised by years and master them from PhotoMechanic +.

    I'm realising again Media Pro was a really nice slim DAM software… R.I.P.

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  • Phrank

    Hi all, thanks a lot for your advises. Adjustments meaning the colour edits, or also the meta data IPTC stuff? This is in my opinion not really clear in Capture One.

    I hope, I haven’t opened the “pandoras box” / libraray / catalog… CameraBits was so kind to give me another 30 days demo code. So I will try again and try to rebuild my archive.

    Damn, I wish C1 could manage millions of photos without trouble;-)

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  • Phrank

    Thanks Thomas, I will give PM+ a try. After Portfolio, Cumulus, Media Pro, Nikon Capture, Aperture, Lightroom, just another new DAMn software;-) Capture One is the best for RAW process software and Photo Mechanic the best for DAM now. Hope they last a little bit longer.

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  • Phrank

    Hi EtMRS,

    thanks for suggestion. I know how to manage my pictures. Just was curious how you guys work with C1 and PM+. This why I have asked here to get some input. Happy this topic got some interest and I got some new infos. If Media Pro would have Smart Folders, I would stay forever on my old Mac Mini 2018 (MacOS 14) – at least for the DAM stuff.

    I really like the interface of C1, but it lacks DAM capabilities. PM+ has these DAM capabilities, but the interface isn't that nice. Well, so far what I've seen.

    My perfect DAM/RAW software would look like a mixture of Media Pro and Aperture with stacks, key images, place and IPTC date folders, but that’s another topic;-)

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi Phrank,

    9 months later, what is your experience and satisfaction level with your PM+ and C1 workflow? (assuming you still use both apps)

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  • Phrank

    Hi, thanks for the interest. Well, I'm still not excited about PM+. It's probably the fastest way to annotate images, but not so easy and nice to edit, view and search, what you need from a Digital Asset Management software. I was busy in the forum and bombed them with feature requests, but nothing has improved yet. They have told me probably in the next major upgrade. There I still prefer Media Pro, but that's not running on my new Mac… Then I have tried again Lightroom, but I have stucked in the import process now with Lightroom 12 to merge libraries in a million+ master library. It seems like it needs too much RAM to handle such big libraries.  Now I’m testing Peakto (who also makes library converters), a Digital Asset Management software solution for all my libraries from Aperture, Lightroom, Capture One and Media Pro, but it's pretty new… Only to organise libraries – no Digital Asset Management yet.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Thanks.

    Yeah, I'm also not overly impressed by PM+. Apart from a clunky interface and workflow I am missing C1 compatibility for structured keywords as well as metadata exchange for jpgs, tiffs etc, once the files are in the catalog PM doesn't read changed xmp files anymore. PM seems very suitable for the initial ingest fresh from the memory card, but that's it.

    EDIT: And from other PM forum posts I don't see ANY interest on their side in learning about C1, so C1 compatibility will not come, for sure.

    Photo Supreme and iMatch come to my mind, although I am still hesitant to go for an application  vendor which is run by just a single person.

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  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Though this original post was 9 months ago, since the thread has recent traffic, it's worth mentioning that via recent developments Capture One (the company) appears to be favoring their subscription model and defeaturing the perpetual license (fewer upgrades, less advantageous pricing, etc...) for C1. 

    Since the whole reason the OP wanted to switch from Lightroom was so that they didn't have to pay a rental fee every year to continue to access their existing library, one wonders if using Capture One for that reason is really still a good choice?  Capture One "says" that they will still offer a perpetual license, but they don't say for how long that model will last or be an attractive way to own C1.  What is clear is that they are prioritizing their subscription model and taking things away from the perpetual model.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Yes John.

    I work with C1 sessions since two years and currently migrating my old catalogs to the session concept, i.e. create the sidecar folder next to the original (referenced) images.

    I still will use the C1 catalog(s) but only for searches, edits will be done in sessions only and edited images re-imported into the catalog.

    Alternative catalog software is more than welcome, if it is at least as good or better, available via perpetual license or open-source, and long-term maintenance can be assumed.

    Being less dependent on C1 catalogs (sessions are more open than catalogs) is a preparation step for the worst case, which in my case is: the company will stop granting perpetual licenses or making it too cumbersome or too pricey.

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  • OddS.

    > Michael Seneschal: ...but that's like 200 bucks

    I believe there still is a 30 day free trial. 

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  • Thomas Schneider

    Hi Phrank,

    I had the same problem:
    For each year a new catalog became difficult to manage in C1. I now do the management entirely with PhotoMechanic+ and can highly recommend it. At first I wasn't completely convinced by the interface, but as I go along it becomes clear that it is optimized for photo management. Used in conjunction with C1 or any other raw developer, it's a perfect master tool.

    Greetings

    Thomas

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  • Thomas Schneider

    Hi Phrank

    It is good to use xmp sidecar for raw files. (for jpg files the metadata is written directly into the file). At the beginning the additional file bothered me, but they make sense and it is easier and faster to write a small file than to always open the original image file.

    The first thing to do is to get into the habit of editing all metadata only in the DAM (PM+ or other). C1 only reads them and then takes them over when exporting. You can leave your structure as it is best for you, except that you add a step where you specifically enter only the metadata.

    For example, I start a new project with a session in C1, import all images with C1. Then I switch to PM+ and edit all the metadata of the new images. C1 automatically makes an update. I prefer to select the images in C1 (Color and rating). In this case I have to write back the new metadata with Sync Metadata command. (C1 I use with the preference "Auto Sync sidecar XMP" set to "Load". My experience with "Full Sync" was that at some point I had a mess because I couldn't remember where I changed what metadata.)

    At the end of the year I collect all sessions in a catalog. But over the years, managing the C1 catalogs became difficult and tedious. Now I have the same structure in PM+. For each year a catalog with previews of 3200 px size, so I can view them on my monitor in full resolution without having the original file online. In PM+, the catalogs with previews in such high size are much faster and more efficient than in C1. I can manage my entire archive at once, without much effort and waiting. I search for the images in PM+ and I can immediately jump to C1 and edit them there.

    My whole workflow is not necessarily focused on speed. I don't have to review and edit thousands of images under time pressure. But a good organisation saves a lot of time and helps to avoid frustration.

    Greetings

    Thomas

     

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