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Color off when going Round trip from C1 - PS - back to C1 TIFF adobe RGB

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14 comments

  • simen eriksrud

    Same problem here. The same tiff file has a slightly more red in C1 compared to Photoshop, Affintiy Photo and Preview on Mac. Have tried all the proof setting under"view", but no change. Makes me worried...

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  • Robert Farhi

    The only way to process with colours when going from one software to an other is to work as far as possible using a very large colour space, such as Prophoto RGB. And to have this same colour space in C1 (recipe) and Photoshop (colours...). The conversion to a smaller colour space (Adobe RGB or sRGB) should be done in the very end, and depends upon the further use : sRGB for social networks or web, Adobe RGB (or larger) for printing.

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  • simen eriksrud

    But if you open the same identical Tiff file in C1 and PS it doesn't look the same. How do you explain that? It is the only software that differs from the other I have on my mac (affintiy, preview etc)

     

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  • Robert Farhi

    How do you open your TIFF in PS ? Do you use ACR (which is a different engine from C1) or do you skip it ? A same TIFF, opened with the same colour space and skipping ACR in PS, looks exactly the same on my calibrated display.

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  • Geoff Lacy

    @Robert Farhi, yes, when exporting from C1 to PS as a PSD or exporting from C1 to PS as a TIFF have matching color. With both programs, C1 and PS open, on my calibrated IPS P3 5K monitor -- both images appear identical in the two applications.

    YOU CAN TEST THIS YOURSELF;

    Now in Photoshop, no edits, save with profile adobe RGB, in the following file formats;

    1.PSD
    2. JPG
    3. TIFF

    Return to C1 and the PSD and JPG and look identical to the RAW file in colorimetrie, but the color in the TIFF file is way off. This shouldn't happen. The tiff file image has a green cast, saturated shadows, more contrast, darker blacks... etc.

    The base characteristics in C1 tiff file are; ICC Profile "From File (adobe RGB)" same as the PSD file but the color is not correct in the tiff file inside C1 (zoom 100% doesn't change anything).

    Within C1, selecting "Open with... PS" and opening the tiff file -- the colors are good in PS again. It's only viewing the TIFF file in C1 that the colors are off.

    TEST 2

    Now within C1, export the tiff file and PSD file to JPG, I used a built in C1 export recipe. The PSD and TIFF file should be identical but the color in the TIFF file remains off, ugly, not matched. 

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  • Geoff Lacy

    With color off for Tiff files when going round trip from C1 to PS --

    My current workaround is to export as PSD and save as PSD. PSD files can be viewed in C1 and can be exported (resized and or saved as JPEG ) and seem to retain the same color unlike TIFF files. For those of you who use other editors, I don't know what to say.

    So for example if using Topaz Labs, or Nik effects, instead of going directly into those applications from C1 export as tiff, I export from C1 as PSD, then use the filter Topaz or Nik and save the result as a PSD inside PS. The resulting file retains the correct color unlike the TIFF file.

    Again, exporting Tiff from C1 is not a problem, the color matches in PS - It's when I close the Tiff file and view in C1 that C1 skews the colors (Opening the tiff back in PS and the color is fine again, matching the original color). Tiff is open source and the color tables shouldn't be skewed in C1, but they are seemingly for Tiff files.

     

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  • Gerald Senesac

    Your workflow sounds overly complicated. Maybe it's just the way you've explained it? I've read and re-read your posts several times and I guess I'm struggle to follow. Why are you bringing a PSD into C1? There is no use for it. 

    Edit your RAWs in C1, export (not open in PS) as a TIF, open in PS skipping Bridge and ACR. Retouch and etc., save only as a TIF, then bring back into C1. Make your final exports to TIF, JPG ect. I do this all day everyday with artwork reproduction (density, tone and color are critical) with no problems. 

    Only export uncompressed TIFs when round tripping. Only create JPGs on final export. 

    You can even write an action in PS for this– once your edits in PS are complete:
    Record> Save as .psd into your edit folder> flatten image> Save as .tif into your session capture folder> close image.
    You can then run this on all images open and completed in PS. You'll have a saved layer file into the edit folder, a TIF back into C1 and then close themselves. 

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  • Geoff Lacy

    Sorry you didn't understand. My workflow is as simple as it gets.

    1. Raw edits in C1

    2. Output to PS for layer composition and save. The resulting saved file (tiff or psd) is viewable in the same Capture folder in C1.

    I explain in my post that if you EDIT WITH... within C1 (essential export, it's just nomenclature) and choose TIFF as your export setting, then edit and save the file in PS - The resulting tiff file is viewable in C1, BUT the color is off in C1. Strangely, if you OPEN WITH... the tiff file and view in PS, the color is ok, close the tiff file in PS and view in C1 and the color is not ok. Copy the file in PS before closing so you can see the two files open in both applications at the same time and the color is off when creating a tiff in C1.

    This is not the case when EDIT WITH... in C1 is used with PSD as the export setting. The color is fine, same file, same settings, copying and viewing both files in PS and C1 side by side on the same (x rite calibrated) monitor.

    Note for testing, I didn't actually edit the file. There is no problem with PSD files so it's not my monitor or system. The Tiff file color is fine inside PS, tiff file color inside PS matches the raw file color in C1 with applications side by side. However the same Tiff file color CHANGES inside C1 and DOES NOT match the same Tiff file color in PS.

    Adobe 16 bit tiff IS my final export - I never use jpg. I print large format 16 bit tiffs direct to epson SC P9500, that is until something changed. I can prove it very simple and easy to reproduce over and over. Is it my system / I don't think so since I re-open the tiff file in PS and color good again and no problems with PSD.

    You bring up an interesting question though with the tiff file compressed or uncompressed. I will test today... (it could matter with the color byte order (Mac vs PC) which C1 doesn't discern in it's dialog box.) 

    Thank you for a lead that might be fruitful...

     

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  • Gerald Senesac

    Hi Geoff,

    Just so I understand your workflow. It goes like this:

    Raw edits in C1> Select 'Edit With' Photoshop> Edits pixel-image within Photoshop> Save (which creates a TIF in C1).  You are then viewing color discrepancies on the resulting TIF when viewed in C1. However the same TIF re-opened in Photoshop is color accurate?

    I've experienced this exact problem. I still maintain the issue is coming from your workflow, particularly 'edit with Photoshop' from within C1. I believe that when the Raw files goes directly from C1 into Photoshop and is saved back into C1 there is a bug. Or more likely C1 is applying a curve to the resulting TIF? 


    Did you try the workflow I suggested before? If not, I would recommend again trying this:

    Raw edits in C1> Export as a 16bit uncompressed TIF to a local folder> Bring that TIF into Photoshop for further edits> Save the layered file for future use as a .psd into your work folder>  Flatten then 'Save As' the final image into your capture folder, again as an 16bit uncompressed TIF. This will automatically load the new TIF into C1 and you'll find it matches your initial RAW file, minus whatever edit's you've made in Photoshop of course. 

    This is my work around to what I images is the same problem you're experiencing. Try it and I think you'll find your issue resolved. 

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  • Geoff Lacy

    Hi Gerald,

    Raw edits in C1> Select 'Edit With' Photoshop <<EDIT: TIFF>> > Edits pixel-image within Photoshop> Save (which creates a TIF in C1).  You are then viewing color discrepancies on the resulting TIF when viewed in C1. However the same TIF re-opened in Photoshop is color accurate?

    << Yes, this is correct. Though, the dialog box in C1 “Edit with…” with TIF chosen has (ZIP) compression as the default. 

    Did you try the workflow I suggested before?  << I am testing “uncompressed now” >>

    If not, I would recommend again trying this:   << TESTING UNCOMPRESSED NOW… >>

    ////

    My workflow: // because it’s nice share and see how others work!

    ———————

    After I’ve done all my raw edits, color work in C1… I jump to photoshop.

    C1 Edit with… TIF > jump to Photoshop  (edit image in photoshop)   // Because tiff has larger file limits

         After I have fiinish editing in PS…

         1. I SAVE TIF FILE WITH LAYERS: Photoshop edit with layers Save As… to Capture folder inside Session folder with _PLF.tif suffix.  Don’t close image.  // Photoshop Layer File ( _PLF )

         2. I SAVE TIF FILE AS SINGLE LAYER: Photoshop, same image file, Select all Layers, Merge down. Save as… same location with _PSL.tif suffix.  Close both image files. // Photoshop Single Layer.

    PLF - the letter “L” has one horizontal line at the bottom or base layer. the “F” has two horizontal lines or layers up high, so I read it is a Photo going from one Layer to many Layers. 

    PSL - simply Photoshop Single Layer

    My naming intervention, take it or leave it.

    Add versioning suffix if necessary; _PLF_v3

    Add Output suffix; _PSL_o_FB

    _PSL_o__social_Instasquare

    _PSL_o__print_1m x 2m 300ppi_Han Baryta

    Say there was a visual error in a file; I can delete;

    . all social media files “_social_”, or

    . all print files “_print_”, or

    . ALL output files ”_o_”

    Yes, I create and extensively use advanced actions scripts with .javascript in Photoshop.

     I hope using tiff ZIP is the issue and simply using tiff UNCOMPRESSED is the solution — it’s still a bug that needs fixed. Photoshop writes extra header information to it’s tiff (ZIP) files including (Save as Tiff…, TIFF options…) plus options for the the pixel order and byte order. My guess is C1 is reading this header info wrong or not reading this header information at all and making assumptions.

    Here I go testing again for problems I didn't create.

     

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  • Anthony Venegas

    Hi, I am having this issue.

    Was there ever a solve that you came across?

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  • Geoff Lacy

    Anthony, I “Edit image” with Adobe Photoshop.
    Settings; Adobe rgb, 16 bit. 300ppi or 600ppi (I shoot fuji 100Mpix and print large format up to 2 meters)

    ==> Image format: Adobe PSD
    color match is perfect 👍🏻 compared to TIFF looking like it applied a burn filter.
    This was several software upgrades ago and I have not used tiff since.

    The new problem you’ll have is your files will explode in Photoshop and you’ll have to save as PSB —- and .psb files does not show up in Capture one.
    What I do; I work as I normally would in a PSD file saving all my layers etc. But save as a PSB (my files always Big). Then Image Duplicate…(merge layers checked), Save a copy.
    ie. Workflow:
    Raw in C1 > Edit in PS.
    Settings PSD, Adobe rgb, 16 bit 300ppi.
    Edit in PS as normal > Save As PSB (usually, I work in medium format)

    Then also Duplicate image… (merge layers) and Save a copy… (psd, jpeg) so that the file shows in Capture one.

    I use a naming scheme;
    Image 1234.raw > edit in Photoshop and save as Image 1234.psb
    Image 1234.psb doesn’t show in C1.
    So, in PS, Resave as Image 1234 psb2.psd.
    This shows in C1 and if you want to edit just use Show in Finder (Mac) and arrow to the PSB file and open that. The psd file is just a place holder and I make crop versions from that single layer file for social media.
    Written on my phone and hope this is clear. Haha

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  • Geoff Lacy

    I use save as PSB (if necassay) and resave as flattened Image_1234_psb2.psd as the name scheme to remind me in capture one to go look for a psb file if there is one and I want to edit the layered file. I’ve been doing this for years and the workflow works for me.

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Uncompressed TIFF did not solve the issue?

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