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(Very) slow start up time

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51 comments

  • PataFP

    The problem is not the amount of pictures that might be in the last folder I was working on. The problem is that CO checks every file in the catalog every time I launch it. It takes 1s for each 1k file, so it's a full minute for a 60k photos catalog. LR takes 3s to open an equivalent catalog in my computer. It's just bad programming, give me an option just to check the files in the folder I'm working with and I'll be happy. It would have the same effect of having multiple catalogs but with just one catalog. I frequently browse through photos taken years ago (and i want them all in the same place, 1 or 2 clicks away) so having multiple catalogs is not convenient. Besides, what's the point of having a catalog function if I can't place more than 3k files on it?

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  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    PataFP – I see a reference to NAS early in this thread. Is that where your files are stored? If so that is likely the culprit of slow startup. I have a catalog of 66K images. The catalog resides on internal SSD. The referenced images reside on external SSD with Thunderbolt connection. It starts up in seconds. Speed of storage makes a significant difference in Capture One's performance.

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  • PataFP

    Hi Walter! Another user was the one with the files in a NAS. I have my files in internals SSD's, the catalog files are stored in the C: disk (WD black sn750 500gb NVMe) and the photos in the D: drive (WD blue 2tb SSD SATA3). Again same configuration as LR, LR is functional 3s after launching it. CO takes a full minute (the interface is functional right away I launch the software, but I can't select any photo until it checks every file/ reconstructs the file hierarchy. The D: disk usage is at 100% during this time.

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  • PataFP

    And what bothers me most is the lack of support from CO, I had an open ticket for a year and they suddenly close it without letting me know. I would prefer a communication saying that they couldn't figure it out or whatever.

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  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Thanks PataFP for that info. Capture One is aware of opportunities for performance improvement. I have no specific details on what that might cover or when we might see changes. Capture One generally doesn't tell us much about these plans before they become a reality.

    We also have to consider the difference between Windows and macOS. Yes LR does it differently. That's probably because LR isn't doing that check on startup. If Capture One skipped that or allowed us check a preference to skip it perhaps we would see similar startup time?

    Let me ask this – how would you feel if this was done on closing a catalog vs opening a catalog? I'm guessing they do this on opening a catalog because they don't want to trust that the user hasn't moved files via Explorer or Finder and they need to validate that the files are still where they last thought they were. If they do that in a separate "thread" that runs in the background then maybe the startup experience would feel different.

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  • PataFP

    It is understandable that CO needs to check the catalog file integrity once in a while, but I think it's not necessary at every start up. A checkbox for doing it at user desire would be a better option. For me it is completely unnecessary, I do not manage my photos outside CO. I import them in CO to a desired folder/subfolder, i delete the ones I don't like inside CO and any change in the folder hierarchy is made inside CO. So for me is no need for daily checks. (It could be once a week o close like the back up message on close)

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  • TomLondon

    Hi Walter, 

    I do not want to indulge in speculation how C1 works internally, but my observation is

    • When starting C1, in the library tab you can see how directories are added. C1 does not show the current directory in the right order until the last directory has been added, and it does not react to any mouse clicks on the pictures. This process takes forever, in my case more than 3 minutes (on an i7-1280 with Samsung 990-PRO).
    • This is independent of whether the picture folders are unfolded or not. Even if I collapse the main directory, it still seems to takes the same time. whether the fag for showing pictures in sub-directories is on or off.
    • I was told by support some time ago the issue was resolved; however, it looks like it either was not, or it returned after some time.
    • C1 offers an integrity check when exiting the programme. It appears slightly counter-intuitive if it would really do one at start-up as well. I agree with others that iterating over the entire directory tree on startup would just be really bad programming.

    It would really be nice if this could be addressed some time. Otherwise - well, I have to get a coffee whenever starting C1, can't be healthy in the long run...

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  • PataFP

    SFA, I've just read the edits you made in your post. There is no noticeable differences in performance between LR and CO in my setup. I've paid the subscription for a year in a black friday offer just to try it. But I prefer CO over LR: I like the results I get and I'm comfortable with the user interface and the workflow I have developed on it. I really hope this will be addressed one day, but I will no longer pay for a new version of CO until it gets solved.

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  • Slovakbrit

    I would just like to add my few pennies worth, I actually agree with most of what has been said above, I moved backwards to Capture One 21 version 14.3.1 a year ago and I have no regrets as I pointed out earlier on in this post. My catalogue took 48 secs to load on C1 Version 23 a year ago now on C1 version21 it take less than 10 secs, how can that be an improvement plus I had the same experience as patafp with an open ticket that magically closed with no communication, I paid them for two versions which are now unusable unless I want to wait forever for a simple loading task, what did they change after C1 21 I have to ask and total silence will be the answer, this is what happens when you stop being interested in the little people......sad eh!

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    PataFP - are you misunderstanding what they are suggesting? It's not a suggestion to use a catalog of only 1K images. But if you have a catalog of 50k images (I have roughly that number too) it certainly works quicker of you don't leave it so that it opens in All Images. I don't often work in all images - I may well be working in my most recent imports, or in an album of wildlife photographs or whatever. If I close Capture One with that album selected, that is where it picks up when I re-open it, and it is quicker. It is certainly worth trying that, as they suggest, and seeing whether it makes a difference.

    (I agree that catalog performance isn't great, and I too would like to see it improved. However, it is worth trying out a suggestion that may make it a bit better.)

    Ian

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  • PataFP

    Hi Ian! I never work on all images, never said that, what i said is that until CO reads every file on avery folder it wont work but it has nothingto do with which folder was selected upon close. I Usually leave CO in last imported or on a certain folder, which typically has no more than 200-300 images on it. They did suggested to me to try with smaller catalogs (I think they did it just to try if it works well that way, not as a daily thing tho)

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  • PataFP

    To clarify some things, at the end of 2022 I opened a ticket and have multiple conversations with the support team. I've tried everything they've suggested and I sended them log files and everything they asked for. They concluded that it was a bug and promised a solution, they even said that the ticket won't get closed after asking multiple times how it was going.

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  • T.G.

    SFA

    you wrote "Does Lightroom REALLY load 10 times faster? Or does it provide just enough to make you think that it has loaded everything, all ready to edit, but actually is doing just enough to look fast?"

    It would be totally fine for me if C1 would go on with the work in the background. At the moment I can't do anything, i can't see edits or edit pictures, I cant see the colors I assigned to the pictures. From starting until I can edit I have to wait about 1:40 minutes (currently 26k pictures). Keep it running is not a solution for me because I need to back my catalogue up now and again.

     

    I have the same experience as PataFP, it's not faster if I collapse the file tree or if I close C1 when I am in an album.

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  • PataFP

    So, I've decided to roll back to CO21 (14.4.1) as others users did, created a catalog and loaded all my pictures on it. From start it ran faster (it took just 3 minutes to import the +50k photos, CO22 and 23 takes at least 20 minutes to do the same). Now, if I launch CO21 after the splash screen CO21 is fully functional (it is instantaneous, as soon as the interface appears on screen it shows the last picture I was working on and can do whatever I want right away. I regret paying for CO23. Gotta check if there are some functions I will miss from 23, but the performance in 21 is waaaay greater. I don't know how but they screwed things up in 22.

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  • Slovakbrit

    Well PataFP you have just backed up my conclusions and as I said 2 days ago they still do not come up with a reason as to why it all got wrecked in one change, yet I had no problems with any version going back to C1 8 which was my first.

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  • Nikodem Binienda

    Sadly going back in versions does not work for everyone. I have Nikon z8 and support for it was added just mid last year. From catalogue management perspective Lightroom I had always been so much better than c1 so I can definitely recommend switching to it to everyone except… z8 users. Handling of raw files from z9/z8 is so slow in lightroom, terrible performance they did not fix in more than a year. So I made yet one more attempt to switch to c1 (I have been trying since c1 v6). It crashes sometimes when processing data and call stacks are indicating rather slow programming techniques like reflection etc. Plus scanning of all folders should not be done on every startup and definitely should not prevent usage of the software. Perhaps there is a way to disable it somehow?

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  • TomLondon

    I also noticed last night that loading large folders inside the catalogue now appears to be very, very slow - a folder with 3000 pictures takes several minutes to open.

    This is really all a bit strange. It appears that many things which you would expect to run in parallel are sequentialized in recent C1 versions.

    Given PataFP identified a specific version after which performance was broken, it should not be that difficult to find out what went wrong, and fix it? We can't stay with an old version forever, and the performance issues seem to become worse and worse.

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  • PataFP

    I hope they reach to this thread and try to solve the issue (and release a path for all version from 22 to the latest release). It's clear that there is something wrong, CO22 and CO23 are the same software as 20 and 21 with additional features, but the engine is the same.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    I hope they reach to this thread and try to solve the issue

    It would be best if you request support and provide the requested log files:

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

     

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  • PataFP

    I've already done that. After a year of promising they would solve the bug, they've closed the ticket without saying a word (and this seems to be an extended behavior to others users), I then opened a new one and they wanted me to explain everything again from the start, suggesting me the same useless things. So, the thing is not only the lack of support, but the lack of tracking the things that are wrong in your own software.

     

    If there are various users reporting the same bug for over 2 years, they should be aware of this quite some time ago. The fact that they don't give a s*** about it tells a lot of their business model. Perhaps they will release a patch in future versions to solve this bug and they want us to pay for it. If it will be the case, i will no longer pay a penny for this software.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    PataFP,

    I feel with you. They introduced quite a few regression defects, from my observation starting with 15.3/15.4 onwards. And it took quiet a while until they got fixed, some are still not. And I am talking only about those I reported, other customers probably found other regression issues too.

    Together with the perpetual license bug fix policy this is a nogo for me. Even if I were willing to pay another perpetual license price just for regression bug fixes, or even if I were on a subscription, as long as they don't fix them (or even refuse to fix them on priority, I just recently got a reply that they don't), I have no interest anymore in sponsoring their business. Money is all that counts for the C1 management and/or stakeholder, not customer satisfaction.

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