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Please make it possible to dynamically / non-destructively define a Color Range, as it is already possible with Luma Range.

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54 comments

  • Jack W
    Admin

    Hi André Fröhlich 

    First of all, thank you for getting in touch with us and for providing your feedback. We really appreciate it.

    I'd just like to point out that you can certainly create a mask on multiple images at once when using the "View selected color range" and subsequently making a mask from this selection. If you do this with multiple images selected, you should get a unique mask per image.

    Does that solve anything for you or make things easier?

     

    1
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi Jack, 

    You can define a color range e,g. in the Advanced Color Editor and then copy this setting to the other images. For each image you then can "create (a) masked layer from selection" via the tool's menu. (regardless of the checkbox "View selected color range").

    Copy to other images is the only use case André has explicitely mentioned, I am not sure this is actually the only use case for him.

    But for me this known technique is not solving the principal weakness (and this use case not the rmain eason why I upvoted) because the mask is not easly amended after the creation because it is rasterized, and not parameterized. 

     

     

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  • André Fröhlich

    Hi Jack Williams,

    Thanks for this tip, but unfortunately this is not a viable solution for me.

    I don't want to create the mask for several images at once, but to have a possibility to define a dynamic mask based on the color selection which is not rasterized. 

    For this reason I also mentioned the Luma Range function as a comparison which also does not create a rasterized mask.

    This allows for non-destructive workflows as well as great flexibility along with the copy/apply function for adjustments as well as custom styles.

    1
  • André Fröhlich

    There is also a now archived request by Prasad Palaniyandi describing the same feature. 

    See: https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360013694897-New-Color-Range-feature-along-with-Luma-Range-for-color-based-non-destructive-layer-mask

    The archived request also contains a mockup showing a possible solution for the user interface. This is almost identical to what I had in mind. 

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  • Prasad Palaniyandi

    André Fröhlich Thanks for referring my request. I have not only submitted this request but also discussed in fb forums and C1 live sessions. 

    Many of the users don't get the power of having "Color Range" combined with "Luma Range" tool. My idea for "Color Range" is to "dynamically" refine the selection based on Hue and Saturation similar to "Luma Range" which refines the selection based on luminosity. Combining these 2 tools, precise selection can be achieved "dynamically" based on Luminosity + Hue + Saturation.

    When ever I bring this topic, I always get suggestion to use "Advanced Color Editor" or "Magic Brush" to create mask based on Color. But the limitation is that the resultant mask generated by both of these techniques are "rasterized" or "static" which means if I want to refine the mask based on color I need to start over. 

    So when we have "Color" and "Luma" Range tools, following 3 steps will help to create precise Luminosity + Hue + Saturation based  "dynamic" mask.

    Step-1 : Create initial selection: Filled or Partial using Brush or Gradient Mask.

    Step-2: Refine selection based on Luminosity using "Luma Range" Tool

    Step-3: Refine selection based on Color (Hue & Saturation) using "Color Range" Tool

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    +1, Prasad

    LR has this now, right?

    0
  • Prasad Palaniyandi

    BeO

    Yes...I think I submitted ahead of LR implementation IIRC, but I may be wrong..

    Interestingly ACDsee implemented as part of 2022 release exactly what I submitted ahead of it's release ... :)

    1
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    I like the C1 Advanced Color Editor. Interestingly to see ACDSee does so too.

    And yes, C1 is behind ACDsee in that regard, this request from André is not the first time somebody requested it from C1.

    1
  • Mike Escoffery

    Yes Please. Dynamic Masks based on definable parameters are essential. Static Masks are not helpful in the current modern AI driven world. Not only do I want dynamic colour masks, but also AI Subject Selection that can also be used as a layer mask which updates automatically (dynamically) from image to image. 

    C1 Tools are great. I want to keep using them. But my processes have become very slow because C1 doesn't keep up with modern advancements in technology, and thus the editing process is still very manual. I want the precise control I get in C1, but with the speed of applying edits to a catalogue very quickly.

    1
  • Danny Batista

    It should hopefully be very apparent to c1 team, how important it is for us to be able to quickly and precisely modify our masks and the need for those masks to be dynamic and work fluidly with other mask refinement tools like (subject selection, luma masks, etc). This needs to be logged!

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  • Julien Apruzzese

    +100000

    1
  • Kevin Robbins

    YES! I just created a post requesting this feature and then found this. This would be an amazing feature to have!

    1
  • Prasad Palaniyandi

    C1, Please have it as part of one of the 2024 release......

    0
  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Yes 1000% for this. Dynamic masking on color range would be fantastic.

    0
  • Christian G
    Product Manager

    Hi all, 

    I am looking a bit deeper into this request, to further understand the audience and intended usage of Color Range masking. 

    I would really like to hear how You would apply such a feature in Your current workflow, and how you are trying to do it today, either inside CO, or with other tools. 

    Also, would a grouping of Hue, Saturation and Lightness/Luma make sense for You?

    Thanks, and looking forward to Your responses.

    1
  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    For me I would like to select by color range and apply other adjustments. I want to copy-apply that layer to another image and the dynamic color range does the right thing to the applied image. Rasterized masks don't adapt. A color range (similar to luma range) adapts.

    1
  • Christian G
    Product Manager

    Thanks Walter, 

    Can you come 2-3 concrete usecase where you could use this ?

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  • Julien Apruzzese

    In fact, the goal would be to not restrict the hue and saturation values selection to the Color Editor tool. It would be awesome to be able to dynamically select hue, saturation and luminosity on the layer (as the Luma does it actually).

    You can inspire you from the Davinci Resolve software.

    1
  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Christian-G - there are infinite use cases in product, portrait, landscape, fashion, commercial photography. PS provides this for a reason. Give us one less reason to keep our Adobe subscription!

    2
  • Christian G
    Product Manager

    Hi WalterRowe

    I'm well aware of how it could be potentially be used, but would really like to hear real-world usages.

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  • Daniel Price

    I primarily shoot architecture.  Where various parts of the building are often clearly defined by color (walls with distinct colors, floors, accents, etc) and less by luminosity.  Being able to leverage this across images of the same subject would be a MASSIVE time savings for me.

    How I get around this today:

    • Copy adjustments from one image to the next
    • Clear the masks
    • Recreate the masks (however, doing so is never quite the same as the previous image)

    This would ensure a higher level of consistency for me.

    3
  • Christian G
    Product Manager

    Thanks Daniel Price

    How do you find that the new AI masking could help on these selections? 

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  • Daniel Price

    Christian-G
    AI masking slightly speeds up part of the third step, sometimes. However, that third step must be repeated for every color/layer mask, which often means it's done 6+ times per image.

    The problem I have with or without AI, is that it won't be the same across each image (slightly different ranges selected based on the precise spot I click).  I often waste a lot of time trying to get the selection right across images, so that they have a consistent look.

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  • Prasad Palaniyandi

    Christian-G - Good to see an update from Project Management Team... Appreciate and Thanks very much for that..

    Probably I was the one among the first who submitted this idea (#60452) in 2020 which was accepted and submitted to the Project Management Team by "Lily". But unfortunately now it is achieved. I had been voicing out for this feature for long time and asked many times when ever I go opportunity in both live sessions and in FB groups.

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/requests/60452 

    Reason:

    When I edit Sunrise and Sunset shots, I use the Luma Range to refine the initial mask to isolate the Colorful Sky from the Rest - Subject, Foreground and others etc. Since the sky has pretty much the same luminance across, many times it becomes difficult to isolate regions with different colors due to smooth transitions between colors. I can create a hue and saturation based mask using "Create Masked Layer From Selection" in ACE, but as it is a "Static" mask, I have to recreate new layer mask from ACE again if I need to make a change. In this scenario after refining the initial mask based on luminance, invariably i was looking for a mechanism to refine further based on "Hue" and "Saturation". I can use the Magic Brush, but again it also produces a "Static" mask which always requires back and forth setting changes (Tolerance & Refine Edge) to get the mask I want. Since Range masks are "Dynamic" they can be refined at any point of time. Due to the "Self-Feathering" nature of "Range" masks, results are always precise and perfect based on "Luminance+Hue+Saturation".

    Added few sample pictures where I have smooth transition between color with similar luminance.

    Similar situation to edit Spring flowers/outdoor macros, fall foliage, snowscape, birds especially multi colors like hummingbird etc..

    Both "Luma Range" and "Color Range" tool combo will not only make the Masking tool set powerful and flexible but also eliminate the trip to 3rd party tools..

    Luma and Color Range Mask tools can have independent UI as shown below or in single UI with 2 tabs like Color Balance and Color Editor UI.

    I would be happy to explain in detail if I am reached out.

    Design Mockup:

    Samples Images:


    3
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi Christian-G,

    The requested feature comes into play whenever you would want to create a mask with the Advanced Color Editor (ACE) and you have several images of the same subject which are slightly different, e.g. different point of view, focal length, shutter speed etc. and you want to copy layer adjustments over to these other images. That means if you still have real world use cases from the time that old feature (create layer from mask) has been implemented (minus those cases which are better served with new masking features like the AI masks) then they are still applicable.

    (As an aside, it also has a benefit in that parameterized masks (filled layer, gradient etc) as opposed to brushed or rasterized masks have very small .comask files)

    Let's make a real world example (Prasad, I hope you don't mind that I use one of your images).

    I have a series of images of this nice river shot which differ so much that I cannot copy over a rasterized mask. I want to adjust the water with tools other than the Color Editor, e.g. clarity, curve, NR or sharpening etc. In my example I like the water to be more contrasty, and the rest of the image should be untouched.

    Now I pick a blue from the water with the ACE color picker, create a mask from it, use the Luma Range as well to exclude the dark rocks, and then I adjust the luma curve for contrast.

    Original image with color picked:

    Created layer "Water" from Color selection with Luma range and Luma curve adjustment:

    Mask:

    Finished. Now I could, if the Color range / Luma range would be parameterized, just copy the layer "Water" over to my next image, click "recalculate mask" in case this would be the design for the new feature in case it is not automatically recalculated by the apply action. If needed on the second image, I could tweak the Luma and color range parameters a little bit to make it a perfect fit again. Then I am finished with the second image.

    Without this feature, and assuming AI mask would not work here (which I cannot verify as I have v22), I can achieve a similar result with global adjustment of the Luma curve but then have to bring back the black rocks, and adjust the green foliage in the background. The look is slightly different though and not to my liking, and more steps are involved, maybe another layer for the foliage. There are always other ways to achieve something similar but the power or parameterized masks is unrivaled.

    In this example, here is the global adjustment but without solving the issue that my foliage has changed:

     

     

    Btw. my water highlights are juuuust a little bit blown out (not in this image but in the imaginary second one:-)) and I would like to bring some texture into them, with a local adjustment using the grain tool (yes there is a feature request for local grain already).

    Is this the kind of real world use case (or just a repetition of the advantages or color/luma/sat parameterized masks) you are looking for?

    Regards
    BeO

    EDITED post, incl. first screenshot

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  • Prasad Palaniyandi

    BeO I don't mind using my images ... Due to size limitation per response post, I have attached low res images. So I have uploaded High resolution JPEGs in Google Drive.

    Any one wants to support this thread and need images, please feel free to use images from this location.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FxWpWcQiQkHBl67woKBehUTLvna0H1M7?usp=sharing 

    0
  • Sharon Leibel
    Moderator

    Christian-G in these cases, I wonder sometimes, Strategically. Food for thought I would ask you sometime.

    1. Whether the use cases were here, where an after-thought in order to show a use case, Or is it a use case that created the need in the first place... Chicken or the egg. Is the tail pulling the dog? (Steve Jobs was famous for explaining why you need a new device, When you didn't even knew you needed one)

    2. How would all the requests affect C1 in terms of lines of code addition and the performance afterwards

    3. Does C1 wants to be a tool of many - master of none? a "Navy seal" or an "all around soldier"?

    -1
  • Kevin Robbins

    My work often uses colour blocking and I would LOVE to have this feature to apply a dynamic colour range on a mask across a whole set of images. It would be especially useful for seamless backdrops.

    Here are some examples of where I would find this extremely useful.

     

     

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  • Brian Jordan
    Moderator

    I’m likely being dense here but why does a global mask with a color selection not work?

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  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Because we may want to make adjustments only in areas where we have a specific color range. In this case we aren't editing the color, but using the color dynamically to create a mask similar to luminosity limiting a mask to a tonal range. If we copy-apply a color range masked layer to another image we want that color range to dynamically find the correct colors in the applied image and then apply the adjustments we made in the copy source. Luminosity masks are dynamic. They recalculate on the pasted image. We want color range selection masks that work the same way.

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