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Would love to see file/DAM performance improvements prioritized

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73 comments

  • Michael Moore

    OK, I have updated the post.

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  • Michael Moore

    Thanks for the cross-reference. I agree with everything that the other poster mentioned although I haven’t tried Peakto.

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  • FirstName LastName

    Improving file/DAM (Digital Asset Management) performance is crucial for optimizing productivity and efficiency when working with digital files. Here are a few reasons why prioritizing file/DAM performance improvements is beneficial:

    1. Faster access to files: Improved performance allows users to quickly retrieve and access files, reducing wait times and increasing productivity. This is especially important when working with large media files or when multiple users need simultaneous access to assets.

    2. Streamlined workflows: Efficient file/DAM performance enables smoother workflows, ensuring that users can upload, search, preview, and download files without delays. This enhances collaboration, content creation, and overall project management processes to template

    3. Enhanced user experience: Slow or lagging file/DAM systems can frustrate users and hinder their ability to complete tasks efficiently. By prioritizing performance improvements, you can provide a better user experience and improve user satisfaction.

    4. Scalability and future growth: As your organization or content library grows, the demand for file/DAM management increases. Investing in performance improvements ensures that your system can handle larger file volumes, increased user traffic, and evolving user needs.

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  • JoJu

    Does anybody of you know a way of finding collections, groups or projects by just typing in a name in the search field of the library? I don't, I miss a full text search for this items or at least an intelligent folder criteria. What's the speed up good for if it takes ages to find a certain collection? Or more basic, what's the point of catalog items if I can't find them only by opening all top groups and read through 1.100+ items? I asked support and now decided to suggest this improvement here: https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/12403322631965-Full-text-search-for-groups-collections-and-projects 

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Better search options would be very welcome, but as long as Capture One becomes unresponsive for quite a while when performing a simple search, it seems that handling of files/catalogue metadata needs to be improved first for this to be of any use.

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  • JoJu

    Can you please explain which kind of search you're referring by "becomes unresponsive"? I'm asking out of interest. Within 37k images and the catalog on an external SSD, while the source images are on another external RAID, I found it not exactly super snappy, but doing reasonably well, when I typed a keyword in.

    But (1) ... since I have more hate then sympathy for keywording, 24k still have no keywords at all. I made a try now and waited 8...10 sec for results.

    But (2) ... I am used to much longer waiting times using another DAM which has been moved to Azure cloud. These seconds can become minutes, so I sort of am not too unhappy.

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Just a regular search using the search field in the Filters tool with All Images selected in the Library tool.

    I currently have 63k+ images in my catalogue, some of which are stored on an external SSD. When I paste a search term, e.g. a file name or a word, into the search field, Capture One becomes unresponsive for more than a minute, which makes the search function more or less useless. It varies a little how long the unresponsiveness lasts; it's not always as bad as this, but I've had this issue since I started using Capture One, across different computers, with different catalogues and different external hard drives, so the problem is clearly with the software.

    It's a while since I've used Lightroom, but when I did, it would bring up search results almost instantly.

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  • Jed Best

    I most certainly agree that the dam capabilities of capture,one leave much to be desired. The filtering and search functions really need to be sped up and often I have a back up of captureone on photomechanic 6+that I will use to find an image. It would be great if capture one either teamed up with photo mechanic or drastically, improve their damn capabilities. Also, I am not as concerned about new features as I would love to have the existing features updated and increased in their efficiency.

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  • Michael Moore

    Yes, I'd second the idea of prioritizing basic performance over new features. At this point I have pretty much abandoned catalogs in favor of sessions just for performance. If there was an easy way to consolidate sessions into a catalog that's a feature I'd use, as it's still nice to have a year's work in one location. But the performance issues have me using Photo Mechanic also.

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    It is easy enough to consolidate sessions into a catalog. Just import the images in the session folders you want into the catalog, leaving the images in their existing locations, and make sure that the option to include existing adjustments is checked. In my case I only add the Selects and Output folders. The only thing you have to remember to do after that is not do any more editing in the session. If you want to edit some of those images further, do it in the catalog. The new edits will not sync back to the session.

    Ian

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Regarding Photo Mechanic as a supplement to Capture One. I use it for ingesting images, editing GPS metadata, etc., but don’t find its catalogue function at all useful, as it cannot show variants or edits. Peakto serves this function much better as it shows both variants and edits.

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  • Jed Best

    I use Photomechanic to identify the original image and then, in CO, find any variants and edits. However, I will check into Peakto. It would be best if the DAM features in CO were significantly improved and thus eliminate the need for an outside DAM app.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Ian wrote:

    If you want to edit some of those images further, do it in the catalog. The new edits will not sync back to the session.

    That's true. It is also true that I would like to have a sync back into the sessions, or a two-way sync.

    There is a workaround though, although a bit clunky it enables me to keep the adjustments in the catalog and in the session (more precise: in the  .cos and .comask adjustment files of the individual images) in sync, if I don't make mistakes.

    After import of images from session folders into the catalog, the base idea is to make any changes to metadata or image adjustments in a session, then remove the respective images from the catalog and then use the "synchronize" function in the library tool at the folder level to import them again, including their now updated adjustments.

    If I work on individual images that's pretty much a manual search in the catalog, remove and sync back. If I want to edit more images, maybe even across different original sessions, I search them in the catalog, remember them by assigning them to a static album, drag&drop them from the catalog browser to a second C1 app which has a session open (precisely: I drop them to an empty album). I use a special session for this which only exists for this purpose.

    The nice thing is that the session now can reference all the chosen images even if they are stored in different folder (or even drives I assume), e.g. you can work on images of a multiple years project.

    I then do my edits in the session, one finsished I open the catalog, remove the images in that specific "remember" album from the catalog (be careful not to delete them from disk), go the the highest level folder which has all images underneath it and so the right-click syncronization to reimport them again into the catalog. Cleanup of the album in the session and finished.

    This works quite well with C1 version 22.The special session is fast to work with (assuming a reasonable number of images at a time), and all metadata and edits are stored in sidecar files which I hugely prefer rather than having everything in a single point of failure catalog file (but I have both :-).

    This is a workaround only, a fast DAM (and sync option to/from sidecar files) would be very much welcome.

     

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    It really would be nice if this very common occurrence could be reduced.

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  • Jack W
    Admin

    Thomas Kyhn Are you using a large sized catalog by any chance? Wouldn't mind knowing a bit more about your workflow so that I can advise or let the team know.

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Jack-W

    My current catalogue contains 63k+ photos.

    It's an old issue; I've been in contact with support about it for a long time (case #147215, marked as "solved", though it's never been solved). The conclusion was that Capture One just doesn't work very well with larger catalogues.

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  • Jack W
    Admin

    Thomas Kyhn It's been marked as solved because the support team have done all they can to troubleshoot the issue. However, I can see that your request has been made into a bug report and is actively receiving attention from R&D.

    I know that doesn't stop your machine from slowing down, but I just want to assure you that we're not simply closing things and sweeping them under the rug. In fact, I just had someone come over and speak to me about this report, so things are moving ahead.

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Jack-W

    I'm glad to hear that. And I understand completely that the "Solved" label does not necessarily reflect the status of the case.

    If there's any information you need from me regarding the issue, please let me know.

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  • Jack W
    Admin

    Much appreciated as always Thomas Kyhn :) 

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  • Michael Moore

    I don't know if this is any help, but CO has been hung for the last 10 minutes, and doesn't seem to be using any CPU. I have 3 sessions open, no catalogs. One session is on a Synology NAS box located very near by.

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  • Ricardo de Vicq de Cumptich

    Capture one is one of the few software that manages to have a great ability to develop raw files, and the possibility of organizing these files. But a lot still needs to be done, especially in terms of organization. Not handling large files well is a shame. If the program is made for professionals, being able to handle a large volume of images is fundamental.

    The old Apple Aperture from 2014 had almost the same organization capacity as Capture 23. My catalog has 470K photos in 14TB referenced image on Areca Thunderbolt 3 storage, the catalog of these images has 488GB. I need it to work really well. Impossible to start all over again like I did when I switched from Aperture to Capture one a few years ago.
    You convinced me that this is the best software, I believed it and I am very happy with it. please make it even better in organization (DAM)

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  • JoJu

    Michael Moore it never occured to you that eventually PhotoMechanic is getting in the way? Its PM task is already eating 93% of CPU and the app already runs twice as long as C1. So maybe the problem resides there? Does restarting PM help?

    Just a note: My questions here are based on lack of knowledge about PM behaviour in correspondence with sessions - I use none of them, so I'm only guessing. And I never understood the sense of wearing belt and suspenders either... I'm sure you have dozens of good reasons why PM is a necessity in your workflow.

     

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  • JoJu

    Ricardo de Vicq de Cumptich you said "The old Apple Aperture from 2014 had almost the same organization capacity as Capture 23." I say it's the other way round. Capture One is still missing a lot of good features what Apple Aperture brought to the table!

    As a start, Capture One still is unable to search in it's own catalog for album or project names, see Full text search for groups, collections and projects and Search collections / albums and is still, after many years, lacking this feature from the beginning of the introduction of catalogs. Further on, Aperture's intelligent albums could search for Aperture metadata like album name, album path, file size, proportions-, original. and cropped size of image. There are no face recognition features, Google maps shows only one image at a time (Aperture was showing the whole trip of all images in an album).

    Capture One also is not able to tell me into which project/album an image is referenced to. When scrolling through "all images" I sometimes see one image and would like to see its "colleagues", collected in the same album that found image is in. No chance. 

    And least: Although I'm using C1 from version 7 and since the end of AA plus some new, un-supported bodies regularly and spend considerable time in front of it, I still find an image within less than a minute in AA. In C1, due to it's DAM shortcomings, never.

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  • Michael Moore

    Joju - I run into the issue with or without Photo Mechanic being open. It really doesn't seem to make much difference. I mostly use it for ingest tasks. I bought the Plus version hoping it would be better than CO for DAM use, but sadly it isn't.  

    If I had to guess what's going on I would say that CO is not able to multi-thread well, and is waiting until it has completely finished reading the files and metadata before it returns control to the user. It does this in other instances too - where processes could be done in the background it shows a modal dialog and prevents any user input. 

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    I too bought Photo Mechanic Plus hoping it would work well with Capture One, but I've ended up using it only for ingesting photos and adding/editing GPS metadata. For DAM it isn't much use, at least not to me.

    It would be an great improvement if processes would run in the background rather than Capture One becoming unresponsive as often as it does now.

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  • JoJu

    I tried PM plus also during my DxO Photolab period, which in terms of DAM is even worse than C1. From my Aperture experiences I kept a prejudice against "RAW converter + separate DAM" solutions, which are no solution but more likely another source of annoyances. My two main C1 catalogs both have less than 40k referenced RAWs and are 143 and 232 GB in size. Catalogs on external TB3 SSD, RAWs on G-Tech RAID. So far most speed problems I'm only experiencing because the G-Tech RAID needs a lot of time to start up although energy saving options for the drives are deactivated. I suspect the old G-Tech firmware to be the brake. Can't update the firmware, WD's support pages are a nightmare.

    As said, I tried PM plus and was disappointed. A separate DAM usually needs exported JPGs or RAWs to show the edits, to me that's a waste of time and disk space. I keep the RAWs until I need to export them for a project. In C1 I can see the edits. That's the reason to use C1's DAM, but handling +1.100 collections/projects/groups is far from "nice to use".

    I'd like to import at least the AA main catalog into a fresh C1 catalog, but the mind map what to prepare and what to test before is growing and growing. I once made an attempt but have to say, the person / team implementing this import is not suspected to have used AA ever before. The result of the first attempt was so poor that I trashed the catalog soon after.

    And I'm afraid, if I try it again, just better prepared, I will feel homesick again. If there would be an Aperture 2023, I would jump back in no time.

     

     

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  • Kevin Robbins

    I would love to see AI capabilities integrated into the DAM in the same way Mylio and Shade have done, having an AI engine built right into the software on your system.

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    I'm not familiar with what Mylio and Shade have done in this regard. Can you say more about it?

    Ian

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  • Kevin Robbins

    Sure!

    Autotagging and descriptions.

    Facial detection and recognition.

    Smart collections.

     

    Those are the primary three that would change so much. Being able to search by tags and keywords that are added automatically would be amazing. Automatic tagging and keywording would be game changers. Any process that helps alleviate the mundane administrative parts of our workflows.

    To be able to quickly search a 10-year catalogue of more than 200K images without having to view every single image and keyword it would make so many lives a lot better.

    Thanks for listening!

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