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Would love to see file/DAM performance improvements prioritized

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73 comments

  • Jack W
    Admin

    JoJu "Since how many years are the devs pretending to be too stupid/distracted/incapable" – I'm gonna guess this is what Brian Jordan considered a personal attack. These "devs" are human beings who I work closely with on a daily basis, and who also come here from time to time. I want to make this a place where people feel welcome and your tone, along with the language being used, does not help to create the kind of environment that we want.

    I kindly ask you to familiarize yourself with the rules before commenting or posting again. 

    With regards to forum functionality and feature requests not being responded to for a few months...

    1. The forum is in a far better place than what it was 12-18 months ago. If I could snap my fingers and change a bunch of things with regards to functionality and general look/feel, I would! Believe me.

    2. We've been developing a new version (16.3) which includes many features and improvements that the community asked for directly. When we release for example, 16.4, 16.5 etc. You will see a lot more activity because the Product Managers and devs will be looking at the features people want for future versions.

    We're also actively working on a better solution for feature requests. I can't say more than that right now, though.

    7
  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    JoJu

    the DAM system lacks a lot. pretty sure no one disagrees.

    labeling developers as stupid is disrespectful. be respectful.

     

    5
  • Marcin Mrzygłocki
    Top Commenter

    Man, stop.

    4
  • Raymond Harrison

    Developers work on company priorities. The ones I've had the pleasure of interacting with at both Capture One and Phase One have been super intelligent. Tantrums aside (never a good look and never the desired outcome), I wonder if it makes sense to take a feature request like this one, which is fairly generic, and break it up into several that are more specific? Prioritizing performance is something that isn't ever going to be "done" in my mind. 

    3
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    It is a matter of priority and cost, product management and company management stuff, not dev's job. If you really work since so many years with devs, you should know that.

    Yes, Brian's reply is an edge case, imo, but anyway he is right, there is no more to say from either side I think, in the context of this feature request.

    Cheers,
    Peace,
    BeO

    3
  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    By the way, I received a reply from support yesterday, that contained the following passage:

    Large Catalog performance needs to improve. That also means we need to investigate in which setups, and how big means big Catalogs. Right now we are not using resources on that front.

    I.e.: DAM performance has no priority.

    This was a reply to a request for help to find the cause of Capture One's excessive unresponsiveness on my system.

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  • FirstName LastName

    Improving file/DAM (Digital Asset Management) performance is crucial for optimizing productivity and efficiency when working with digital files. Here are a few reasons why prioritizing file/DAM performance improvements is beneficial:

    1. Faster access to files: Improved performance allows users to quickly retrieve and access files, reducing wait times and increasing productivity. This is especially important when working with large media files or when multiple users need simultaneous access to assets.

    2. Streamlined workflows: Efficient file/DAM performance enables smoother workflows, ensuring that users can upload, search, preview, and download files without delays. This enhances collaboration, content creation, and overall project management processes to template

    3. Enhanced user experience: Slow or lagging file/DAM systems can frustrate users and hinder their ability to complete tasks efficiently. By prioritizing performance improvements, you can provide a better user experience and improve user satisfaction.

    4. Scalability and future growth: As your organization or content library grows, the demand for file/DAM management increases. Investing in performance improvements ensures that your system can handle larger file volumes, increased user traffic, and evolving user needs.

    2
  • Jack W
    Admin

    Thomas Kyhn It's been marked as solved because the support team have done all they can to troubleshoot the issue. However, I can see that your request has been made into a bug report and is actively receiving attention from R&D.

    I know that doesn't stop your machine from slowing down, but I just want to assure you that we're not simply closing things and sweeping them under the rug. In fact, I just had someone come over and speak to me about this report, so things are moving ahead.

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  • JoJu

    Ricardo de Vicq de Cumptich you said "The old Apple Aperture from 2014 had almost the same organization capacity as Capture 23." I say it's the other way round. Capture One is still missing a lot of good features what Apple Aperture brought to the table!

    As a start, Capture One still is unable to search in it's own catalog for album or project names, see Full text search for groups, collections and projects and Search collections / albums and is still, after many years, lacking this feature from the beginning of the introduction of catalogs. Further on, Aperture's intelligent albums could search for Aperture metadata like album name, album path, file size, proportions-, original. and cropped size of image. There are no face recognition features, Google maps shows only one image at a time (Aperture was showing the whole trip of all images in an album).

    Capture One also is not able to tell me into which project/album an image is referenced to. When scrolling through "all images" I sometimes see one image and would like to see its "colleagues", collected in the same album that found image is in. No chance. 

    And least: Although I'm using C1 from version 7 and since the end of AA plus some new, un-supported bodies regularly and spend considerable time in front of it, I still find an image within less than a minute in AA. In C1, due to it's DAM shortcomings, never.

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  • Monty

    I would also like to add my support for DAM improvements. I've been using Capture One for about two weeks.  I even purchased it :). 

    I am a longtime LrC user. I have recently become frustrated with how poorly LrC handles my low light Q2M photos.  LrC add tons of noise and banding. Not so with Capture One. In general all of my photos look better in Capture One. I'm all in.

    EXCEPT. searching my ~25,000 phtoto library is terrible. I press ⌘-f to bring up the search box and it is like I am on a DOS computer using Word Perfect. I type in the search field and I can watch the text slowly appear. Smart albums are also very slow. I see the Mac "Beach Ball" far too much

    I don't have an extremely fast computer, an M1 MacBook Air. 16GB with 1TB SSC. LrC flies on this computer. 

    So, after two week I like Capture One very much, but please work on efficiency. 

    Thanks

    Monty

    2
  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Just a regular search using the search field in the Filters tool with All Images selected in the Library tool.

    I currently have 63k+ images in my catalogue, some of which are stored on an external SSD. When I paste a search term, e.g. a file name or a word, into the search field, Capture One becomes unresponsive for more than a minute, which makes the search function more or less useless. It varies a little how long the unresponsiveness lasts; it's not always as bad as this, but I've had this issue since I started using Capture One, across different computers, with different catalogues and different external hard drives, so the problem is clearly with the software.

    It's a while since I've used Lightroom, but when I did, it would bring up search results almost instantly.

    1
  • Jed Best

    I most certainly agree that the dam capabilities of capture,one leave much to be desired. The filtering and search functions really need to be sped up and often I have a back up of captureone on photomechanic 6+that I will use to find an image. It would be great if capture one either teamed up with photo mechanic or drastically, improve their damn capabilities. Also, I am not as concerned about new features as I would love to have the existing features updated and increased in their efficiency.

    1
  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Jack-W

    I'm glad to hear that. And I understand completely that the "Solved" label does not necessarily reflect the status of the case.

    If there's any information you need from me regarding the issue, please let me know.

    1
  • JoJu

    Michael Moore it never occured to you that eventually PhotoMechanic is getting in the way? Its PM task is already eating 93% of CPU and the app already runs twice as long as C1. So maybe the problem resides there? Does restarting PM help?

    Just a note: My questions here are based on lack of knowledge about PM behaviour in correspondence with sessions - I use none of them, so I'm only guessing. And I never understood the sense of wearing belt and suspenders either... I'm sure you have dozens of good reasons why PM is a necessity in your workflow.

     

    1
  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    I'm not familiar with what Mylio and Shade have done in this regard. Can you say more about it?

    Ian

    1
  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Considering the company's very apparent lack of interest in improving anything that has to do with metadata or with Capture One's poor handling of catalogues, AI assisted metadata seems quite far off.

    1
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    I don't believe you speak with the devs you work with on a daily basis the same as you do here, JoJu. I understand, sometimes it seems easier to defend ones position than to turn the ship around, the latter would be more appreciated though and would shine a better light on you. Cheers.

    1
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    I didn't see your last post.

    Don't forget, the app is 20+ years old, a lot of 'history' in the code.

    1
  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    I wonder if it makes sense to take a feature request like this one, which is fairly generic, and break it up into several that are more specific? Prioritizing performance is something that isn't ever going to be "done" in my mind.

    While this request could also be taken as an encouragement to give some degree of priority to improvement of DAM performance – rather than no priority at all, as appears to be the current state of things – it would probably be a good idea to break it up into specific areas. As the main issue here seems to be network drives, perhaps it would be a good idea to change the title/description to focus on this?

    1
  • JoJu

    When did we see any new feature concerning DAM? The last bit was bringing in "groups". Possibly something happened "under the hood" because 2 or 3 major versions before crashes were queueing to happen when working in the catalog structure.

    In the meantime I think, there's simply no one in C1 developers department able to really improve the DAM part. Lots of competence for image editing, opposite of that is image handling in the catalog.

    How about collecting the issues you'd like to see to become improved?

    1. Searching for albums, projects needs to be possible. Currently it's not.
    2. Creating intelligent albums also needs to be able to look for certain album or project criteria, else it's rather pointless to work with albums and projects.
    3. I'd like to be able to see in which album or project an image is in. Not possible at the moment.
    4. Capture One is one of the few "DAM" solutions in which it's impossible to add GPS data to images. I can work around and use another browser (GraphicConverter) which can do that job, but it's cumbersome.
    5. What's the point of using groups? I cannot browse all pictures in a group, not to mention search for group names. The intelligent albums are entirely restricted to either a project or all images, but using them in a group again is pointless, as they will come up with images from the whole catalog. That makes groups very useless.
    6. At least improve the calendar function of intelligent folders. I tried to change a date ("all images after dd.mm.yyyy) by using the calendar and it remained in the same state it had before trying to edit. Makes it useless again.
    7. It would be cool to be able to duplicate an intelligent folder and then edit it. Currently each of them needs to be set up from scratch. Why not duplicate "all images with star ratings of 4 ★ or better from 2022" and change the year to 2023 while at the same time keeping the older keepers?
    1
  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    In the former case I suspect that C1 is trying to refine the search at each typed keys, which has a sort of multiplicative effect on the “standard” slowness.

    The slowness of simple smart albums is beyond me: there's a mySQL underlying database, which should handle queries quickly.

    I had a request in the old requests section for an option to turn off 'search as you type' – and I've just made a new request here: Option to turn off 'search as you type'. One workaround is to write search terms elsewhere, then copy them and paste them in the search field. See this topic also.

    I thought the underlying database was SQLite. Regardless of the format, it evidently isn't very fast, and there's nothing to indicate that the company intends to do anything about it, unfortunately.

    1
  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Thomas Kyhn – The underlying database is SQLite3.

    JoJu said:

    Guys , either you don't want to understand or you have never used Apple's Aperture.

    The hierarchy in C1 is groups > projects > albums or intelligent albums.

    I used Apple Aperture for years. I know its organizational features very well. There is a blog post on the Capture One website written by me about migrating Apple Aperture to Capture One. Capture One asked me because they didn't have expertise in Aperture and they knew my reputation among the Apple Aperture community.

    There is NO imperative that one must follow Groups > Projects > Albums as a hierarchy (if that is what you meant in your statement). In my Capture One user collections I have top level projects with albums and no groups. I have top level groups with albums and no projects. In Apple Aperture you could create groups of groups, groups of Projects, and groups of Albums inside or outside of projects. Both Capture One and Apple Aperture have complete flexibility. Neither application strictly enforces or requires a specific paradigm.

    In Apple Aperture I never created a search by a collection name. I don't deny some might find that useful. I simply never found the need to do so myself.

    We in this conversation don't know how many people would find that feature useful. This thread is about DAM performance. If you want a feature for Capture One to search by a user collection name then submit that as a feature request. If lots of people upvote it then Capture One will know that it is a highly sought feature.

    1
  • Monty

     I type in the search field and I can watch the text slowly appear. Smart albums are also very slow. I see the Mac "Beach Ball" far too much

    Typical. In the former case I suspect that C1 is trying to refine the search at each typed keys, which has a sort of multiplicative effect on the “standard” slowness.

     

    Yes I can see this happening. But, other programs don't see this lagginess. 

    I don't want to be the grumbly guy, I just want Capture One to be a better program. I like so much about it. Hopefully this will be addressed in future releases. 

    Thanks

    Mionty 

    1
  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Walter Rowe

    I use the Filters tool to find most anything I need to find. Dates, Places, Metadata, Keywords generally do all I need. I also use the free form text search which searches every field. That of course can be slow due to the number of fields and images in my catalog (catalog with over 66K images).

    Here Capture One becomes unresponsive also when filtering by rating, color tag, date and keywords. You don't see this?

    1
  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Here, with a catalogue containing 28k+ images, when I select one of the filters, e.g. a color tag, Capture One brings up the result almost immediately and then becomes unresponsive (spinning beach ball) for a around 12 seconds. With larger catalogues the unresponsiveness lasts longer.

    1
  • Marcin Mrzygłocki
    Top Commenter

    Fabrizio Giudici (stoppingdown)

    In general, it seems also that there is something that degrades the performance over time — I mean, sometimes it seems that quitting and restarting C1 recovers this degradation.

    Capture One has quite solid leaks, to the point I would discourage doing intense activities on less than 32 GB RAM (on Windows at least, this is what I can test). I even had it eat everything there was out of 64GB I have...

    1
  • john hardiman

    I thoroughly agree that Capture One needs to improve DAM and file management urgently.  I came from LR several years ago and it's chalk and cheese.  Just one example from myself, often when I change a folder name in Capture One, it takes a very long time to complete and quite often leaves a huge mess where both the new and old folder name remain on the disk and image files are scattered between both.  Sometimes I have lost edits trying to fix that, extremely frustrating.  I have had better luck going into windows explorer, changing the folder name, then mapping back the lost folder in Capture One, but that's also extra steps and inconvenient.  This happens for me on both my laptop and PC using windows, so seems to be related to Capture One itself.  When I try the exact same operations in LR, they perform flawlessly and quickly every time as you would expect.  My files are on local hard drives and I have 128GB RAM available on the PC and catalog's in the thousands or tens of thousands of images (not hundreds of thousands). 

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  • Michael Moore

    OK, I have updated the post.

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  • Michael Moore

    Thanks for the cross-reference. I agree with everything that the other poster mentioned although I haven’t tried Peakto.

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