Some feature requests I'd like to see implemented...
If anyone has opinions about these, I'd like to hear them. These are some UI things that aggravate me pretty frequently, having used C1 for a few months now.
1. I'd love it if when the crop tool is selected, the image has handles around the image to make it both more obvious that you're in crop mode, and have it be easier to grab to make a crop. There could be four corner handles for constrained modes and eight corner and side for unconstrained: also a good visualization for what sort of mode you're in (currently there is only checking the menu).
2. If your crop is constrained to different proportions than the source image, the initial clicking of the crop causes the crop to jump away from the cursor, basing the crop off the opposite corner. This seems crazy to me, and forces me to click, then move my mouse to click the new crop corner again, before I can resize or move the crop.
The choice of which corner to base the crop off is arbitrary (given that, as far as the software is concerned, I picked an arbitrary corner to start the crop), so why not base it off the corner I clicked? At least that way, I can click and start resizing the crop immediately.
3. I'd love it if the Process tool simply processed whichever recipe was checked, as opposed to caring about which one is currently highlighted. Checked is more important, highlighted is more transient: this is the way most software works.
4. I'd like to drag resize the tool panels to arbitrary heights.
5. Several updates have blown away my custom tool panel. I'd love a way to keep it, save it to a file to reimport it if needed, something like that.
1. I'd love it if when the crop tool is selected, the image has handles around the image to make it both more obvious that you're in crop mode, and have it be easier to grab to make a crop. There could be four corner handles for constrained modes and eight corner and side for unconstrained: also a good visualization for what sort of mode you're in (currently there is only checking the menu).
2. If your crop is constrained to different proportions than the source image, the initial clicking of the crop causes the crop to jump away from the cursor, basing the crop off the opposite corner. This seems crazy to me, and forces me to click, then move my mouse to click the new crop corner again, before I can resize or move the crop.
The choice of which corner to base the crop off is arbitrary (given that, as far as the software is concerned, I picked an arbitrary corner to start the crop), so why not base it off the corner I clicked? At least that way, I can click and start resizing the crop immediately.
3. I'd love it if the Process tool simply processed whichever recipe was checked, as opposed to caring about which one is currently highlighted. Checked is more important, highlighted is more transient: this is the way most software works.
4. I'd like to drag resize the tool panels to arbitrary heights.
5. Several updates have blown away my custom tool panel. I'd love a way to keep it, save it to a file to reimport it if needed, something like that.
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1. You can do that already if I read your requirement correctly.
2. I don't really see how it makes any difference. The assumption is that you wish to crop form the starting point so the default presentation gives the maximum crop possible based on the information available.
If you really want to crop the pother way simply remember to start at the opposite corner - or no corner at all.
Or draw the crop freehand, then change to the ratio you want and start to redraw and the ratio will be applied. Then grab the crop and move it to where you wish it to be.
3. It does. you can have multiple process recipes checked and it will process them all.
The highlight simply shows which recipe you are currently using to view the image. If it is not checked you won't get it processed to output.
4. In most cases you can but make them floating tools first.
As C1 attempts to automatically resize tools in the tool panel making allowances for font sizing and the vertical resolution available on the displaying screen with the intention of maximising what it is possible to view at any time it not entirely clear why you might want to take manual control of what in most cases are optimally sized tools based on the screen real estate available. One or two tools may require a lot more real estate for your needs than might be readily available based on the tools you have in a tab but that does not normally create any sort of problem.
5. Be sure to save your custom tool panel with your own name rather than simply save it with its default name. That way it will not be lost. However, in rare situations where new tools are added, old tools replaced or a general regrouping of the tools available might be applied, you may want to revisit your bespoke and saved Workspaces in order to revise them and take advantage of the latest offerings.
Usually C1 will automatically find your previous settings and carry them forward - unless you saved as the default name which will be overwritten when updates are delivered.
They are saved in a user data area provided by the OS that you are using.
HTH.
Grant0 -
Thanks for the reply.
1. I see nowhere where I can display handles on the crop tool. Mask, frame, labels, but no handles.
2. You misunderstand. In starting a constrained crop from a corner of the image, the control jumps away from the mouse once you start it: I click a corner of my image, and then immediately my mouse is no longer over an active corner of the crop. It's never very nice to let a user click on something to control it, and then move the control out from underneath the mouse. User owns the screen.
I'd like to be able to click the corner and drag immediately, and be immediately resizing the crop. Now I have to click, move the mouse to the new crop corner, and then click and drag.
3. If you have one recipe highlighted but not checked, and one checked, it will give you an error, "The selected recipe will not be used for processing because it is not enabled." This breaks common UI convention, and is internally inconsistent. It makes switching recipes annoying, because you have to click the checkboxes and move the highlight, turning one click into three.
4. Every time I've done that: pull them out, size them, and put them back in the column, they resize themselves again. And several of them waste a lot of space when docked, so I can't keep as many tools expanded as I would like. The Library wastes a lot of space if you collapse things (when set to "small"); so does Layers, if you don't use more than one or two.
And "Auto" size appears to encourage a panel to take up as much space as possible, instead of shrinking to fit its contents, which to me would be preferable.
5. I've named my custom panel (to my name), and have had it disappear on each update. I've had to recreate it a few times. I'm not choosing to delete my preferences or anything when I do an update, and I've never deleted it myself, but it has disappeared a few times.
6. Also don't love that exporting images (if you need to make adjustments) takes three tools: Recipes, Recipe, and Summary. Feels like that could be a lot more condensed.0 -
1. Position the cursor over an edge or a corner and it should change to a context sensitive adjustment cursor that allows you to drag an edge vertically or horizontally (if using "Unconstrained" mode), a corner diagonally or, if you position the cursor just outside the crop outline frame, to rotate the crop.
In all cases the crop will obey other rules set.
Which leads to ...
2.
If you are working in Unconstrained mode you can do anything you like constrained only by edge of the image or any rotation adjustment that may have been applied. Also any pre-existing crop related to lens automatic lens correction.
If you are working with a predefined crop ratio C1 will take your starting point, consider the ratio to be applied and what can be be achieved to offer the maximum image area based on the crop ration, your starting point and, possibly, any settings in the Output Recipe that is currently active for editing (whether ticked for selection or not) in order to give a logical starting point for the maximum crop possible for the selected ratio. If you are changing an existing crop the existing crop area will be taken into account to try to save some effort.
Just drag the newly created crop to wherever you want it to be.
If that is not something you feel comfortable with just start a new crop by holding down the Shift key and dragging out a new crop area with the cursor.
If you are used to something else this may be disconcerting but works well once one is used to it.
3. It's not an error, merely an advisory warning to give you a reminder to tick the box on the basis that is you have been working with that unticked recipe you might be wishing to use it for Output Processing.
4. I'll leave that one for others to comment. Given 1000 users you may well get 1000 different opinions.
5. What do you mean by "Custom Panel"? An entire Workspace? A user defined Tab for selected tools added to the default Workspace? Something else?
Are you running on Mac or Windows?
6. The Output process tool group is extremely flexible with each tool having its own set of functions. However it can look daunting at first.
Once understood and taking into account that one probably only regularly needs part(s) of the functionality to achieve what one requires leaving the rest of the functionality for others who need it for their purposes, it should prove easy to manage.
HTH.
Grant0 -
1. You sound like you think I'm saying I don't know how the crop tool functions. I'm saying it could use some better display. Contextual UI is all well and good, but things get tricky with invisible hit boxes for things you need to click, especially when the visual target could theoretically be 1x1 pixels: there's always a guess as to the hit box size, so aiming the mouse is more annoying than it could be. This is UI 101.
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/6legwvg35fhxn ... r.mp4?dl=0
This is the UI behavior I believe is egregious, with the crop tool. The active crop jumps away from the mouse cursor. It could just as easily jump away from the other side of the photo, with my cursor still on the crop. I'm saying this is an annoyance, and bad UI.
3. It is very bad UI. It sloppily conflates "enabling", "highlighting", and "selecting": with one recipe to process, it must both be enabled and selected/highlighted. With multiple, recipes can be enabled but unselected, and still be processed. One of them must be selected/highlighted, though, but it doesn't matter which.
Properly, enabled recipes would be processed, and the selection highlight would be ignored. If you don't have checkboxes, you can use a highlight to mean "selected". Again, UI 101. Find another app that behaves like this, with checkboxes and highlights, across any OS; I've never seen one.
4. Sure.
5. My custom tool tab. I've had to remake it a few times.
6. That strikes me as apologia for bad UI. The Summary tool is nigh useless, save that it has the critical "Process" button. It replicates the info from other tools that you probably also have open (but which actually do something), and doesn't display summaries for more than one recipe, even though you might have several enabled, so its informativeness is suboptimal. The button could as easily live on the Recipes tool, and I wouldn't have a need to put the Summary tool on my custom tab.0 -
A lot of this reads as though you don't like the crop tool and call that bad UI design. Whereas some of us like the way the tool behaves (and the way that recipe selection and activation behaves). By all means lobby for changes to how it all works, but if you'd like Phase One to consider making such changes, you need to ask for them in a support case. Find another app that behaves like this, with checkboxes and highlights, across any OS; I've never seen one.
Maybe not. But the UI on some other software I have tried drives me nuts - probably because it is not like Capture One, which is what I am most accustomed to!
Ian0 -
1. Well I can understand that you might prefer a different approach but I'm with Ian3 on this. And yes, your descriptions do tend to suggest that you have not found the full benefits of the way the crop tool works in context.
I don't think a 1x1 pixel selection is especially viable (and is that 1x1 of the display screen according to the recipe settings or 1x1 of the original image?)
However if you really do feel a need for that level of precision you probably need to be working at 400% zoom. That likely introduced some other interesting challenges.
2. You have a crop ratio set that is significantly different to the original ratio of the image and all C1 that is doing is retaining the maximum area of the image that it can. By indicating that you want to start your drag at the lower left the logical assumption is that you will be moving into the image and C1 simply tries to help by apply the identified crop ratio as best fit in that situation. Just grab the cropped area and reposition it. Or simply keep moving the cursor to resize. For other ratio changes that are less distinct the effect will likely be less obvious and much depends also on your Output recipe definition.
Alternatively just use the shift key and start defining the crop wherever you wish and totally skip any C1 attempt at assistance.
3. I disagree. However if you have a suggestion for the developers simply create a Support Case and offer it.
4.
5. If you did not save your workspace with your own name (not one of the system installed workspace names) your tool tab will only exist in (for example) the Default Workspace definition as supplied by C1 and modified by you. At the next update the Default workspace will be overwritten.
Save your Workspace and make sure you return to it and not a "Default" if you ever switch Workspaces as part of your workflow.
When C1 updates sometimes make logical changes to the supplied tool groupings or adds new tools, etc., you may want to review your personalised tool tabs (and other things perhaps) but normally whatever you have defined will still work and your previously active Workspace will be the one that opens next time you start C1.
6. Not an apology at all.
I disagree with your assessment but respect your right not to understand the software in the same way that I completely fail to gel with most of the UI workings of PhotoShop, Affinity and many other similar applications.
You don't need to go to the summary tool to start the Batch process. If you are comfortable with the settings you have set up - and the whole point is to have recipes set up that allow you to produce your most used output recipes with little or no need to make changes to the recipes - you can kick off the queue with a keyboard command for either a single image or all images currently selected.
I don't see a benefit for trying to display multiple summaries at the same time. I think for many users posting on here such a display would cause more confusion than it would offer benefit - assuming they have worked out that multi recipe processing is possible.
The Summary is really only provided as a final check that allows people to ensure that they are likely to get what they think they have set up.
Checking one recipe at a time makes sense.
Tick the box for active active recipes to limit the list, highlight each in turn if one wants to check expectations. A few seconds, very clear which recipe's summary one is looking at. Job done hit the button or use the Shortcut command.
However I would observe that the whole process works best when one has spent some time getting more than a top level understanding and some significant familiarity IF one has variable requirements, batch by batch.
If not, just set it up once and simply process images as required one at a time as I suspect many people do.
You could even have a personalised Workspace dedicated to final output processing if that might offer some benefits although the concept of the process is, in my opinion, already encapsulated in what is available subject to any constraints related to the viewing screen capabilities. On a large enough - perhaps 4k? - screen one could have a personalised view set up as a Workspace using floating tools to optimise visibility and access. But I suspect most people do not feel a need for that most of the time.
HTH.
Grant0 -
SFA wrote:
2. You have a crop ratio set that is significantly different to the original ratio of the image and all C1 that is doing is retaining the maximum area of the image that it can.
Yes, but it can do that keeping the crop on the cursor. It always chooses to jump away from the cursor, no matter which corner you start it from. It's an annoyance. I prefer to start crops from a maximum size, rather than by starting a whole new crop in the middle of the image, so this is a mode of working that C1 makes more annoying than it needs to.SFA wrote:
3. I disagree. However if you have a suggestion for the developers simply create a Support Case and offer it.
I will, but I was following the suggestion of mentioning it here as well.
Not minding how selection and enabling is handled in the Recipes palette is just Stockholm Syndrome. It breaks several rules of good UI design: not every UI for every app needs to be identical, but there are some conventions that shouldn't be ignored.SFA wrote:
Save your Workspace and make sure you return to it and not a "Default" if you ever switch Workspaces as part of your workflow.
That is where I was screwing up. Thanks. I named the tool tab, but not the workspace.SFA wrote:
6. Not an apology at all.
I disagree with your assessment but respect your right not to understand the software in the same way that I completely fail to gel with most of the UI workings of PhotoShop, Affinity and many other similar applications.
How passive aggressively condescending of you. Thanks again.
The intricacies and power of the Process system is evident. It's saddled with some terrible UI: objectively badly designed and implemented, not simply a function of not understanding the tool.
Years of experience with a tool can lead to people simply adjusting to the idiosyncrasies of the tool, and not seeing how it could be made better. I've used Photoshop for almost 30 years now, and it still has some terrible UI. That I'm used to it doesn't make it not terrible.
I've used C1 since v11, and it has improved with v12, but a bunch of the UI is uniquely awful.SFA wrote:
You don't need to go to the summary tool to start the Batch process. If you are comfortable with the settings you have set up - and the whole point is to have recipes set up that allow you to produce your most used output recipes with little or no need to make changes to the recipes - you can kick off the queue with a keyboard command for either a single image or all images currently selected.
And changing the queue is a minimum of three clicks instead of one. That's what I am talking about. When your UI is full of things like that, it hasn't been well enough thought out. And getting fixes to them will make experience and novice users alike ecstatic.SFA wrote:
I don't see a benefit for trying to display multiple summaries at the same time. I think for many users posting on here such a display would cause more confusion than it would offer benefit - assuming they have worked out that multi recipe processing is possible.
I wouldn't ask for that. I'm just saying that right now, it paints an unreliable picture of what will happen when you press the only button on that tool. Unreliable information in a UI is indicative of UI that could be a lot better.0 -
The intricacies and power of the Process system is evident. It's saddled with some terrible UI: objectively badly designed and implemented, not simply a function of not understanding the tool.
Years of experience with a tool can lead to people simply adjusting to the idiosyncrasies of the tool, and not seeing how it could be made better. I've used Photoshop for almost 30 years now, and it still has some terrible UI. That I'm used to it doesn't make it not terrible.
I've used C1 since v11, and it has improved with v12, but a bunch of the UI is uniquely awful.
If that's how you see it. But I think there is a difference between UI features not suiting what you would prefer, and them being "objectively badly designed". I like the Capture One approach to things. Admittedly that is partly because I have used it for years, since version 4.1, and it is what I am familiar with, but I rarely find myself using other software and thinking "Ooh, I wish Capture One did it this way!" - more likely I am thinking "Why can't this annoying software do it the way Capture One does it?" (And that is not to say that there aren't some features I wish for in Capture One.)
So I think it is more constructive (and likely to lead to change) to suggest ways we think it could be different, or be improved, rather than just condemn as bad design what many of us users actively prefer.
Ian0
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