Unresponsiveness
I'm having trouble with Capture One constantly becoming unresponsive, not only in the usual situations such as searching/filtering, deleting keywords from the keyword library, etc., but also when doing things that didn't use to cause Capture One to become unresponsive, e.g.:
• Switching to Capture One from another application
• Switching between tool tabs in Capture One
• Applying a keyword to an image
• Rating an image
• Applying/removing a colour tag
• Editing metadata
It doesn't happen always, but most of the time. I've been unable to detect any pattern to it. It makes no difference whether I have other applications open or not, and restarting Capture One doesn't help. Whether or not external hard drives are connected makes no difference either. Neither does changing hardware acceleration settings. I've verified the catalogue, and nothing appears to be wrong with it.
I've been in contact with support about this for about a month, but no help so far.
Has anyone had similar issues? I suspect this is a problem in Capture One, but if anyone's found a solution/workaround, I'd very much like to hear about it?
(MacBook Pro M1 Max, 64 GB; macOS 12.5.)
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> Thomas Kyhn: seems likely that Capture One isn’t yet entirely compatible
I have no first hand Mac knowledge myself, but the switch to M1 appears painful for users, application makers and Apple. It may well take time to stabilize.
If the demonstrated horrible slowness is a general issue with Capture One on Mac M1, I would expect to see many users confirm your observations in this thread. For all I know, affected Mac M1 users may have jumped ship and now use an alternative application.
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I think there may be two sorts of issues, one is Capture One being unexpectedly slow on fast Apple silicon Macs – not taking advantage of the available resources – another is intermittent unresponsiveness. The first issue is constant, the other happens often, though not always. But as they're both specific to Capture One on Apple silicon Macs, it seems likely that they're both related to Capture One's compatibility with this environment.
I don't remember having any trouble with other applications on my M1 Mac; everything is generally very fast, all except Capture One.
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> Thomas Kyhn: ...there may be two sorts of issues
Did you run diagnostic tools to rule out hardware issues, such as a SSD (disk) issue?
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Yes, I've run first aid on the internal disk as well as hardware diagnostics to check for issues. But considering I haven't had any issues outside of Capture One, and that Capture One is a lot less unresponsive with Rosetta turned on, it seems more the likely that the issue has to do with Capture One's M1/Apple silicon compatibility.
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> Thomas Kyhn: ...haven't had any issues outside of Capture One
That is what I understood from a previous post, the question is what is causing trouble when running Capture One.
Pure speculation on my end, but I presume your other applications do not access Capture One's data areas. A bad "spot" causing trouble when running Capture One may go undetected when running other applications. Running via the emulator (Rosetta) may make some operations more forgiving with respect to (hardware) timing issues.
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The thing is, though, that I've tried reinstalling Capture One, deleting everything related to the application before doing so, and I've tried creating a new catalogue, so it is perhaps unlikely that Capture One or the catalogue would be affected by potential bad spots both before and after, not least as I haven't had any issues with other applications, with the OS itself or with any of the many (large) files I've had on the hard drive.
I'm thinking of recreating the catalogue from a backup, just to see if it makes any difference (perhaps it could also solve this new issue). Not very likely though as it didn't make any difference last time I created a new catalogue and imported the old one into it, but perhaps worth a try.
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> Thomas Kyhn: ...I've tried reinstalling Capture One, deleting...
Sounds like you have tried the obvious things and I believe your observations. I often have to remind myself that I must not jump to conclusions no matter how true/correct observations are :-) Still, the symptoms kind of fit a struggling SSD. But then the log files, Capture One logs, system logs, ssd/disk s.m.a.r.t. logs etc, should contain clues, and I understand you also studied those. I'm sorry that I can not help, but a Mac guru may still chime in.
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Thanks for your suggestions in any case!
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@...
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried reinstalling the DxO trial (and opening it once), but I still get those DxO error messages.
I've created a new catalogue (again), this time from a backup, just to see if it makes any difference, though I doubt it does.
The company (Capture One) now claims that this issue is related to Capture One becoming unresponsive when searching/filtering and that they haven't been able to reproduce this issue either. But the searching/filtering issue is not specific to M1/Apple silicon Macs though, nor to any specific version of Capture One; I've had it since I started using Capture One. And I've seen other users with larger catalogues, including Windows users, complain about searching in Capture One being very very slow. So I really wonder why it shouldn't be possible for them to reproduce it. And I find it highly unlikely that they've never heard from other users who have this issue. Not least considering that it seems to be common knowledge that Capture One is bad at handling larger catalogues.
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I just reinstalled everything on my computer, but Capture One is equally unresponsive – when switching between folders and tool tabs, applying colour tags, etc.
I've checked the catalogue database for issues in DB Browser for SQLite too, and nothing appears to be wrong with it.
My conclusion so far is that the issue is with Capture One and not with my catalogue nor with my computer.
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The support department now says that the issue is due to Capture One's performance with larger catalogues, and that they have no plans to do anything about this.
This does not explain why the severity of the issue varies – sometimes Capture One becomes unresponsive for 1 minute and 20 seconds when I apply a keyword to a single image or change the rating of an image, sometimes it doesn't become unresponsive.
Neither does it explain why it took six months for them to reach this conclusion after persistently having claimed they were unable to reproduce the issue.
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Hi Thomas,
I don't know when or on which event C1 tries to assess whether or not an image file is offline but I think it tries to detect this on an image by image basis. At least that's what I think to remember from my experience with version 8 or so when I was using a NAS for my originals, a very small catalog though. And maybe this operation (check online status of each image) is a low performant procedure with your external HDD, or with your external HDD in combination with your specific Mac.
I would try the following: Copy all images with folders from your HDD to an SSD and see if that solves or improves the issue. If you don't have a big enough SSD then do this test with a catalog which contains as many images possible but still can be stored on the SSD.
Another test: Install C1 with the catalog on any other machine you have access to, connect your HDD, to rule out or to confirm it's your Mac model or your specific Mac machine.
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Hi BeO,
Thanks for the suggestions. That's a good idea and definitely worth trying.
There are just a few things that seem to indicate that it's unrelated to the external hard drive, for instance, when Capture One becomes unresponsive after I add a keyword, it makes no difference whether the keyword is added to one or more images. If the unresponsiveness was caused by Capture One having to check the status of each image, you should expect it to be unresponsive for a longer time if it had to check the status of more images.
Also, it doesn't always become unresponsive when I add keywords. If the unresponsiveness was caused by either the hard drive or Capture One having to check the status of each image, you should think that these factors would be constant, and not that Capture One would sometimes become unresponsive for 80 seconds and sometimes not become unresponsive at all – earlier today it was unresponsive for 80 seconds every time I added a keyword to an image, but now there's no unresponsiveness at all when adding keywords, regardless of the number of images.
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C1 has some background processing like loading next or previous images when scrolling through your collection forth or back, so I can imagine C1 also does some other stuff behind the scenes, like checking online status, even if not "triggered" by any user interaction (e.g. switching folders). Yes, that is pure speculation on my side not backed by any application.log or system analysis. I've read through the complete thread, you did a lot already to identify or mitigate the issue but you did not yet try the high-level checks like different computer or different and fast drive (similar to the check if the power cord is unplugged if the printer is not working:-)
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For a start I've moved about 9000 photos to the internal hard drive. I'm not sure yet if it make any difference; perhaps it's too few.
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A new catalog with 9k images or the old catalog with 47k on external drive (56k-9k) and 9k on internal?
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At fist I wanted to see if it made any difference with a part of the photos in my current catalogue stored on the internal drive. So far it doesn't look like it (I've had the same 80 second unresponsiveness when rating and applying colour tags to single photos on the internal drive). And a catalogue containing 9000 images is probably too small to cause Capture One to become unresponsive. In any case, I'll try and free up some more space so that I can move more images to the internal drive.
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btw, when you observe the lag e.g when tagging images, do you work in a smart album?
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I see this also in All Images. So far I haven't been able to detect any pattern at all.
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I've tried making a new catalogue with 9150 images stored on the internal SSD drive. So far I haven't seen any significant unresponsiveness, but I suspect the catalogue is much too small.
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If you kept all images in one big catalog and one or two years on internal SSD and the rest on external SSD or HDD, and provided that the lagginess doesn't occur, would this be a viable option for you?
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If keeping a part of the image files on the internal drive would solve or at least mitigate the issue I'd be glad to do that, but so far there's been no discernible difference (when using the big catalogue with 56,000 images). I've moved about 450 GB of image files to the internal drive now and don't have space for much more than that.
The thing is that Capture One doesn't always becomes unresponsive when performing small tasks like rating images. During one session it becomes unresponsive with every small action, but the next time I open it, it doesn't; it seems completely random. And as the location of the image files is a constant factor, I still doubt that it's what's causing the unresponsiveness, though of course it cannot be ruled out. The only workaround I can see right now is to shut down and reopen Capture One until it randomly stops becoming unresponsive.
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SFA
Thanks for the suggestions.
I don't use automatic backup, and don't have any backup processes running in the background (I run backup manually). As for hard drive hibernation, I would rule that out too as I've had the issue also when there's no external hard drive connected, and the issue often persists throughout a session, i.e. from Capture One is launched until it's shut down again.
It's a good idea to compare background processes, I will give that a try.
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Hi Thomas,
Can you do the majority of your work in a session and thereafter import the images to the catalog?
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Can you eventually do me a favor and test this out on your C1 installation?:
https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/8513463164061/comments/9383554609181
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Hi BeO,
Thanks for the suggestion. I rarely do all adjustments immediately after importing files to Capture One, so that wouldn't really work.
As mentioned elsewhere, using temporary catalogues for working on images would be a workaround, but it would require a way of synchronizing metadata and adjustments between two catalogues.
I'll reply in the other thread.
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