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External editor manager in v20 ?

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27 commentaires

  • Ian Wilson
    Nobody here knows what is in version 20 (we are all your fellow users) - unless they are beta testers, in which case they are not allowed to tell us.

    But what does the external editor manager in Lightroom do that you would like to see in Capture One? (I am not familiar with Lightroom.)

    Ian
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    But what does the external editor manager in Lightroom do that you would like to see in Capture One? (I am not familiar with Lightroom.)


    LR allows me to define a stable list of external editors (for the "Edit with..." command) and to specify for each external editor the export format and things like compression type for TIFF files, color space, bit depth, etc. This request is at least as old as my first version of C1, that is, v9, and I guess it's actually older.
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  • Ian Wilson
    And have you investigated the Open with menu plugin added in version 12?

    Ian
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    And have you investigated the Open with menu plugin added in version 12?


    Yes, but it doesn't help very much. The dialog box that opens (slowly - it seems to recompute the file list each time) contains parameters that apply to all editors. You can't setup each external editor separately. Re-opening this dialog each time is a time loss and an obvious source of mistakes. Once the export parameters are setup for a given editor, they should be applied automatically.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Then it sounds as though there is a feature request here that you could make to the support team.

    Ian
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    Then it sounds as though there is a feature request here that you could make to the support team.


    First request made on 26-12-2015 (never got an answer), resent on 12-10-2017, the answer was

    Thanks for your input. You are certainly not the only one with this request and I will add your case to the list for our R&D team. I don't have a timeline for implementation but be sure to check release notes in coming versions.

    Thanks again. Best regards,

    Phase One Technical Support


    Case closed immediately after that. Tried to further discuss this issue on 05-12-2017, cased closed immediately as well.

    It's hard to call this reactivity.
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  • photo by FA
    Case closed means, they have logged the request and acted upon the request. Nothing more the support staff can do and they have passed the issue to the RD team. So it is normal you see case closed.
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  • Paul Spatafora
    I suspect based on the last 2 years of new releases, there won't be a lot of new stuff. As most RAW converters are expanding their offerings to appeal to a broader audience, CO is doing the classic Kodak thing: Head buried in the sand! Relying on their loyal customer base to put up with all their shortcomings. We have been asking for improvements for years, and they never come through. A good point in question is the Plugin SDK. How many plugins are available since it was introduced? If you have a Loupedeck, you know what I mean. Instead, they offer filter packs at outrageous prices where their competitors offer them for free or at a very low cost. As I have said before, kudos to CO for this if they get away with it.

    It is the best basic RAW converter on the market that can mange highlights and it is the fastest. It's not very good with noise though. But if you want anything else above a basic RAW converter, you will have to look elsewhere. That has been my conclusion since using CO from version 7.

    Paul
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  • IanS
    [quote="NNN635018233259472077" wrote:
    I suspect based on the last 2 years of new releases, there won't be a lot of new stuff. As most RAW converters are expanding their offerings to appeal to a broader audience, CO is doing the classic Kodak thing: Head buried in the sand! Relying on their loyal customer base to put up with all their shortcomings. We have been asking for improvements for years, and they never come through. A good point in question is the Plugin SDK. How many plugins are available since it was introduced? If you have a Loupedeck, you know what I mean. Instead, they offer filter packs at outrageous prices where their competitors offer them for free or at a very low cost. As I have said before, kudos to CO for this if they get away with it.

    It is the best basic RAW converter on the market that can mange highlights and it is the fastest. It's not very good with noise though. But if you want anything else above a basic RAW converter, you will have to look elsewhere. That has been my conclusion since using CO from version 7.

    Paul


    The plugin sdk relies on third parties joining in. Photomatix are adding a plugin with the beta available for testing.
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  • ShutterSet
    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    But what does the external editor manager in Lightroom do that you would like to see in Capture One? (I am not familiar with Lightroom.)


    LR allows me to define a stable list of external editors (for the "Edit with..." command) and to specify for each external editor the export format and things like compression type for TIFF files, color space, bit depth, etc. This request is at least as old as my first version of C1, that is, v9, and I guess it's actually older.


    I just updated to 12 (currently 12.1.3.2) from 11 and am determined to become better with CO.

    I have spent two days looking for a way to do exactly this! Photoshop is there, but there are other programs in the menu structure that I do not use with CO. Plus there are plenty of others I do and can't add. Stand-alone Topaz AI programs, for example, two are there but the rest are not. So, I need to step through the file system to find the boot file. A massive waste of time and very amateur.

    Lightroom has had this for many years now!

    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    And have you investigated the Open with menu plugin added in version 12?


    Yes, but it doesn't help very much. The dialog box that opens (slowly - it seems to recompute the file list each time) contains parameters that apply to all editors. You can't setup each external editor separately. Re-opening this dialog each time is a time loss and an obvious source of mistakes. Once the export parameters are setup for a given editor, they should be applied automatically.


    This comment about "Open With" escapes me as my Open With menu is the same as Edit With menu. What am I missing? Please explain. I could maybe live with parameters applying to all...it would be better than nothing!

    Thanks for any help!

    Thom
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  • Ian Wilson
    This comment about "Open With" escapes me as my Open With menu is the same as Edit With menu.


    Yes, the plugin is called the "Open with menu" plugin, but as you rightly say, it controls the list of apps available for both Open with and Edit with.

    Ian
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  • IanS
    [quote="ShutterSet" wrote:
    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    But what does the external editor manager in Lightroom do that you would like to see in Capture One? (I am not familiar with Lightroom.)


    LR allows me to define a stable list of external editors (for the "Edit with..." command) and to specify for each external editor the export format and things like compression type for TIFF files, color space, bit depth, etc. This request is at least as old as my first version of C1, that is, v9, and I guess it's actually older.


    I just updated to 12 (currently 12.1.3.2) from 11 and am determined to become better with CO.

    I have spent two days looking for a way to do exactly this! Photoshop is there, but there are other programs in the menu structure that I do not use with CO. Plus there are plenty of others I do and can't add. Stand-alone Topaz AI programs, for example, two are there but the rest are not. So, I need to step through the file system to find the boot file. A massive waste of time and very amateur.

    Lightroom has had this for many years now!

    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    And have you investigated the Open with menu plugin added in version 12?


    Yes, but it doesn't help very much. The dialog box that opens (slowly - it seems to recompute the file list each time) contains parameters that apply to all editors. You can't setup each external editor separately. Re-opening this dialog each time is a time loss and an obvious source of mistakes. Once the export parameters are setup for a given editor, they should be applied automatically.


    This comment about "Open With" escapes me as my Open With menu is the same as Edit With menu. What am I missing? Please explain. I could maybe live with parameters applying to all...it would be better than nothing!

    Thanks for any help!

    Thom


    Programs are added to the Edit with plugin list by the OS. On Mac this is automatic but with Windows you need to use File explorer to locate an image and use the right click "open with" command to open the file. Once you have done this the program is in the list of available programs in the plugin. Would it be better if it was like Mac, yes but it is a one time set up so I don't find it that onerous a task.

    Ian
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="ShutterSet" wrote:
    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    This comment about "Open With" escapes me as my Open With menu is the same as Edit With menu. What am I missing? Please explain. I could maybe live with parameters applying to all...it would be better than nothing!


    The Open With... menu opens the image file directly in the external editor without any processing (I should say program rather than editor because it's not necessary an image editor - any program can be targeted). So export parameters are not needed.

    The Edit With… menu processes the file with its current C1 adjustments and sends the exported file to the external editor. So parameter setting dialog is opened.

    In both cases you have the same initial program list but selecting one of these programs in Edit With... opens the settings dialog box.
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  • ShutterSet
    [quote="IanS" wrote:


    Programs are added to the Edit with plugin list by the OS. On Mac this is automatic but with Windows you need to use File explorer to locate an image and use the right click "open with" command to open the file. Once you have done this the program is in the list of available programs in the plugin. Would it be better if it was like Mac, yes but it is a one time set up so I don't find it that onerous a task.



    Ian


    Ian - if I understand you correctly:

    Once I have used "Open With" and select an external program found using Windows Explorer, that program should be in the available program list for Open With (and Edit With?). Is that correct?

    I tried and it doesn't. The list hasn't changed and I still need to go through Windows Explorer every time.

    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:


    The Open With... menu opens the image file directly in the external editor without any processing (I should say program rather than editor because it's not necessary an image editor - any program can be targeted). So export parameters are not needed.

    The Edit With… menu processes the file with its current C1 adjustments and sends the exported file to the external editor. So parameter setting dialog is opened.

    In both cases you have the same initial program list but selecting one of these programs in Edit With... opens the settings dialog box.


    Thank you for this Samoreen. Most helpful!

    Happy Friday to you both,

    Thom
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  • SFA
    [quote="ShutterSet" wrote:
    [quote="IanS" wrote:



    Ian - if I understand you correctly:

    Once I have used "Open With" and select an external program found using Windows Explorer, that program should be in the available program list for Open With (and Edit With?). Is that correct?

    I tried and it doesn't. The list hasn't changed and I still need to go through Windows Explorer every time.



    Did you restart C1?

    Maybe also reboot the system since Windows is involved?
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  • IanS
    [quote="ShutterSet" wrote:
    [quote="IanS" wrote:


    Programs are added to the Edit with plugin list by the OS. On Mac this is automatic but with Windows you need to use File explorer to locate an image and use the right click "open with" command to open the file. Once you have done this the program is in the list of available programs in the plugin. Would it be better if it was like Mac, yes but it is a one time set up so I don't find it that onerous a task.



    Ian


    Ian - if I understand you correctly:

    Once I have used "Open With" and select an external program found using Windows Explorer, that program should be in the available program list for Open With (and Edit With?). Is that correct?

    I tried and it doesn't. The list hasn't changed and I still need to go through Windows Explorer every time.


    Thom


    No, you have to add the program using the Windows OS. Use file manager to locate a jpg, right click it and select "open with" from the menu and select it. The jpg will then open in whatever program you chose. This program will then be in C1Pro's "Open with" plugin. The plugin allows you to select which programs appear in the list when you use C1Pro's "Edit With" or "Open With" commands.
    I have asked Phaseone to add this instruction in the "Open With" plugin. The need to use the OS to add programs to the list catches many Windows users out and I can only put it down to a developers Mac bias and he thinks it a bit of fun to confuse Windows users who don't have the sense to use Macs 😊

    Hope I have explained it more clearly this time 😊

    Ian
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  • Rodast
    Hi Samoreen,

    I have exactly the same problem or request. I thought it would be really simple to make a 1.1 of the "Open with" Plugin with the possibility the manage an sort the programs available in Open with. In other programs this is a basic option and standard.
    But itseems to be a very difficult thing to implement. so I am still waiting an do know what is better, laughing or crying 😉
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  • IanS
    [quote="Rodast" wrote:
    Hi Samoreen,

    I have exactly the same problem or request. I thought it would be really simple to make a 1.1 of the "Open with" Plugin with the possibility the manage an sort the programs available in Open with. In other programs this is a basic option and standard.
    But itseems to be a very difficult thing to implement. so I am still waiting an do know what is better, laughing or crying 😉


    It is quite simple and straight forward to do. The programs that appear in the C1Pro plugin are added by the OS -Windows 10. The C1Pro plugin allows you to determine which programs appear when you use the C1Pro command "Open with" which sends the original raw file to whatever program you select. Or "Edit with" which sends a demosaiced RGB file to the program you select. The list of programs is the same for both C1Pro's "Open With" and "Edit With" commands.
    The check boxes in the C1Pro plugin control which programs are listed when you right click and choose "Edit With".
    It is much harder trying to write about it than actually doing it 😊

    Follow this:

    You have to add the program using the Windows OS. Use file manager to locate a jpg, right click it and select "open with" from the menu and select it. The jpg will then open in whatever program you chose. This program will then be in C1Pro's "Open with" plugin. The plugin allows you to select which programs appear in the list when you use C1Pro's "Edit With" or "Open With" commands.

    I have asked Phaseone to add this instruction in the "Open With" plugin. The need to use the OS to add programs to the list catches many Windows users out and I can only put it down to a developers Mac bias and he thinks it a bit of fun to confuse Windows users who don't have the sense to use Macs 😊

    Hope I have explained it more clearly this time 😊

    Ian
    0
  • Rodast
    [quote="IanS" wrote:
    [quote="Rodast" wrote:
    Hi Samoreen,

    I have exactly the same problem or request. I thought it would be really simple to make a 1.1 of the "Open with" Plugin with the possibility the manage an sort the programs available in Open with. In other programs this is a basic option and standard.
    But itseems to be a very difficult thing to implement. so I am still waiting an do know what is better, laughing or crying 😉


    It is quite simple and straight forward to do. The programs that appear in the C1Pro plugin are added by the OS -Windows 10. The C1Pro plugin allows you to determine which programs appear when you use the C1Pro command "Open with" which sends the original raw file to whatever program you select. Or "Edit with" which sends a demosaiced RGB file to the program you select. The list of programs is the same for both C1Pro's "Open With" and "Edit With" commands.
    The check boxes in the C1Pro plugin control which programs are listed when you right click and choose "Edit With".
    It is much harder trying to write about it than actually doing it 😊

    Follow this:

    You have to add the program using the Windows OS. Use file manager to locate a jpg, right click it and select "open with" from the menu and select it. The jpg will then open in whatever program you chose. This program will then be in C1Pro's "Open with" plugin. The plugin allows you to select which programs appear in the list when you use C1Pro's "Edit With" or "Open With" commands.

    I have asked Phaseone to add this instruction in the "Open With" plugin. The need to use the OS to add programs to the list catches many Windows users out and I can only put it down to a developers Mac bias and he thinks it a bit of fun to confuse Windows users who don't have the sense to use Macs 😊

    Hope I have explained it more clearly this time 😊

    Ian

    Hy Ian,

    I know this, because I made it often. But the List in Windows is changing often. When working a while not with C1, Windows seems to forget some of the Programs in this list, so you cannot rely on it.
    Why be dependent of Windows instead of making an own solid Solution which works also still after the next Windows Update?

    I know at least two Windows Updates in the past 5 years, where Open with has not worked correct or has had problems after installing the Update.
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  • Clau_S
    [quote="IanS" wrote:

    No, you have to add the program using the Windows OS. Use file manager to locate a jpg, right click it and select "open with" from the menu and select it. The jpg will then open in whatever program you chose. This program will then be in C1Pro's "Open with" plugin. The plugin allows you to select which programs appear in the list when you use C1Pro's "Edit With" or "Open With" commands.
    I have asked Phaseone to add this instruction in the "Open With" plugin. The need to use the OS to add programs to the list catches many Windows users out and I can only put it down to a developers Mac bias and he thinks it a bit of fun to confuse Windows users who don't have the sense to use Macs 😊

    Hope I have explained it more clearly this time 😊

    Ian


    I always thought there was a Mac bias in Phase One but that's another story. There's an annoying problem with this approach. Edit with processes the file sending a derivative raster image to the editing program. The problem is that, with a Raw file (which should be the most common type in CO) the list is composed only by the programs associated with that file extension. If the external editor is not RAW compatible for any reason it won't appear in the list unless you associate it with a file extension it cannot handle. I would prefer not to do it. The point is that it makes no sense to have a list not taking into account the output file type but only the original one.
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="ClauS" wrote:
    The problem is that, with a Raw file (which should be the most common type in CO) the list is composed only by the programs associated with that file extension. If the external editor is not RAW compatible for any reason it won't appear in the list unless you associate it with a file extension it cannot handle. I would prefer not to do it. The point is that it makes no sense to have a list not taking into account the output file type but only the original one.


    Exactly. Relying on the OS to build the program list is nonsense. That's why an external editor manager is needed, like in Lightroom. Only the user knows what programs should or shouldn't appear in that list and what export parameters should be used for each of these programs. That's easy to implement and I don't understand why we are discussing this since years.
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  • IanS
    [quote="Rodast" wrote:
    [quote="IanS" wrote:
    [quote="Rodast" wrote:
    Hi Samoreen,

    I have exactly the same problem or request. I thought it would be really simple to make a 1.1 of the "Open with" Plugin with the possibility the manage an sort the programs available in Open with. In other programs this is a basic option and standard.
    But itseems to be a very difficult thing to implement. so I am still waiting an do know what is better, laughing or crying 😉


    It is quite simple and straight forward to do. The programs that appear in the C1Pro plugin are added by the OS -Windows 10. The C1Pro plugin allows you to determine which programs appear when you use the C1Pro command "Open with" which sends the original raw file to whatever program you select. Or "Edit with" which sends a demosaiced RGB file to the program you select. The list of programs is the same for both C1Pro's "Open With" and "Edit With" commands.
    The check boxes in the C1Pro plugin control which programs are listed when you right click and choose "Edit With".
    It is much harder trying to write about it than actually doing it 😊

    Follow this:

    You have to add the program using the Windows OS. Use file manager to locate a jpg, right click it and select "open with" from the menu and select it. The jpg will then open in whatever program you chose. This program will then be in C1Pro's "Open with" plugin. The plugin allows you to select which programs appear in the list when you use C1Pro's "Edit With" or "Open With" commands.

    I have asked Phaseone to add this instruction in the "Open With" plugin. The need to use the OS to add programs to the list catches many Windows users out and I can only put it down to a developers Mac bias and he thinks it a bit of fun to confuse Windows users who don't have the sense to use Macs 😊

    Hope I have explained it more clearly this time 😊

    Ian

    Hy Ian,

    I know this, because I made it often. But the List in Windows is changing often. When working a while not with C1, Windows seems to forget some of the Programs in this list, so you cannot rely on it.
    Why be dependent of Windows instead of making an own solid Solution which works also still after the next Windows Update?

    I know at least two Windows Updates in the past 5 years, where Open with has not worked correct or has had problems after installing the Update.


    It is not a dynamic link between the C1Pro open with plugin and the windows file explorer open with. It is simply a mechanism to add them to the plugin list. Once the program is in the list it doesn't matter what you do in Windows. If you change a file association in Windows then this has no impact on the list shown in C1Pro's open with plugin. If what you are saying is happening on your machine I would register a support case, but I have never heard of this happening before with V12.

    Ian
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  • Kip Vaughan
    I didn't think the external editor feature in LR was particularly great. I would usually end up with multiple slight variations. A think there is a better way to approach this. I like how when I open a photo to edit in a photo manipulation program like PS or Affinity the default way it works is to save the changes back to the same file and if you did something wrong you could go back and make changes to the history palette. Seems less confusing that way.
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  • Michael Pegg
    Good YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3REmc9v8DQ on using Capture One with external editor (This one Affinity).
    0
  • Emile Gregoire
    Note I am working on a Mac and not Windows, but I never use the "Open with" or "Edit with" options. Instead I define process recipes, which, in the 'basic' section, offer me the option to define a program to open the processed image with. You can save a variety of processing recipes along with color spaces, sizes etc etc for each program you want to use as an external editor.

    Maybe I have misunderstood, but for me this works basically the same as my open with list in Lightroom, many many moons ago 😊
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  • teimcrr
    Hi,
    please excuse me if reopen this discussion, but I have an issue connected with the external editor list.
    In my list I have I have a program - Portrait Pro (from Anthropics Technologies) which doesn't work.
    As you can see from the list here below
    https://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r494/teimcrr/c1_zpss4ttokxj.jpg
    Portrait Pro is the only program without an icon and it is the only program which doesn't open, neither with "Edit with", nor with "Open with". However, with "Choose an app" it appears in the list of possible apps and opens normally, but doing this every time is annoying, plus the fact that in that way Portrait Pro does not behave as a plugin.
    The program is regularly registered among apps in Windows 10. I have this problem since I have upgraded Portrait Pro to v19. It was working fine until v18.
    Since I can't actually edit the list of external apps, is there anything I can do to fix the issue ?

    Thank you in advance
    Marco
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  • Edward Jenner
    OK, I haven't read all the discussion, but from the last few replies, it does not seem to have been solved.

    This is what I do to manage the list:

    F3 - plugins

    This will give you a lost of plugins you may have - for instance I have one for Helicon Focus. You can enable/disable to add/remove them from the list you see when you do 'edit with' or 'open with'

    For programs that do not have a c1 plugin, go to 'open with plugin' and you should have a list of programs you can select and deselect. I'm not sure if this list is created by the OS, C1 or is just a list you have browsed to before. If a program is not on the list then use the 'browse' option when you use 'edit with' or 'open with'.

    In any case you should be able to add programs to the list and then add and remove them at will. So you can control what is on the 'edit with' or 'open with' list of programs.

    Or am I missing something? If so, I probably don't know how to fix it.
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