color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

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34 commentaires

  • Ian Wilson
    You should expect that what you see in C1 is what you get on output. But what are you using to view the output files? Do they look like that in every app you try them in? What ICC profile is shown in the Export or Process dialog box?

    Ian
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  • SFA
    [quote="NN103673UL" wrote:

    Thx for help - is there an option to send a picture/hardcopy showing the problem?


    Host the image somewhere from which you can share it via a link.

    Create the link and post it here. Ideally this would be for optional viewing rather than embedding the image.

    Grant
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  • NN103673UL
    thx for your answer. - I see the difference on the same screen - opening the tiff/jpg next by the C1-picture
    this discontinuities of hue appears when I work with HDR-filter in C1
    and No I have no problems using HDR in LR6 on the same configuration/PC. So for the moment I export colorcorrected pics to LR6 as tiff - ...
    I opened from C1 to "export to PS / Irfan / paint" same result and I opened the files from a laptob Win8/Irfan ...same results.
    see a hardcopy : http://www.5zu1.de/pics/c1_export_disco ... hue_01.jpg
    My hardware : PC-amd 3700 + amd-5700 graphic driver from Sept. 23.
    Thx in advance kajot
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  • NNN635636448355960533
    Hello, the same problem here. This time with Fujifilm RAF exported to JPEG or TIFF. It does not matter which viewer I use exported images images are screwed in the same way as OPs. This happens as soon as I touch Highlights/Shadows sliders in C1. I'm evaluating C1 so my license is C1 Fujifilm Pro trial. Hardware is:
    CPU: Ryzen 9 3900x
    GPU: AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT
    Logged support call but still waiting for response. Glad did not buy this stuff as it may be incompatible with my hardware or just buggy.
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  • NN103673UL
    hmm answer from support :
    Issues which may be related to OpenCL

    - Scrambled or somewhat 'glitched' previews when making adjustments

    - Crashes when processing/exporting images

    - Artifacts in processed images

    - Slow processing times

    - Slow mask drawing

    - Crash when opening Capture One

    The first thing to do would be to see if the above issues disappear when setting OpenCL to 'Never'. This can be found in Preferences > General > Hardware Acceleration (Use OpenCL for) --> never/never

    ok that is working . But without openGL !!? hmm
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  • SFA
    [quote="NN103673UL" wrote:


    ok that is working . But without openGL !!? hmm


    OPEN CL not GL.

    This often means a problem with the driver for the GPU so it's worth assessing which version of the driver is installed.

    Sometimes, with OS updates, the latest driver is the best option.

    Sometimes the 'latest' driver may be made available with a few problems of its own and going back a release or two may be worth trying.

    The first thing to try is to ensure that C1 has managed to correctly and fully build the kernel it needs for the for the GPU driver. There is a log file that may give some indication about that.

    Did support point you towards the Knowledge Base article that tells you how to force renewal of the kernel creation if required once you had tested the process without hardware acceleration?


    Grant
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  • NN103673UL
    yes they told me some steps but ...
    0.as described : without hardware acceleration the effect disappears : presets-- hardware acceleration : never/never

    1. delede files in C:\Users\All Users\Phase One\Capture One\ImageCore - all will be rebuild after restart of C1
    yes ICOLbin/...xml/..._all.xml are rebuilt.
    2. in C1 switch on "view--sharpness".While zooming the colour should disappear.
    ok, all sharp parts are green - but when zooming they are still green and 'NOT without color while zooming (as described as a working OpenCL) - no OpenCL?? or is the GPU "only" fast. - because zooming is very fast (the amd5700 is a PCIe4-graphic-card)

    3. they told me to change in registry computer/.../software/...intelocl64.dll - I have no Intel-GPU , I have an amd-GPU in this PC (amdocl64.dll's in different registry-subdirectories) - so I am waiting for next answer.
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  • SFA
    I have never seen the "sharpness test" work as described.

    I have a GPU meter program but that's for Win 7 and probably would not work on Win 10.

    Does Win 10 have its own performance monitoring programs?

    NVidia GPU software has some ability to identify the programs that are using the GPU. Does you card have something similar?

    The log files should indicate whether the kernel rebuild has worked.

    No errors and a faster output file processing time (for a measurable batch of images) would be another indication.

    If you have rebuilt the kernel and the output images now look ok with Hardware Acceleration turned on again all should be well.


    Grant
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  • NN103673UL
    thanks Grant
    yes it is working fine - and without a change in registry
    here is what I mean : it is the view /sharpnessmask in C1
    http://5zu1.de/pics/view-sharpnessmask_01.jpg
    it is in german but I think you find this button
    and I will look where I can find the "status of OpenCL" by googling
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  • NN103673UL
    back again
    OpenCL with amd-RX 5700 is not working correct. My error was to say too fast that it is working. I forgot to look at C1 that was reconfigured (for 5min!) after I deleded C:\Users\All Users\Phase One\Capture One\ImageCore\ICOCL*. During this 5min the C1 did go on working without OpenCL . Afterwards the bending ( haha the solarization-look) appears again. Now I will wait for an update - NOT using OpenCL, one of the advertised unique features of C1. Ka Jot
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  • NNN635636448355960533
    I've received good communication from C1 support guys who confirmed that sometimes newer hardware is not performing as it should due to many factors, for example: changes to OpenCL.
    So, ATM I'm suspending my trial of C1 (which is a pity as really liked the software) and hoping for a fix in not too distant future.
    One good thing that came out of this: C1 support is quick and informative. Another feather in C1s cap.
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  • Robert Whetton
    [quote="NN103673UL" wrote:
    back again
    OpenCL with amd-RX 5700 is not working correct. My error was to say too fast that it is working. I forgot to look at C1 that was reconfigured (for 5min!) after I deleded C:\Users\All Users\Phase One\Capture One\ImageCore\ICOCL*. During this 5min the C1 did go on working without OpenCL . Afterwards the bending ( haha the solarization-look) appears again. Now I will wait for an update - NOT using OpenCL, one of the advertised unique features of C1. Ka Jot

    can you supply the RAW file so other users can try on their systems? 😊
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN635636448355960533" wrote:
    I've received good communication from C1 support guys who confirmed that sometimes newer hardware is not performing as it should due to many factors, for example: changes to OpenCL.
    So, ATM I'm suspending my trial of C1 (which is a pity as really liked the software) and hoping for a fix in not too distant future.
    One good thing that came out of this: C1 support is quick and informative. Another feather in C1s cap.



    Is the use of Hardware Acceleration via a GPU, as opposed to simply processing without the GPU and maybe losing a little speed, a critical part of your general assessment?

    For your Fuji camera you can of course continue to use the Fuji Express version for assessment, albeit with some limitations for available functionality.


    Grant
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  • Christian Gruner
    Is it a Color shift you see, or false color/artifacts appearing?


    Please post screenshots and provide the raw-file including adjustments (I.e. in a .eip file)
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  • NN103673UL
    Grant you ask us the right thing : Is the use of Hardware Acceleration via a GPU ...important.
    I will say : NO - this newer systems (amd+8core-architecture) are very fast also without GPU-use ( less than with OpenCL "on"). the only reason to switch hardware acceleration"off" is this "color demolition" .
    I compared C1-12 on this PC with LR6-14 (the last version without this stylish "cloud use") using while I had this gradient-errors without a solution in C1.
    LR6-14 was slower - after a while painting (to lighten shadows, to darken pointed lights,set accents... system becomes slower and slower and i had to restart the system after some time - I need long for one picture.
    In C1-12 now I can do this in a tenth time incl. colorcorrection at a higher level, believe me.
    LR is not so bad in many cases as sometimes told but C1 is very important for me in my image design.
    I am painting with light and no longer need PS-CSxx or LR7-xx "clouded" and far away on s.o.'s server.
    KaJot
    To Christian : read the whole text and you will find this http://www.5zu1.de/pics/c1_export_disco ... hue_01.jpg
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  • SFA
    KaJot,

    I think Christian was asking for a Support Case to be created with a sample problem file (From the Fuji user?) complete with the edit instructions that were being applied (The EIP file option).

    I suspect the problem they are seeing on output is somewhat different to your ARW problem although the root cause may be related.

    Your ARW example looks quite specific for a part of the colour range in the image that appears to have been "flattened".

    The tool settings in your screen shot suggest that the Levels tool is trying to stretch quite a lot of the lighter tones while the HDR tool is somewhat compressing them again, perhaps.

    Are there any other tools on play not shown here?

    It would be interesting to see the various versions of the histograms.

    Also the output process settings for whatever you have set as the active recipe (maybe NOT set by intention!).

    I'm not suggesting that no part of your results are connected to a hardware/firmware/software "glitch" but rather that there may be some component in your adjustments that causes such a glitch to become especially obvious for this image and others like it.

    A typical GPU driver problem presents more random visual errors with miss processed areas of the image, lines, pixellation and so on. Spatial errors rather than just colour processing errors. Your example may be a variation on that but possibly linked to the edit values being applied rather than some sort of random looking effect.

    If you are happy to share the file and your edits (via a file sharing service) I would be happy to take a look at it to see if I get the same sort of result using my relatively old hardware, low power GPU and Windows 7!

    Grant
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  • NN103673UL
    Hi Grant
    A) Three new pic’s – will show more than my bad english 😉

    B) http://www.5zu1.de/pics/OpenCL-prob_01.jpg

    http://www.5zu1.de/pics/OpenCL-prob_02.jpg
    http://www.5zu1.de/pics/OpenCL-prob_03.jpg
    I opened an issue/call/… at the supportline and they told me in a first statement following.
    ______________________________________________________________________________
    Supporter :
    Hello!
    Thank you for reaching out to us and for your interest in Capture One.
    We've encounter a few OpenCL/Rendering issues with the newly released AMD Radeon 5700/5700XT.
    I would kindly ask you to try rebuilding the OpenCL kernel by following the guide below, and/or disabling it completely in preferences:
    https://www.phaseone.com/en/Search/Arti ... nguageid=1
    _____________________________________________________________
    My answer

    thank you for your fast reply.
    First step (...never/never) is working . Deleding "ImageCore-folder"-content also works and was refilled after C1-reopening.
    trying "view--sharpening"-marker by zooming the pic shows me continuos green fields. - no OpenCL?
    Second step in registry is not possible because I have no intel-based GPU, I have an amd-X5700 based GPU with "amdocl64.dll"....etc. ... [From here go to: Computer\HKEY_Local_Machine\SOFTWARE\Khronos***\OpenCL\Vendors
    Right-click on IntelOpenCL64.dll]
    ***there is no path with name Khronos and no IntelOpenCL64.dll in the whole registry.
    so perhaps you can tell me the reg-key for amdocl64...
    _________________________________________________________
    …and in a second answer I told them that it is not working!
    And now I should send a arw-file.
    ____________________________________________________________
    And indeed kernel / OpenCL was rebuilted and NOT working for the first 5min.
    After rebuilting the effect was shown again.
    Histogramm :
    The histogramm is moving, you may look at picture 2

    I also have used a log-file to show the use oft he GPU and indeed harware acceleration with OpenCL is working (pic 3)
    but the results are as described.

    Components/services/....
    there may be some component in your adjustments“ : mybe a service ? driver ? ( i used first amd-driver for RX-5700, 23.Sept.2019, later on newest from 30.Sept.2019 ( interesting ! only one!! week later : all have problems with the new hardware, believe me) but no difference in picture-results.

    „using my relatively old hardware, low power GPU and Windows 7“ : hmm Grant, I tried it on my „old“ laptop from 2015 with WIN8.1 and a GeForce GTX860M : NO!!! problem. Results are fine.
    So I come back to the first sentence of the supporter : We've encounter a few OpenCL/Rendering issues with the newly released AMD Radeon 5700/5700XT.
    I will inform you after sending a file to the support – and I will search in my WIN10 if there are a negativ effect by switching off services etc…
    Thx to Grant and as I told, I will inform you
    KaJot
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  • Robert Whetton
    AMD should be aware of the problem now also
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  • NNN635636448355960533

    Is the use of Hardware Acceleration via a GPU, as opposed to simply processing without the GPU and maybe losing a little speed, a critical part of your general assessment?

    For your Fuji camera you can of course continue to use the Fuji Express version for assessment, albeit with some limitations for available functionality.



    I've noticed that without hardware acceleration editing is visibly slower, i.e.: a lag when making selections, moving sliders, etc, is somewhat distracting. Having said that, export function with no OpenCL is almost as quick as with it. ATM I'm using Express to do basic adjustments and export while further editing is done in other software.
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  • NNN635636448355960533
    Just downloaded and installed latest driver for the GPU, rebuilt kernels and tested export. Unfortunately the issue is still present. I can confirm that the only adjustment (in Express) that is causing undesired artifacts in the exported image is HDR adjustment. If HDR is left untouched, exported image does not exhibit any problems.
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  • NNN635636448355960533
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    Is it a Color shift you see, or false color/artifacts appearing?


    Please post screenshots and provide the raw-file including adjustments (I.e. in a .eip file)



    Hi Christian
    Not sure if you wanted my screenshots? If you did then I'd attached two to my support case 343378. Let me know if you require more info. From my testing it appears that the HDR adjustments, either highlights or shadows are the only ones that trigger fake colour and artifacts. I've never observed any problems of the kind when all other adjustments were used.
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  • Robert Whetton
    can you supply one of the RAW files to Download?
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  • NNN635636448355960533
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    can you supply one of the RAW files to Download?

    Try to download this one:
    http://ksnausphoto.com/books/_DSF6613.RAF
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN635636448355960533" wrote:
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    can you supply one of the RAW files to Download?

    Try to download this one:
    http://ksnausphoto.com/books/_DSF6613.RAF


    I'm not sure what I should be looking for with this image but the only things I can see that might not be as expected are what look like a few hot pixels. So far as I have assessed they are always there and do not change. They require Spot removal actions to eliminate them - single pixel adjustments don't seem to work.

    That may be something to do with being a RAF file -I'm not sure as I don't have a Fuji camera so I'm not up to date with any background technical information.

    That said they could also be just dust fragments brightly lit by the flash. The dark clothing and background combined with the resolution of the image readily show up even the smallest details in that respect.

    I have tried a few different settings with some extreme HDR adjustments included and none of them produce unexpected results of an appearance that is significantly different in any way from the on-screen presentation.

    This is with C12.1.1 currently running on WIn 7 with an ancient and low power NVidia Quadro GPU.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Robert Whetton
    [quote="NNN635636448355960533" wrote:
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    can you supply one of the RAW files to Download?

    Try to download this one:
    http://ksnausphoto.com/books/_DSF6613.RAF

    What happens when you use the HDR on this shot? Would have been best to upload the same RAW as you were showing in the JPGs
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  • SFA
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    [quote="NNN635636448355960533" wrote:
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    can you supply one of the RAW files to Download?

    Try to download this one:
    http://ksnausphoto.com/books/_DSF6613.RAF

    What happens when you use the HDR on this shot? Would have been best to upload the same RAW as you were showing in the JPGs


    We have not seen the images from this poster as my understanding is that they were provided as part of a Support Case not posted somewhere visible to the forum.

    So I don't know what we should be looking for but in any case I'm not seeing any problems related to HDR tool usage on my system configuration.

    Obviously that's not much help to the poster but does suggest the problem is not generic for C1.


    Grant
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  • NN103673UL
    hello again
    first . please read this first - yes I know it is very long and longer text is not read . NN103673UL » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:41 pm

    second : some answers
    I use Sony with arw.files and I am the one opening this here
    And as it seems it is not only a „Sony-problem“ – thats good – look at the end of the text
    answer to
    NNN635636448355960533

    "I've noticed that without hardware acceleration editing is visibly slower....."
    Answer : No, not slower, not at my Computer ( using RX5700 + >> PCIe4-M.2-ssd-hard disks + DDR4-3000, CL15-17-17-35 ) There is „only“ the color-shift/solarization of colors as described with OpenCL "on". Question : PCIe3?-grapic? what system do you use?
    use the newest driver
    I tried driver from 23.09.2019 ; 30.09.2019 and now 04.10.2019 no difference

    answer to
    Bobtographer RAW-file :

    I sent one to the support
    And as I told, I will inform you about the results.
    For the moment the supporter told me that he will submit a bug report to the development team
    Kajot
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  • NNN635636448355960533
    Just to clarify a bit as this discussion becomes a bit "confused".

    Firstly: someone requested an example of a raw file which upon export to jpeg might be showing artifacts. I provided that however, this issue is not related to just raw files. So, the discussion about the raw file is pointless.

    Secondly: my hardware has been specified in my original post to this forum. Please look it up.

    Thirdly: the issue has been narrowed down to particular OpenCL implementation as it comes with GPU AMD Radeon 5700 series. And this is "end of", at least for me.
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  • westbild
    I experience the same problems on export and have some problems with the GPU-acceleration during normal work too (images have banding, look sometimes a bit solarized). I use the AMD Radeon 5700 too (XT-Version) and tried the usual solutions (new open CL Kernel, takes about 1 hour but doesn't help). I also installed the newest drivers for my Card.

    My question is:
    Has anyone a Win10-System, that can use the hardware-accelaration with a Radeon 5700 successfully?
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  • SFA
    [quote="westbild" wrote:
    I experience the same problems on export and have some problems with the GPU-acceleration during normal work too (images have banding, look sometimes a bit solarized). I use the AMD Radeon 5700 too (XT-Version) and tried the usual solutions (new open CL Kernel, takes about 1 hour but doesn't help). I also installed the newest drivers for my Card.

    My question is:
    Has anyone a Win10-System, that can use the hardware-accelaration with a Radeon 5700 successfully?


    If it takes an hour there is certainly a problem.

    What does the log file tell you?

    Have you created a Support Case?


    Grant
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