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Masking performance

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33 commentaires

  • GrahamB3
    I built a new system in September, replacing an Intel i7-3770K from 2012. I'm using a Ryzen 2700x 8 core, 32GB ram, and a Nvidia 1060 6GB GPU. My OS and Apps are on a NVMe drive, and my scratch disk is a 2nd NVMe drive. I'm using 2 monitors, a 24" 1080P, and a 27" 4K. I process images from a 7360 x 4912 (36.2 MB) sensor.

    C1 12 Pro is running well on my system, with no discernible lags. I've made extensive use of the luminescence mask feature. Many things can inhibit system performance. One of the best investments are SSD's (solid state drives). You'll see a big improvement using a SSD with a SATA 6 GBs interface. Newer NVMe (PCIE interface) drives are faster still.

    I suggest you try several software solutions. Install the latest drivers for your video card. Make sure your OS is up to date. Check that C1 is using hardware acceleration (edit>preferences>general).

    Graham
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  • Robert Łysakowski
    Thanks for the post, I will need to check it on my desktop, perhaps it's my laptop?

    BTW - what are your settings related to the image preview sizes?

    Anybody here using DEll XPS 15 9570 4k laptop?
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  • Joeri Peeters
    No problems on my alienware from 2017.

    I also have a XPS15 from 2014 and it is also fast enough. However I must say the graphic card in the XPS has bad performance in 4K.
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  • racin06
    I have the Dell XPS 9570 with I9 CPU, 32gb RAM, Quadro P2000 graphics card and 1TB SSD drive. CO is running very poorly and the fan on my Dell runs continuously. Even moving the exposure slider causes the fan to ramp up and the result is very laggy. Masks and the crop tool are both laggy when moving around with the mouse. However, I can edit and render 4K video in Adobe Premiere Pro CC without any problems! This is so frustrating!
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  • SFA
    [quote="racin06" wrote:
    I have the Dell XPS 9570 with I9 CPU, 32gb RAM, Quadro P2000 graphics card and 1TB SSD drive. CO is running very poorly and the fan on my Dell runs continuously. Even moving the exposure slider causes the fan to ramp up and the result is very laggy. Masks and the crop tool are both laggy when moving around with the mouse. However, I can edit and render 4K video in Adobe Premiere Pro CC without any problems! This is so frustrating!



    Have you got separate fans for CPU and GPU?

    If so can you tell is one is running harder than the other and which one it is?

    If things are getting hot for either (and I would not be surprised if they are given the spec. and subject to how you have the power management settings set) then the device is probably cutting back on performance.

    When my Precision M4700 starts to run the fan(s) all the time I check the heat sinks. It doesn't take much dust in the ducting to noticeable ramp up the fan use and speed. My system is well below yours on spec and I'm not running anything close to a 4k screen.

    That said performance is more adversely affected by how many tabs I have open in Firefox than what I am working on in C1.

    Grant
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  • racin06
    I have solved the problem. Firstly, I have the Dell Precision 5530, not the XPS 9570. I don't know what I was thinking! However, both laptops are similar. How did I solve the problem? I simply uninstalled and re-installed the Nvidia GPU drivers. That's it! CO now runs very quick and smooth with no lagging.
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  • GrahamB3
    [quote="racin06" wrote:
    I have solved the problem. Firstly, I have the Dell Precision 5530, not the XPS 9570. I don't know what I was thinking! However, both laptops are similar. How did I solve the problem? I simply uninstalled and re-installed the Nvidia GPU drivers. That's it! CO now runs very quick and smooth with no lagging.


    Great that you got the problem sorted.

    It's amazing the number of problems that people experience with GPU drivers. I've never installed Nvidia's "Experience", which claims to keep your system up to date. I do schedule Google Calendar to remind me monthly to check for driver updates.
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  • Robert Łysakowski
    [quote="racin06" wrote:
    I have solved the problem. Firstly, I have the Dell Precision 5530, not the XPS 9570. I don't know what I was thinking! However, both laptops are similar. How did I solve the problem? I simply uninstalled and re-installed the Nvidia GPU drivers. That's it! CO now runs very quick and smooth with no lagging.


    This is interesting... what is the screen resolution you use for editing in CO?
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  • GrahamB3
    My preview cache (edit>preferences>image>preview size) is set in C1 at 3840. I edit with my 27" 4k monitor at 3840 x 2160.
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  • racin06
    Same resolution settings for me.
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  • Robert Łysakowski
    If you use external monitor it's a difference.
    In my case when I attach an external monitor (I have LG ultrawide UHD) it also works fine. It seems that Dell use nVidia GPU for external monitoris.
    The issue persist when I only disconnect the monitor and work on the laptop screen (4K).
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  • Robert Łysakowski
    Ok, looks like resolved case - I contacted support and received the link to the following page:

    https://www.phaseone.com/en/Search/Arti ... nguageid=1

    I followed the steps and it has improved a lot. Perphaps somebody will find it useful...
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  • racin06
    Well, I thought my problems were solved (see above posts); however, I had yet to try a mask. When doing so and enabling the masking area to be visible, the red masking area lags quite a bit behind from the house movement when drawing the mask. I also tried the above solution and the masking still lags. Any solutions? Thanks.
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  • SFA
    [quote="racin06" wrote:
    Well, I thought my problems were solved (see above posts); however, I had yet to try a mask. When doing so and enabling the masking area to be visible, the red masking area lags quite a bit behind from the house movement when drawing the mask. I also tried the above solution and the masking still lags. Any solutions? Thanks.


    Any sort of mask or one or more of the specific types?

    There is quite a lot going on when you are drawing a mask - depending on the image.

    I'm wondering if there are any techniques you could use to speed up the process for your particular needs.


    Grant
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  • racin06
    I'm referring to drawing a mask using the brush tool.
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  • Robert Whetton
    I noticed a huge performance hit with masks from 11 to 12..
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  • Robert Łysakowski
    Same for me.
    Even though I was initially happy with the solution proposed by CO support, it went back to 'normal' bad performance.
    I noticed that CO12 uses a CPU very extensively, much more than the GPU.
    If I compare it to Affinity Photo or Photoshop it's nowhere near in terms of consistency of the performance.
    Unfortunately I do not have any other solution than to lower my resolution on laptop, otherwise it's simply not usable.
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  • GrahamB3
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    I noticed a huge performance hit with masks from 11 to 12..


    I'm curious what about your "performance hit". What files, what type mask?

    I don't notice any discernible wait, maybe a second at most, for luminosity or color masks. Gradient masks are instantaneous. That's on 36mb raw files.
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  • Robert Łysakowski
    I work with Fuji XT-2 RAW files. With 'masking' I refer to painting in with brush tool or erasing the mask, regardless of the adjustment applied. I even tried on empty layer, no adjustment applied and it was lagging.
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  • IanS
    [quote="NNN636230264981578721" wrote:
    I expierience serious lagging while working with masks. Regardless if I draw a mask or erase it - it's simply sluggish and lags behind the moves of the brush. CPU utilization jumps to 100%, it's just really slooooow.

    I have Dell XPS with I7 CPU and 32gb RAM, SSD drive. HArdware accelarion seems to be set up (at least I can see the CO is setting this up) but that does not change too much.

    I even rasterized the Luma layer (but were working on a different one) to eliminate any potential impact. Still not real improvement.
    It's significantly slower then CO11 which I used on the same image and did the same mask.
    I have Wacom Intous Pro and it's pretty unusable with such response. I move the pen and CO is busy with itself.
    I am happy I still work on trial.

    p.s. Photoshop in the same operations is just a breeze. Why CO can't?


    Sounds like you might want to try updating the video drivers. If you look at the Preferences under General it says whether C1Pro V12 is using hardware acceleration or not.

    Just tried V12 on a XPS 13 with 3200x1800 display and the brush mask is responsive. The Auto mask does take several seconds to calculate, but as the XPS 13 is a thin & light laptop that is unsurprising 😊
    Tested on D850 file.

    Ian
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  • Robert Łysakowski
    I just did a test. Changed the resolution back to 4k and started painting in a new layer on unedited file.
    It starts pretty well, but the longer I work on it the worse it behaves. After some 15-20 mins of editing and playing with the file, it becomes so slow, that even moving the cursor away from the picture (for example to adjust some sliders), it still shows the brush tool cursor, only after few seconds it turns back to pointer.
    It might be also an issue with the laptop itself - the model which I have is known for thermal throttling issues and it might be the case for the one I have. On the other side, it must be also something to do with CO12 itself so it puts so much load on the powerful system like this. As mentioned - Photoshop or Affinity does not even come close to this level.
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  • Robert Whetton
    [quote="GrahamB3" wrote:
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    I noticed a huge performance hit with masks from 11 to 12..


    I'm curious what about your "performance hit". What files, what type mask?

    I don't notice any discernible wait, maybe a second at most, for luminosity or color masks. Gradient masks are instantaneous. That's on 36mb raw files.

    Grab the brush, start brushing in V11 and it acts real time. If I grab the brush in V12 and I watch it crawl across my screen with about half a second lag- CPU hits 97% in both versions.
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636230264981578721" wrote:
    I just did a test. Changed the resolution back to 4k and started painting in a new layer on unedited file.
    It starts pretty well, but the longer I work on it the worse it behaves. After some 15-20 mins of editing and playing with the file, it becomes so slow, that even moving the cursor away from the picture (for example to adjust some sliders), it still shows the brush tool cursor, only after few seconds it turns back to pointer.
    It might be also an issue with the laptop itself - the model which I have is known for thermal throttling issues and it might be the case for the one I have. On the other side, it must be also something to do with CO12 itself so it puts so much load on the powerful system like this. As mentioned - Photoshop or Affinity does not even come close to this level.


    But PS and Affinity both have origins in Graphics Editing rather than RAW file processing.

    Moreover the various that are seemingly the equivalent of layers do not appear to be especially quick to use when they apply their changes or certainly Affinity doe not (I don't have PS so cannot try it). And no matter what I do in the PS/Affinity type products the UI and the multiple steps to achieve anything are completely unintuitive to me and have been for years. Even after watching many tutorials and "how to use" videos.

    I guess it's a matter of what one is used to and how one's brain works.

    I recall a time about 16 years ago when I and a couple of friends were trying to work out how to something that seemed quite a simple activity using PS (of some variety). Despite one of them having a couple of very detailed "how to" books working on a step by step guide basis we never did get to grips with it.

    Grant
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  • Irvin Gomez
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="NNN636230264981578721" wrote:
    I just did a test. Changed the resolution back to 4k and started painting in a new layer on unedited file.
    It starts pretty well, but the longer I work on it the worse it behaves. After some 15-20 mins of editing and playing with the file, it becomes so slow, that even moving the cursor away from the picture (for example to adjust some sliders), it still shows the brush tool cursor, only after few seconds it turns back to pointer.
    It might be also an issue with the laptop itself - the model which I have is known for thermal throttling issues and it might be the case for the one I have. On the other side, it must be also something to do with CO12 itself so it puts so much load on the powerful system like this. As mentioned - Photoshop or Affinity does not even come close to this level.


    But PS and Affinity both have origins in Graphics Editing rather than RAW file processing.

    Moreover the various that are seemingly the equivalent of layers do not appear to be especially quick to use when they apply their changes or certainly Affinity doe not (I don't have PS so cannot try it). And no matter what I do in the PS/Affinity type products the UI and the multiple steps to achieve anything are completely unintuitive to me and have been for years. Even after watching many tutorials and "how to use" videos.

    I guess it's a matter of what one is used to and how one's brain works.

    I recall a time about 16 years ago when I and a couple of friends were trying to work out how to something that seemed quite a simple activity using PS (of some variety). Despite one of them having a couple of very detailed "how to" books working on a step by step guide basis we never did get to grips with it.

    Grant


    Weird, because all Capture One is doing nowadays, the very high upgrades you are paying for, is introducing very rudimentary versions of tools that Photoshop has had for more than two decades.
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  • GrahamB3
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    [quote="GrahamB3" wrote:
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    I noticed a huge performance hit with masks from 11 to 12..


    I'm curious what about your "performance hit". What files, what type mask?

    I don't notice any discernible wait, maybe a second at most, for luminosity or color masks. Gradient masks are instantaneous. That's on 36mb raw files.

    Grab the brush, start brushing in V11 and it acts real time. If I grab the brush in V12 and I watch it crawl across my screen with about half a second lag- CPU hits 97% in both versions.


    That's interesting. It's apparent that on your system there is a problem with v12 masking.

    As an experiment, I used both my mouse, and a Wacom tablet to draw a mask on a layer on my 4k monitor. I varied the brush size, flow rate, and opacity. I didn't observe any lag.

    My system (AMD Ryzen 2700x, 32GB ram, Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB) is similar to yours, but I use Nvidia while you use an AMD GPU. You've probably already checked that you're using the latest GPU drivers, and that your OS is current. Hopefully, the P1 tech gurus can sort your problem.
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  • racin06
    I have an update and have seemed to have improved the masking performance in C1. First of all, I had yet to do the following as previously recommended in this thread:

    - Ensure that OpenCL is set to 'Auto' in your preferences
    - Reset adjustments on an image
    - Enable the focus mask by going to View > Show Focus Mask
    - Bring up the exposure slider gradually

    When I did the above, I discovered that my C1 was not in OpenCL mode even though the Hardware Acceleration (Using OpenCL) was set at Auto for both Display and Processing. So, I toggled both settings from Auto to Never and back to Auto, closed and restarted C1, performed the above once again and confirmed that C1 was indeed running in OpenCL. Below are two videos shot with my phone of me painting a brushed mask in C1. The first video is without OpenCl enabled and the second video is with OpenCL enabled. As you can see, the masking operation performs much better with OpenCL enabled, thought not perfect, but usable to me. As you can also see, without OpenCL enabled, the masking performance is very laggy. I'll be looking to make even more tweaks to improve the masking performance.

    Without OpenCL:

    With OpenCL:

    Just to reiterate my laptop specs:

    Dell Precision 5530
    Intel i9-8950HK Processor
    32GB RAM
    Nvidia Quadro P2000 GPU
    1TB SSD
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  • Robert Łysakowski
    I had the same findings as you few posts above. Unfortunately the improvement has not been sustainable and I was pushed back to lower resolution to be able to work with masking. I am also reviewing other programs like On Raw or Luminar, which basically are not really better in terms of performance and are lagging much more extensive than CO12.
    I think that in my case (Dell xps 15, i7, 32gb, nVidia 9050ti) the issue is related to the laptop thermals and the performance is impacted by the insufficient cooling. It might be similar for you, given the more powerful Cpu. Please keep us updated on your findings.
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  • racin06
    Yes, no doubt, my laptop is subject to thermal throttling. I have a cooling pad on the way via Amazon to see if I can squeeze some more performance out of my laptop. I'm also considering experimenting with undervolting the CPU via the Throttlestop software. I also have Luminar 3 and it performs horribly on my laptop. Lastly, I never disclosed that I shoot Fujifilm and am editing RAW files from the X-T3. I will keep you all posted if make additional changes.
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  • Robert Whetton
    [quote="GrahamB3" wrote:


    That's interesting. It's apparent that on your system there is a problem with v12 masking.

    As an experiment, I used both my mouse, and a Wacom tablet to draw a mask on a layer on my 4k monitor. I varied the brush size, flow rate, and opacity. I didn't observe any lag.

    My system (AMD Ryzen 2700x, 32GB ram, Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB) is similar to yours, but I use Nvidia while you use an AMD GPU. You've probably already checked that you're using the latest GPU drivers, and that your OS is current. Hopefully, the P1 tech gurus can sort your problem.

    Well, from the CPU usage on both version OCL isn't being used.. My V12 trial has expired, so I can't do anymore testing.. but the performance of the masks is the main reason why I haven't purchased 12
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  • Robert Łysakowski
    [quote="racin06" wrote:
    Yes, no doubt, my laptop is subject to thermal throttling. I have a cooling pad on the way via Amazon to see if I can squeeze some more performance out of my laptop. I'm also considering experimenting with undervolting the CPU via the Throttlestop software. I also have Luminar 3 and it performs horribly on my laptop. Lastly, I never disclosed that I shoot Fujifilm and am editing RAW files from the X-T3. I will keep you all posted if make additional changes.


    I also work with Fuji raw files, XT-2 in my case.
    What's the resolution you work with? I am on 3840x2160 scaled to 175% so I can see texts.
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