Upgrade pricing

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44 commentaires

  • AllMediaLab
    Hi,
    Yes I purchased Capture 10 5 month's ago and now they ask almost half the price for an upgrade again.
    This is out of proportion and makes it a very expensive application.
    Can not imagine that Phase One Capture One users are excepting this!

    Regards,
    David
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  • kieth kiesel
    For what you get with Ver. 11 the price is just not worth it. Well, back to Photoshop.
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636349561883089586" wrote:
    Yes I purchased Capture 10 5 month's ago and now they ask almost half the price for an upgrade again.
    This is out of proportion and makes it a very expensive application.


    "Very" expensive?

    How much does your photographic equipment cost you in depreciation every year?
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  • AllMediaLab
    Hi,

    When I compare it to Steinberg Cubase and Wavelab, 2 applications I use they both cost €579,- but a upgrade is €59.99




    Think there is a bit more going on in a professional sound recording application then Capture One 10.
    I can see that you are a long time user of Capture One so you are used to the price policy of Phase One and I can understand when you slowly see the policy evolving that it sounds normal to you (half the price of a software product for an upgrade after 5 months of buying the full version and experiencing lots of bugs!!!).

    I think it's not in proportion. But that's only my personal opinion so don't get too excited 😄 !

    Regards,

    David
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  • John Wright
    They need to make money so the upgrade pricing doesn't bother me (and isn't bad compared to some other photo editing software annual updates).

    The only thing I'd say is they need a bit more of a "grace period" for new purchasers. What would be really intelligent would be if their website automatically applied a sliding scale. In other words say you bought the previous version a year ago thus you'd be charged full upgrade price, but if you bought it only a month ago then you'd pay 1/12th the price (aka about $10) and for example purchase six months ago would translate to an upgrade costing only half the normal amount).
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  • Irvin Gomez
    [quote="NNN636419688699306607" wrote:
    They need to make money so the upgrade pricing doesn't bother me (and isn't bad compared to some other photo editing software annual updates).

    The only thing I'd say is they need a bit more of a "grace period" for new purchasers. What would be really intelligent would be if their website automatically applied a sliding scale. In other words say you bought the previous version a year ago thus you'd be charged full upgrade price, but if you bought it only a month ago then you'd pay 1/12th the price (aka about $10) and for example purchase six months ago would translate to an upgrade costing only half the normal amount).


    I agree 100%.

    Bought in the middle of August - hard to justify paying an additional $100 just 3 months later.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Irv00" wrote:
    [quote="NNN636419688699306607" wrote:
    They need to make money so the upgrade pricing doesn't bother me (and isn't bad compared to some other photo editing software annual updates).

    The only thing I'd say is they need a bit more of a "grace period" for new purchasers. What would be really intelligent would be if their website automatically applied a sliding scale. In other words say you bought the previous version a year ago thus you'd be charged full upgrade price, but if you bought it only a month ago then you'd pay 1/12th the price (aka about $10) and for example purchase six months ago would translate to an upgrade costing only half the normal amount).


    I agree 100%.

    Bought in the middle of August - hard to justify paying an additional $100 just 3 months later.


    You don't have to you know. You could wait a while - unless you really really need the new features.

    You can also find discount offers around from certain C1 Ambassador related sources.

    FWIW I skipped V10 for a few reasons - mainly because, in the Windows version, there was nothing especially relevant to my needs at the time. V11 looks like the cost will be justified for my purposes. It's nice to have the opportunity to make such a decision.

    As I recall I upgraded from 7 to 8 late in the upgrade cycle but 8 to 9 was an upgrade undertaken not long after release.

    If I constantly bought new bodies and lenses then I may have a different set of needs ... but in that case a little over $100 to, presumably, overcome the limitations of the camera's own processing 🤬 does not sound like too much.

    That said there are other products out for which I would think such a price to be extortionate for what they offer - not so much as a piece of software but as something of which I am only likely to use a small part and then quite rarely.
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  • Irvin Gomez
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    You don't have to you know. You could wait a while - unless you really really need the new features.


    Absolutely.

    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    You can also find discount offers around from certain C1 Ambassador related sources.

    If I constantly bought new bodies and lenses then I may have a different set of needs ... but in that case a little over $100 to, presumably, overcome the limitations of the camera's own processing 🤬 does not sound like too much.

    That said there are other products out for which I would think such a price to be extortionate for what they offer - not so much as a piece of software but as something of which I am only likely to use a small part and then quite rarely.


    There is no need to justify the price. It is what it is.

    My point is that I agreed with the previous poster that some sort of slide-scale upgrade pricing would be more attractive for recent purchasers of the software. Not a biggie - and I agree with you, too, that ultimately $100 is not the end of the world.
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  • Rob DuMont
    This doesn't really feel like a full version upgrade though - more like a point release. The new features, although useful, are a bit underwhelming... I'm with those of you who aren't sold on the value of this upgrade.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Robby-D" wrote:
    This doesn't really feel like a full version upgrade though - more like a point release. The new features, although useful, are a bit underwhelming... I'm with those of you who aren't sold on the value of this upgrade.


    I would suggest that it is indeed quite a significant under the hood rewrite.

    That it lacks a shiny new front end that would absorb time to familiarise with - and a lot of revision effort to set up for those that heavily modify the UI for their own preferences, is probably a huge benefit to most people.

    Not all may recognise that.


    Grant
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  • John Doe
    [quote="Robby-D" wrote:
    This doesn't really feel like a full version upgrade though - more like a point release. The new features, although useful, are a bit underwhelming... I'm with those of you who aren't sold on the value of this upgrade.

    Then don't upgrade. Problem solved.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Irv00" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    You don't have to you know. You could wait a while - unless you really really need the new features.


    Absolutely.

    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    You can also find discount offers around from certain C1 Ambassador related sources.

    If I constantly bought new bodies and lenses then I may have a different set of needs ... but in that case a little over $100 to, presumably, overcome the limitations of the camera's own processing 🤬 does not sound like too much.

    That said there are other products out for which I would think such a price to be extortionate for what they offer - not so much as a piece of software but as something of which I am only likely to use a small part and then quite rarely.


    There is no need to justify the price. It is what it is.

    My point is that I agreed with the previous poster that some sort of slide-scale upgrade pricing would be more attractive for recent purchasers of the software. Not a biggie - and I agree with you, too, that ultimately $100 is not the end of the world.


    Years ago when I was heavily involved with business software systems costing significant sums we always offered a "trade in" structure based on a 3 year life and 1/3 write off per year against upgrades - unless the client took a premium support deal that included updates and working in any of their special developments.

    Despite the "rules" it was always a good way of keeping quite a number of staff employed and slowing a client's upgrade process no matter how beneficial the upgrade might be to them operationally and to us financially.

    Whether a more effective system could be developed for small one-off purchases based on a sliding scale over 12 months I don't know. I somehow doubt it unless there are several millions of licences. And profit margins (or losses) acceptable to supermarkets become the normal expectation in software development.

    As with most things, for business use this and everything else is just a cost of doing business.

    For personal use it's a discretionary purchase. If you are not spending significant amounts on hardware you probably don't "need" to stay in step with upgrades for quite long periods.

    I write this as someone who previously used totally free software (but after several years of paying for it as a commercial application) that was (and still is) very good at what it sets out to do. I changed because I found that C1 produced slightly nicer results with less effort (at the time) and those benefits increased as the upgrades came through and the years passed. I saved myself a lot of time making edits.

    Had the other software business survived as a commercial operation I suspect its new version, heavily rewritten and a work well in progress when they shut down, would have been truly ahead of its time. Didn't happen for them though.

    Lack of cash flow may have been part of the problem.


    Grant
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  • Denis Mortell
    Given the amount of time I spend in Photoshop addressing the shortcomings of C1 10 colour editor and lens tool, I think I’ll be passing version 11.

    The additions to 11 are of no interest to me. If the above had been sorted (as I’m told they will be), I would have upgraded.

    But, not this time.

    D.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Dinarius" wrote:
    Given the amount of time I spend in Photoshop addressing the shortcomings of C1 10 colour editor and lens tool, I think I’ll be passing version 11.

    The additions to 11 are of no interest to me. If the above had been sorted (as I’m told they will be), I would have upgraded.

    But, not this time.

    D.


    I think some of the problems you have described elsewhere are somewhat specific to certain combinations of your equipment or they not?

    Capture One does not set out to be Photoshop - different types of product. Different objectives. Different solutions using different approaches.

    That said, years ago and using other software I had a need to defeat some occasionally very strong pink/purple fringing that sometime occurred in certain light situation when using an old and well used 600mm fully manual lens on a digital body via an adaptor.

    The solution was to create multiple tools in the tool stack (effectively multiple layers) and fine tune between 3 and 5 of them to eliminate very specific shades of the problem colours. Now it looks like I could do the same thing in C1 V11 but I will rarely have any need to consider it since C1's purple fringe correction works extremely well for me except in the most extreme situations - usually images that are almost unusable for other reasons.

    But of course the chances are that Photoshop would take a totally different approach and simply allow you to paint over the problem. Perfectly valid. Possibly faster.

    Grant
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  • AllMediaLab
    As with most things, for business use this and everything else is just a cost of doing business.


    Hi Grant,

    I agree with your post, but don't forget that the money must be earned first of course!
    We use maybe 35 different applications and with the years the frequency and prices of the upgrades are higher and higher.
    At a certain point it is getting out of hand with a rise of 10% to 15% each year.

    Regards,
    David
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636349561883089586" wrote:
    As with most things, for business use this and everything else is just a cost of doing business.


    Hi Grant,

    I agree with your post, but don't forget that the money must be earned first of course!
    We use maybe 35 different applications and with the years the frequency and prices of the upgrades are higher and higher.
    At a certain point it is getting out of hand with a rise of 10% to 15% each year.

    Regards,
    David


    I'm sure that eventually the behemoth companies will really feel the kickback from their users but so long as the world of Clouds and telecoms (and of course others) can continue to gouge their customer base year after year and convert everyone to renting their lives (cars next on the list it seems) at the personal level the same as is expected at the business level then we cannot blame anyone for deciding that it is the way to go. At some point it may not be.

    I have not looked for a while but unless things have changed dramatically in recent months the market for traditional cameras is significantly depressed compared to where it was 10 years ago yet nearly everyone with a mobile phone now has a camera ... that they mostly rent as part of a telephone service deal. And edit via an app or in the cloud (but only if they are really serious about editing. 😉 )

    Being the time of year it is in some parts of the world it seems ironic to be discussing the excessive cost of a daily used software application at a time when many people will be spending many more times the real cost on gifts that will never mean much or, if practical gifts, will never be used and "entertainment" that lasts no more than hours and, even if remembered in the short term, will often be forgotten before the weather starts to warm (or cool depending in your hemisphere of residence. Some other criterion if yo live on or about the Equator!)

    Just my thoughts. I fully expect to see many different opinions should people choose to respond.

    Grant
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  • Irvin Gomez
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    I write this as someone who previously used totally free software (but after several years of paying for it as a commercial application) that was (and still is) very good at what it sets out to do. I changed because I found that C1 produced slightly nicer results with less effort (at the time) and those benefits increased as the upgrades came through and the years passed. I saved myself a lot of time making edits.


    Funny you'd mention it, because that exactly the reason I switched from Lightroom to Capture One: I get the same results, only much faster with Capture One (combined with Photoshop, of course).
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  • Salih Kilic
    [quote="NNN636419688699306607" wrote:
    In other words say you bought the previous version a year ago thus you'd be charged full upgrade price, but if you bought it only a month ago then you'd pay 1/12th the price (aka about $10) and for example purchase six months ago would translate to an upgrade costing only half the normal amount).


    I bought the full version 12 days ago. I contacted support for this very thing. If i'd known this in advance I would have waited those two weeks.
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  • John Doe
    [quote="NNN636439634357713230" wrote:
    [quote="NNN636419688699306607" wrote:
    In other words say you bought the previous version a year ago thus you'd be charged full upgrade price, but if you bought it only a month ago then you'd pay 1/12th the price (aka about $10) and for example purchase six months ago would translate to an upgrade costing only half the normal amount).


    I bought the full version 12 days ago. I contacted support for this very thing. If i'd known this in advance I would have waited those two weeks.

    Twelve days ago puts you in the grace period, doesn't it?
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  • NB
    I received a high pressure email from PO on 10/12 that indicated my current version would no longer be supported and there was an opportunity to upgrade now that will end before the next release. I got back from vacation on 10/19 and jumped on that as I did not want to loose the ability to upgrade and then have to pay full price so I paid for the upgrade on 10/19 and was invoiced on 10/25. Two weeks ago I finally got around to installing v10 and have only just started to use it as I am finishing jobs on prior version and am also finding it slower to load the catalog. So I have used v10 about 5 times and now learn it is already being replaced by v11.

    I don't mind upgrades and paying for them, but to get a high pressure sales pitch only to find it was to get people to buy before the grace period started is rude. I would have gladly waited 10 more days to buy the upgrade to v10.
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  • Marc Salvatore
    I bought Capture one for Sony on 10/15/17 and missed the upgrade by 15 days. That cost me $45. Now they want $69 for me to upgrade yet if I had waited I could get the program now for $79 (even less if I had bought during the grace period).

    Upgrade cost seems lopsided and high to me.
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  • Tibor
    [quote="Alex1111" wrote:
    I received a high pressure email from PO on 10/12 that indicated my current version would no longer be supported and there was an opportunity to upgrade now that will end before the next release. I got back from vacation on 10/19 and jumped on that as I did not want to loose the ability to upgrade and then have to pay full price so I paid for the upgrade on 10/19 and was invoiced on 10/25. Two weeks ago I finally got around to installing v10 and have only just started to use it as I am finishing jobs on prior version and am also finding it slower to load the catalog. So I have used v10 about 5 times and now learn it is already being replaced by v11.

    I don't mind upgrades and paying for them, but to get a high pressure sales pitch only to find it was to get people to buy before the grace period started is rude. I would have gladly waited 10 more days to buy the upgrade to v10.


    Just to be fair to Phase One. I was in a similar situation, but before upgrading to v10 I downloaded the FREE 30-day trial. See my posts here

    I upgraded to v10 on 11/8 and have already upgraded to v11 for FREE. Yes, I've got 1 free upgrade with the v10 license, so I basically jumped from v8 to v11 😄

    As for the pricing. I received a FREE Capture One LE license with my SandDisk CF Extreme card and upgraded from LE to Pro 8 in September 2014 for 86,25 €. It was a Photokina promotion. The upgrade from Pro 8 to Pro 11 cost me 108,58 € (I used the 10% discount code from the Phase One Ambassador), so a total of less than 200 € and I am good for a two year period if I skip v12 and go from v11 to v13 after that. That totals about 350 € for a 5 year period (September 2014 (v8) - September 2019 (v13)) or less than 6 € a month.

    To summarize, if you upgrade every 2 years the upgrade price of 140 € equals for 5,84 € a month which for me is reasonable. And yes, I think that jump from v8 to v11 is a major jump.
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  • Class A
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    Then don't upgrade. Problem solved.

    That would be a good answer, if it weren't for some bugs that never got fixed in C1 10.

    I don't think it would be appropriate to essentially force users to upgrade to C1 11 by not further maintaining C1 10 anymore.

    I hope Phase One will do the right thing and release at least one more C1 10 update that fixes bugs which significantly affect users.

    FWIW, I find the increase in update pricing a bit unfortunate, given the moderate additions to C11. I believe the addition of the "Proof" feature in C10 was a much bigger step but was made available for a lower upgrade price. I'm planning to skip C1 11 because of the unfortunate combination of increased upgrade price and moderate evolution of functionality. A fix for the "Problematic Preview Quality" issue would made me upgrade in a heartbeat, but sadly (judging from early feedback by others) it seems that C1 11 makes no advances in this regard.
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  • NB
    [quote="Tibor" wrote:
    [quote="Alex1111" wrote:
    I received a high pressure email from PO on 10/12 that indicated my current version would no longer be supported and there was an opportunity to upgrade now that will end before the next release. I got back from vacation on 10/19 and jumped on that as I did not want to loose the ability to upgrade and then have to pay full price so I paid for the upgrade on 10/19 and was invoiced on 10/25. Two weeks ago I finally got around to installing v10 and have only just started to use it as I am finishing jobs on prior version and am also finding it slower to load the catalog. So I have used v10 about 5 times and now learn it is already being replaced by v11.

    I don't mind upgrades and paying for them, but to get a high pressure sales pitch only to find it was to get people to buy before the grace period started is rude. I would have gladly waited 10 more days to buy the upgrade to v10.


    Just to be fair to Phase One. I was in a similar situation, but before upgrading to v10 I downloaded the FREE 30-day trial. See my posts here

    I upgraded to v10 on 11/8 and have already upgraded to v11 for FREE. Yes, I've got 1 free upgrade with the v10 license, so I basically jumped from v8 to v11 😄
    .

    Exactly, You gambled the other way and won. I was aware of the 30day free trial, but I knew I had to move to v10 as v8 stopped working on my system after a Windows update (that affected .net). I did roll back .net upgrades, but then I had to stop any windows updates so v8 kept working. But the main reason I paid right away instead of using the 30day trial was because Phase One message said that after next release I would not be able to upgrade. That could be the next day!

    This is the pressured sales message I got which is why I did not wait for 30days. Phase one should have been up front and told me I could upgrade to v10 for $X before x/y/z date or upgrade to v11 for $Y after that date.

    "Older versions of Capture One are not being updated with additional support and features.
    If you are currently using Capture One 8, upgrading your license is only possible before the next version of Capture One is released."
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  • NB
    [quote="Tibor" wrote:

    I upgraded to v10 on 11/8 and have already upgraded to v11 for FREE. Yes, I've got 1 free upgrade with the v10 license, so I basically jumped from v8 to v11 😄

    To put this in perspective if PO had released v11 on 11/7 you would have had to pay full (not upgrade) price to get v10 or v11. I can't imagine you would have been happy then.
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  • Wesley
    [quote="Class A" wrote:
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    Then don't upgrade. Problem solved.

    That would be a good answer, if it weren't for some bugs that never got fixed in C1 10.

    I don't think it would be appropriate to essentially force users to upgrade to C1 11 by not further maintaining C1 10 anymore.

    I hope Phase One will do the right thing and release at least one more C1 10 update that fixes bugs which significantly affect users.

    FWIW, I find the increase in update pricing a bit unfortunate, given the moderate additions to C11. I believe the addition of the "Proof" feature in C10 was a much bigger step but was made available for a lower upgrade price. I'm planning to skip C1 11 because of the unfortunate combination of increased upgrade price and moderate evolution of functionality. A fix for the "Problematic Preview Quality" issue would made me upgrade in a heartbeat, but sadly (judging from early feedback by others) it seems that C1 11 makes no advances in this regard.

    They stop updates on the previous version. I'm on version 9 so I should know.
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  • Tomasz Bator
    Does anyone know what is PhaseOne's excuse for charging Europeans 20$ more than the rest of the world? (~140$ for the upgrade, +tax)
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  • SFA
    [quote="tomba4" wrote:
    Does anyone know what is PhaseOne's excuse for charging Europeans 20$ more than the rest of the world? (~140$ for the upgrade, +tax)


    What do you want?

    Price everything in USD and follow the exchange rate every day?
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  • Tomasz Bator
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="tomba4" wrote:
    Does anyone know what is PhaseOne's excuse for charging Europeans 20$ more than the rest of the world? (~140$ for the upgrade, +tax)


    What do you want?

    Price everything in USD and follow the exchange rate every day?


    No, just price everything in USD instead of adding a +15% premium for no good reason. Somehow, magically, USD price is OK for the rest of the world...
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  • SFA
    [quote="tomba4" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="tomba4" wrote:
    Does anyone know what is PhaseOne's excuse for charging Europeans 20$ more than the rest of the world? (~140$ for the upgrade, +tax)


    What do you want?

    Price everything in USD and follow the exchange rate every day?


    No, just price everything in USD instead of adding a +15% premium for no good reason. Somehow, magically, USD price is OK for the rest of the world...


    Then your transaction on your card/bank account would follow the USD exchange rate every day. Plus the bank/card charges for the conversion.

    I suspect a lot of €eurozone customers would not be too happy with that.


    Grant
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