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The UI fixes I'm waiting for since years (2018 ?)

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32 commentaires

  • Peter Jones
    Hi Samoreen

    I am not optimistic that P1 will budge on any of these issues. Over the years I have learned that in C1 you either do it the P1 way or not at all.

    The UI is simply archaic compared with other software.

    I keep a reliable copy of v9 "in case" but I have moved on.

    Good luck, and a Happy New Year to you.

    Peter.
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  • Dave R
    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:
    [Long post]

    Hi,

    Here is my list of UI problems reported (case created) since 2015 and still waiting to be fixed :


    =====================================================================
    Better dual monitor support (Windows)
    Still impossible to have the main window on the main monitor (the one that usually has the best quality) and the tools + the browser on the secondary monitor.

    Thanks in advance to the UI development team for making the coming year better when using the C1 UI.

    It is - that is exactly how I have got my dual monitors set up. The viewer on my NEC PA241W in front of me and the tools and browser on my NEC P242W to my right. Easy to switch them as well just drag onto the other window. If you let me know your e-mail I will send you my twin screen workspace xml file. I'll go one better, here is a link to it
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="David532" wrote:
    It is - that is exactly how I have got my dual monitors set up. The viewer on my NEC PA241W in front of me and the tools and browser on my NEC P242W to my right. Easy to switch them as well just drag onto the other window. If you let me know your e-mail I will send you my twin screen workspace xml file. I'll go one better, here is a link to it


    David,

    I guess that you obtained this result like I did : by moving the C1 main window to the secondary display. This is a workaround but it has some drawbacks that are annoying me. I will list them when I’m back to my main system. My email is available on my web site.
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="David532" wrote:
    I'll go one better, here is a link to it


    David,

    I have loaded your workspace and it's exactly the same as mine. As previously said, it's only a workaround :

    1. Having the main window on the secondary display implies closing the main window on that display in order to exit the program. Closing the Large Viewer window doesn't terminate the program and it will not be there when relaunching C1 if you don't reload your workspace before exiting.

    2. The Large Viewer window has a problem : it is missing icons that are present on the main window only. This makes some actions more difficult to trigger. I have already reported this long ago, they promised to fix but the problem is still there.

    3. Some menu items are disabled in the Large Viewer window while they are enabled in the main window. Not very practical and a bug anyway.

    4. Some commands related to the viewed image are duplicated in both windows.

    ...etc.

    So, it's a workaround but I don't think that we should live with it forever. The developer of the UI has never tried to really use C1 on a dual display under Windows (I know that there are less problems with the Mac). Period. This is questioning for a professional software.
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="Peter" wrote:
    Good luck, and a Happy New Year to you.Peter.


    Thanks, Peter. I wish you the same.

    Greetings from Fontainebleau, France.
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  • Dave R
    I must admit having to pick tools like the pointer, hand etc. off the right-hand screen is less than optimum but as I am right handed and very much a mouse user I can live with it unlike Lightroom for which I have never found a really usable 2 screen layout.
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  • William Middleton
    ...you must select pointer and hand from right hand screen ? I figure you mean you have no little icons for hand or pointer or etc at the top of your primary monitor...

    I presume I have my system set up like the two of you have discussed.
    I also wish a few things could be different.

    However, I am able to pick hand or color readout or select crop tool on my primary monitor that has the preview full screen. Tools and browser on second screen to right.
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="Tan68" wrote:
    However, I am able to pick hand or color readout or select crop tool on my primary monitor that has the preview full screen. Tools and browser on second screen to right.


    Yes, provided the Large Viewer toolbar is not hidden. But you still need to also show the toolbar on the secondary display anyway. Otherwise, some icons are missing in the Large Viewer, as explained above. So you have to show the toolbar on both displays, which is a little bit strange, to say the least. As I said, just a workaround, not something very professional.



    That's why I said that the developer of the UI never really used/tested a dual display configuration under Windows.
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  • SFA
    [quote="David532" wrote:
    I must admit having to pick tools like the pointer, hand etc. off the right-hand screen is less than optimum but as I am right handed and very much a mouse user I can live with it unlike Lightroom for which I have never found a really usable 2 screen layout.


    Tool like the Hand, etc., that central menu above the viewer, are about the only ones for which I regularly use the keyboard shortcuts in preference to the cursor selection. What is your experience with that approach across two screens?


    Grant
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  • Dave R
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="David532" wrote:
    I must admit having to pick tools like the pointer, hand etc. off the right-hand screen is less than optimum but as I am right handed and very much a mouse user I can live with it unlike Lightroom for which I have never found a really usable 2 screen layout.


    Tool like the Hand, etc., that central menu above the viewer, are about the only ones for which I regularly use the keyboard shortcuts in preference to the cursor selection. What is your experience with that approach across two screens?


    Grant

    I have the viewer toolbar hiden to minimise clutter. The 24" screen with the viewer is straight in front of me at correct viewing distance for my varifocal reading specs (about 22"). The second 24" screen abuts the first to my right and is angled towards me. I almost exclusively use the mouse which is in my right hand which falls naturaly between the two screens abutment. The keyboard is in front of me but I hardly ever use keyboard short cuts. I find it reasonanly comfortable to select tools from the second screen to work on the primary screen. I have tried a Wacom tablet but just could not get on with it. I suppose my mousing habit is a result of my using one since they were invented 🤭
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  • SFA
    [quote="David532" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="David532" wrote:
    I must admit having to pick tools like the pointer, hand etc. off the right-hand screen is less than optimum but as I am right handed and very much a mouse user I can live with it unlike Lightroom for which I have never found a really usable 2 screen layout.


    Tool like the Hand, etc., that central menu above the viewer, are about the only ones for which I regularly use the keyboard shortcuts in preference to the cursor selection. What is your experience with that approach across two screens?


    Grant

    I have the viewer toolbar hiden to minimise clutter. The 24" screen with the viewer is straight in front of me at correct viewing distance for my varifocal reading specs (about 22"). The second 24" screen abuts the first to my right and is angled towards me. I almost exclusively use the mouse which is in my right hand which falls naturaly between the two screens abutment. The keyboard is in front of me but I hardly ever use keyboard short cuts. I find it reasonanly comfortable to select tools from the second screen to work on the primary screen. I have tried a Wacom tablet but just could not get on with it. I suppose my mousing habit is a result of my using one since they were invented 🤭


    Ok, I understand that, especially the last sentence.

    I have used a small Wacom like tablet in past with another application and thought it was great but now I am using a notebook rather than a desk top I tend to use the touchpad.

    I tried the tablet recently and did not get on with it but then realised that the main challenge was the the stylus tip in the pen was beyond help. A spare tablet was deployed but I am now so attuned to the touchpad I need time to adjust once more.

    Effectively the touchpad is the mouse, of course. But I did discover the convenience of selective short cut keys - especially for selecting commonly used tools. It's worth a try. In my case the notebook layout makes everything very compact. If you set the keyboard off to the left your left hand would have something to do! 😄


    Grant
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  • phu
    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:

    01-08-2016 - Print settings not sticky
    The print settings for a given image are not sticky. Assuming you open the Print dialog, modify the default settings (including the printer) and you suddenly realize that you have to modify something in the image before printing. You hit Cancel, make the desired modifications and then open the Print dialog again : no luck, all your settings are lost and you have to start again from scratch. Even the target printer is not remembered. Extremely irritating.

    Could not agree more with this request ....
    My biggest gripe with capture One
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  • Michael Heller
    [quote="David532" wrote:
    I must admit having to pick tools like the pointer, hand etc. off the right-hand screen is less than optimum but as I am right handed and very much a mouse user I can live with it unlike Lightroom for which I have never found a really usable 2 screen layout.


    Really? I find the layout of Lightroom perfect for my work. I have a 27" AdobeRGB screen where I edit a full size image. I like controls to be on the same screen. On the second screen (24" sRGB) I have my grid view with the images I'll be processing. Easy to see everything, but apparently impossible to replicate in Capture One.

    https://i.imgur.com/V65wbJk.jpg
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  • NN635387830551012856UL
    Support most of these - especially the non-sticky print settings. Very irritating.
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  • Dave R
    [quote="KazInVan" wrote:
    [quote="David532" wrote:
    I must admit having to pick tools like the pointer, hand etc. off the right-hand screen is less than optimum but as I am right handed and very much a mouse user I can live with it unlike Lightroom for which I have never found a really usable 2 screen layout.


    Really? I find the layout of Lightroom perfect for my work. I have a 27" AdobeRGB screen where I edit a full size image. I like controls to be on the same screen. On the second screen (24" sRGB) I have my grid view with the images I'll be processing. Easy to see everything, but apparently impossible to replicate in Capture One.

    https://i.imgur.com/V65wbJk.jpg


    Thats how I have Lightroom laid out but I would prefer Loup view in front of me and tools on right screen with the grid but and a big but Lightroom only accelerates the primary screen which is the one with the tools on so update of loup view if it is on a second screen is glacial.

    However enough of Lightroom's shortcomings this is a Capture One forum and at least I can work on a full screen image that updates rapidly.

    Dave
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  • Robert Whetton
    [quote="David532" wrote:
    I must admit having to pick tools like the pointer, hand etc. off the right-hand screen is less than optimum but as I am right handed and very much a mouse user I can live with it unlike Lightroom for which I have never found a really usable 2 screen layout.

    You can have the toolbar on the viewer screen as well..
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    You can have the toolbar on the viewer screen as well..


    As I already mentioned multiple times, the toolbar displayed by the (large) viewer is missing many items in comparison with the "standard" toolbar (at least under Windows). I have already reported this long ago to the support, got a promise to fix it, still waiting...
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  • Gustavo Ferlizi
    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    You can have the toolbar on the viewer screen as well..


    As I already mentioned multiple times, the toolbar displayed by the (large) viewer is missing many items in comparison with the "standard" toolbar (at least under Windows). I have already reported this long ago to the support, got a promise to fix it, still waiting...

    !!!!!!
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  • Robert Whetton
    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    You can have the toolbar on the viewer screen as well..


    As I already mentioned multiple times, the toolbar displayed by the (large) viewer is missing many items in comparison with the "standard" toolbar (at least under Windows). I have already reported this long ago to the support, got a promise to fix it, still waiting...

    Tools or Toolbar?
    http://www.photographs.rjwhetton.co.uk/forums/Toolbar.jpg
    ^this is the toolbar^
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    You can have the toolbar on the viewer screen as well..
    Tools or Toolbar?


    The first bar from the bottom of your screen capture is the Viewer Toolbar. The second one is the Toolbar. There's a separate hide/show command for each of them. You can see that the Toolbar in the (large) Viewer has less icons than the (application) Toolbar.
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  • HansB
    Isn't that something you can fix by 'Customize Toolbar' and 'Save Workspace'?


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • SFA
    [quote="HansB" wrote:
    Isn't that something you can fix by 'Customize Toolbar' and 'Save Workspace'?


    Regards,
    Hans



    Not entirely and that has always been the way as far as I recall.

    I concluded it was by design in that the Standalone viewer appears to be intended for single image use with options to set it up just short of full screen image mode if required.

    As such it seems to offer tools that are useful for single image activity but skips those that are related to multiple image activity. At least as far as the toolbars are concerned.

    If working with shortcut keys it's a different matter and in any case I have always had the strong impression that the stand alone viewer likely works most effectively in a dual screen set up with the other screen using the "normal" tools/ browser/small multi-image viewer set up or some personal version of that.

    In effect the stand alone Viewer is a "repeater" for the regular viewer that simply runs at a different (most usefully larger?) screen real estate size.

    There may be some standard tool omissions from that concept but as it stands I don't think it has ever shown a tendency to be a 100% replica Viewer as a stand alone option. If it was then the system would be running with 2 identical viewers. An interesting option but would it be beneficial and if so what would it be best used for?


    Grant
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    There may be some standard tool omissions from that concept but as it stands I don't think it has ever shown a tendency to be a 100% replica Viewer as a stand alone option. If it was then the system would be running with 2 identical viewers. An interesting option but would it be beneficial and if so what would it be best used for?


    Agreed. This toolbar "issue" is actually only a side effect of not being able (at least in Windows) to entirely dedicate the main display (which is oft the display with the highest quality) to the image and move all the rest to the secondary display, as we can do in Photoshop, DxO Photolab, Affinity Photo and other similar applications.

    To achieve this, we have to move the C1 main windows to the secondary display, close the viewer and open the Large Viewer on the primary display (as shown in multiple posts). This is workable but has many drawbacks as I already explained. This is why I insist on saying that the C1 UI is from far not as flexible as advertised when using a dual monitor configuration. Actually, I'm sure that it was not really tested and used by the developers on such a configuration. Otherwise they would have immediately noticed this design flaw.
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  • Robert Whetton
    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:

    The first bar from the bottom of your screen capture is the Viewer Toolbar. The second one is the Toolbar. There's a separate hide/show command for each of them. You can see that the Toolbar in the (large) Viewer has less icons than the (application) Toolbar.

    Well yes, they look to be redundant on the viewer. Which one of the main window toolbar tools do you miss on the viewer toolbar?
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    Well yes, they look to be redundant on the viewer. Which one of the main window toolbar tools do you miss on the viewer toolbar?


    This is not exactly the right question 😊 . Actually, I'd like to have, like in any similar software, all commands and menus available on the main display. With the workspace setup that we are forced to use to circumvent the shortcomings of the UI, many commands that everyone would look for on the main display are available only on the secondary display. This is not very "natural" and often misleading.

    For example, when I want to quit the program, I have to go to the secondary display : the File menu in the Large Viewer is grayed on the main display, as well as the Camera, Window and Help menus - odd, don't ask me why - and if I inadvertently use the X in the Large Viewer in order to exit C1 (which I do very often), this closes only the Large Viewer, not C1 (and I have to restore my workspace settings because when I re-launch C1, the Large Viewer will be missing in that case).

    I insist : the UI design didn't take the dual display configuration into account seriously (I have been told that this is different on the Mac). I have reported this many times since version 8 (and I'm not the only one) but the development team apparently don't want to hear this.
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  • Paul Gardner
    Lots of luck! While C1 undoubtably has the best image handling available they need to fire the UI programmers and hire some that really understand structures. The basic file handling and import setup in C1 is something that was resolved 20 years ago and really needs to be looked at by a professional with experience in file handling and UI. C1 has the capability of being the very top of the line editor, BUT, their file handling and UI SUCK. None the less those of us whom need the image capability continue to support C1 in spite of the defects which they seem to resisist fixing.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Samoreen" wrote:


    For example, when I want to quit the program, I have to go to the secondary display : the File menu in the Large Viewer is grayed on the main display, as well as the Camera, Window and Help menus - odd, don't ask me why - and if I inadvertently use the X in the Large Viewer in order to exit C1 (which I do very often), this closes only the Large Viewer, not C1 (and I have to restore my workspace settings because when I re-launch C1, the Large Viewer will be missing in that case).



    Sorry I really don't understand this criticism.

    The Large Viewer, as it is, is an additional pop up screen that has its own short cut key to open it and so it is entirely logical that when you close it it closes alone.

    If it was closed when you close C1 then it is consistent that it is still closed when open C1 next time, based on its intended purpose. It takes but a few seconds at worst to re-establish the layourt that you want.

    What you seem to be asking for is a different approach - something of a new concept dedicated to the needs of those who regularly use dual screens.

    It's not unreasonable to have that desire and it may be that there are a number of regular dual screen users out there who might wish for something similar. Personally speaking I don't find a problem with working with a dual screen set up as it is "natural" to do. Or moving it the other way around and having the "work screen" across both screens although that does have a few odd situations to deal with.

    But the point is that what you are asking for should be considered as new functionality that might be added to the software rather than poor design of a pre-existing feature that has been around for quite some time and perhaps had and has a rather different purpose to that which you seek. On that basis the request becomes a matter of feasibility and if feasible needs a decision about its importance to the wider target client base and costing based on the effort required for design and development compared to other developments that are claimed to be popular by users and might be seen as even more attractive to undertake.

    I'm sure you already know and understand that. Others reading this thread might not.

    I am cautious about proposed major changes that eventually lead to re-writes because companies that dive into them often fail to emerge successfully from the other end of the process.

    If they survive the development because of their scale the products can still be hugely compromised, accused of never being more than beta releases when "agile" methods are adopted to try to gain a responsive edge or end up languishing as products that may be all powerful in a market place but look horrible to use and are complex to understand and run. Some of those seem to be very profitable - but of course in the corporate business marketplace where the decision makers are far removed from the opinions of the users and make buying decisions based on the vendors apparent reputation in their market rather than what they really deliver.

    So, in summary, why not make a proposal that suits your needs as something that is NEW functionality rather than a criticism of a long established feature that has its own established purpose. That would give everyone a blank page to start with and go some way to avoiding conflicting requirements and opinions.


    Grant
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  • SFA
    [quote="SJPRG" wrote:
    Lots of luck! While C1 undoubtably has the best image handling available they need to fire the UI programmers and hire some that really understand structures. The basic file handling and import setup in C1 is something that was resolved 20 years ago and really needs to be looked at by a professional with experience in file handling and UI. C1 has the capability of being the very top of the line editor, BUT, their file handling and UI SUCK. None the less those of us whom need the image capability continue to support C1 in spite of the defects which they seem to resisist fixing.


    I suspect that "fixing" is probably not the term to use if you expect a full scale interface re-write across 2 operating systems with different coding "rules".

    However, do you have a suggestion for an example of a product that displays all the favourable attributes that you seek so that people who are interested in advancing UI and performance can take a look and offer a considered reply?


    Grant
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  • Samoreen
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    So, in summary, why not make a proposal that suits your needs as something that is NEW functionality rather than a criticism of a long established feature that has its own established purpose. That would give everyone a blank page to start with and go some way to avoiding conflicting requirements and opinions.


    Grant,

    Did you ever have a look at Photoshop, Silkypix Developer Studio, Affinity Photo, DxO Optics Pro or DxO Photolab ? These applications have a decent support for dual monitor configurations since an eternity. This capability was there from the beginning. This was not a feature added after the fact. This is just the standard way of designing an UI for applications that are manipulating images with numerous tools. One screen for the image, one screen for the tools. The designers of the C1 UI just forgot this. The Large Viewer is merely a plaster on a wooden leg.

    I agree with SJPRG. C1 would be a top notch application if the UI had been better designed. I'm very surprised by the number of people singing songs of praise about the C1 UI. The design is just plain wrong (talking here as a former developer and software development consultant).
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  • WPNL
    I see more people switching from two 'small' displays to on big 4k(+) screen than the other way around.

    I agree, multi-monitor support could be better. But I like the customizing options as they at the moment quite enough.
    And since I switched to one large display I stopped caring.
    With Adobe apps I thought it would be a step back with the loss of the panels on the second screen, but it's no problem at all.
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