Aller au contenu principal

Why Bother?

Commentaires

24 commentaires

  • NN109703UL2
    I could not have said it better. I can't begin to express how disapointing v4 is. We waited for years for this upgrade only to receive software that for me is totally useless. If there are not a lot of fixes in the pro version I will never be upgrading to v4 but will start to look at other options that will allow me to work the way I want.

    Horrific upgrade, if you can even call it an upgrade.
    0
  • swampy101
    [quote="dmendlik" wrote:
    If there are not a lot of fixes in the pro version I will never be upgrading to v4 but will start to look at other options that will allow me to work the way I want.

    Horrific upgrade, if you can even call it an upgrade.


    You mean, you'd buy Pro if it had the features we ALL asked for added to it? I wouldn't.

    I'm glad I didn't do what I normally do when a new anticipated version of a piece of software comes out - go straight out and get it without looking.. I'm glad I came to the forums first and read a bit.

    They didn't listen, they didn't do anything, they're not getting my money. I almost purchased a few more 3.7 licenses the other day for a few new computers, but decided to wait just because V4 was so poor.

    I guess I'll spend my holiday's at the mother in laws this weekend researching a new raw converter. Thanks PO for giving me something to do!!!!
    0
  • Lensman
    I think V4 represents a change in marketing strategy for Phase One. They want to blow off the professional photographers in the hope of attracting all those amateurs who will find a D40 under their Christmas tree. In case you haven't realized it already, version 4 was not written with the professional in mind.

    So, you alienate 100 professional photographers and sell this software to 125 snapshooters. That, my friends, is a net gain.

    Of course, the professionals will have to look elsewhere, but, so what!

    It's too bad that Phase One is leaving the professional market, but they can make more money writing software for amateurs. And that's what they have done with version 4..

    If you earn your living with photography, Version 4 is not where you want to be.

    Lensman
    0
  • dave211
    I like this version of C1. But never having used C1 v3LE i dont know how it compares.
    But we have to remember this is a LE version, not the pro that so many of us are used to.
    I will use V4 over C1 v3.7.7 pro for now as i find certain things are better, like the highlight/shadows adjustment and much, much better folder management. At last we can drag RAW files around the PC from within C1.

    I cant see why so many pro's are moaning about a LE version of a program. V4 is progress and a good update of C1 v3 LE IMO but i am holding my breath for the pro version.

    Lensman said he thought it was aimed at new D40 users, well maybe, again, its not a pro version so why not. I think if i was just getting in to RAW v4 would be a fantastic way to do it.

    I totally agree that PO sucks now but after waiting a year for this and going to ACR and DPP because i got a 40D i can see that ill now go back to PO. After all, its a free upgrade anyway.

    All IMHO

    Dave.
    0
  • kai2
    Lensman said, I think V4 represents a change in marketing strategy for Phase One. They want to blow off the professional photographers in the hope of attracting all those amateurs who will find a D40 under their Christmas tree. In case you haven't realized it already, version 4 was not written with the professional in mind.

    Just what i have been afraid of after seeing the 4.

    And they don't listen to us either, so this is frustrating when you work as a professional.

    I want to spend time working on my photos, not trying to find a new RAW file program. But i am afraid that we all professionals photographers have to go down that road. Maybe there are some better, maybe not.

    Kai Jensen
    0
  • dave211
    [quote="fotojensen" wrote:

    I want to spend time working on my photos, not trying to find a new RAW file program. But i am afraid that we all professionals photographers have to go down that road. Maybe there are some better, maybe not.

    Kai Jensen


    If you dont want to use a new RAW program, why not stick to the old version.
    No one is forcing you to use it are they. This is v4 after all, things change. If it aint broken dont try and fix it is the old moto. V3 wont stop working just because v4 is out.
    And i doubt many pros will buy a LE version of anything. Im sure thats not what happened with v3 pro and v3 LE so i dont undersatnd all the fuss about v4/
    Why not just wait untill v4 pro comes out?

    Dave.
    0
  • kai2
    The problem is that 3.7 do not support Canon 1 DS MKIII, if it did i would not have to change program.

    Kai Jensen
    0
  • shewhorn
    [quote="dave_bass5" wrote:
    ...so i dont undersatnd all the fuss about v4/
    Why not just wait untill v4 pro comes out?


    Dave,

    LE and Pro in version 3 were not all that different. If this version is a glimpse of what is to come with the Pro version then the Pro version will NOT have the features or the interface we want. That's a guaranteed because they're not going to completely change the Pro version which means Pro inherits the base of LE's crappy interface. No keyboard command equivalents (seems to me like they had no intention of including that as ctrl +/- no longer adjusts exposure, it changes the preview size).

    There have been improvements no doubt, but I prefer version 3 simply for the fact that it has keyboard controls for exposure, contrast, white balance, and tone. Your argument that 3 will continue to work doesn't matter because I have two bodies that need to be replaced in FY2008 and 3.7.* is not going to support whatever bodies I replace them with. That FORCES a move to 4 if you bought into the system.

    Add to the fact that Phase One ASKED their user base for help and thousands of people stepped up to the plate and alpha tested (yes, alpha... because no software quality assurance department in the world that adheres to any industry standards would have approved that release for an open public beta) the software. They donated their time to P1 for free in hopes that the company would listen to them. The thought that by donating their time, they would get something back from it. As it turns out that's not the case, P1 completely ignored them and released a piece of software that wasn't thoroughly tested in house. That is what all the fuss is about, wasting everyone's time.

    Cheers, Joe
    0
  • dave211
    [quote="fotojensen" wrote:
    The problem is that 3.7 do not support Canon 1 DS MKIII, if it did i would not have to change program.

    Kai Jensen


    I can understand that. I had the same when i got my 40D. But lets not just blame PO here. canon keep changing the RAW format and everyone has to keep up.
    Not being able to use V3 with my 40D i was forced to go to ACR or DPP for a few months and to be honest i never thought i would go back to PO but after having v4 since b2 i found it easier and quicker to use than acr and more advanced than DPP. One way or another i had to learn a new program but IMO PO still has the best output.
    Im not a pro though and dont depend on speed etc everyday. But, i have seen v3.7LE in action and i doubt i could work with it as im so used to v3 pro. Now we have v4 (LE?) i would still wait for the pro version to come out but use the LE version to get used to the new features that we have so far.
    All IMHO fo course.

    Dave.
    0
  • shewhorn
    Just to add.... furthermore Professionals depend upon this software as part of their daily workflow. Changing a tool in the studio can be a MAJOR upset because while you might only need to work on a few images a week, we need to work on thousands of images a week. The new version has changed enough that there will be an adjustment period getting used to the new way of doing things. They could have made HUGE improvements to the interface without making radical changes to it that would have had little to no impact on anyone but that's not the case here.

    When I bought the software I paid for 5 updates with the expectation that the interface or work paradigm would remain consistent. Again, that is no longer the case and I'm not happy about it. I hope I'm proven wrong when v4 Pro comes out but I've learned not to hold my breath with this company. Since I initially started using C1 in 2003 or so, each subsequent release has become progressively more annoying.

    Cheers, Joe
    0
  • dave211
    [quote="shewhorn" wrote:
    [quote="dave_bass5" wrote:
    ...so i dont undersatnd all the fuss about v4/
    Why not just wait untill v4 pro comes out?


    Dave,

    LE and Pro in version 3 were not all that different. If this version is a glimpse of what is to come with the Pro version then the Pro version will NOT have the features or the interface we want. That's a guaranteed because they're not going to completely change the Pro version which means Pro inherits the base of LE's crappy interface. No keyboard command equivalents (seems to me like they had no intention of including that as ctrl +/- no longer adjusts exposure, it changes the preview size).

    There have been improvements no doubt, but I prefer version 3 simply for the fact that it has keyboard controls for exposure, contrast, white balance, and tone. Your argument that 3 will continue to work doesn't matter because I have two bodies that need to be replaced in FY2008 and 3.7.* is not going to support whatever bodies I replace them with. That FORCES a move to 4 if you bought into the system.

    Add to the fact that Phase One ASKED their user base for help and thousands of people stepped up to the plate and alpha tested (yes, alpha... because no software quality assurance department in the world that adheres to any industry standards would have approved that release for an open public beta) the software. They donated their time to P1 for free in hopes that the company would listen to them. The thought that by donating their time, they would get something back from it. As it turns out that's not the case, P1 completely ignored them and released a piece of software that wasn't thoroughly tested in house. That is what all the fuss is about, wasting everyone's time.

    Cheers, Joe


    I take your points and cant really argue with them as they are your points.
    I do dissagre with some of the thinking behind some people complaining but we are all after different things i guess.
    personaly i think v4 is better than v3 pro so far. Ive not asked for anything but i love some of the new features like drag and drop, better sharpening etc, things v3 pro didnt have. Im quite prepared to learn a new program because i have ot anyway as v3 doesnt support my 40D either (although it soon will).
    As for 1000's of people being asked what it is they would like. Well, how do we know that the majority didnt ask fo rtwhat we have now? Imagine if all 1000 people asked for a different feature, thats just not practical. looking around the v4 forum i dont see anywhere near 1000 people complaining, only a hand full. of course, thats your choice but maybe you arent spekaing for the majority.

    Dave.
    0
  • NN109703UL2
    By them removing the CTRL +/- and Shift +/- I would increase my DAILY work flow from about 2 hours to 3 or 4 easily. During the baseball season I shoot 4-600 images a night and need to have them into our DAM software within a few days at the latest. With 3.x this was doable, now I need to find other software to hopefully cut some time out of the work flow v 4 has. Really sucks since I was told they were adding the keystrokes back. They could have at least make the keystrokes customizable like Photoshop but apparently their programmer could not figure out how to do that.
    0
  • dave211
    [quote="dmendlik" wrote:
    By them removing the CTRL +/- and Shift +/- I would increase my DAILY work flow from about 2 hours to 3 or 4 easily. During the baseball season I shoot 4-600 images a night and need to have them into our DAM software within a few days at the latest. With 3.x this was doable, now I need to find other software to hopefully cut some time out of the work flow v 4 has. Really sucks since I was told they were adding the keystrokes back. They could have at least make the keystrokes customizable like Photoshop but apparently their programmer could not figure out how to do that.


    Sorry, not really use the shrtcuts much. what does CTRL +/- and Shift +/-?
    This was in the LE version right?

    Dave.
    0
  • shewhorn
    [quote="dave_bass5" wrote:

    Sorry, not really use the shrtcuts much. what does CTRL +/- and Shift +/-?
    This was in the LE version right?

    Dave.


    In V3 ctrl +/- adjusted exposure compensation. By using different modifiers with the +/- keys you could also control white balance (another biggy for me), contrast, and tone. HUGE time savers when you're looking at hundreds to thousands of images that need to be editing RIGHT NOW!!!

    Cheers, Joe
    0
  • NN1211111
    In V3 ctrl +/- adjusted exposure compensation.


    I cannot even begin to express how SHOCKED I am that this was removed. I am a wedding photographer and I can tell you this un-feature alone makes Capture One completely useless to me.

    Phase One... before I jump off a bridge please tell me... IS THIS A JOKE?



    I guess this is what divorce feels like.
    0
  • Len2
    If you earn your living with photography, Version 4 is not where you want to be.


    Well, I don't earn my living with photography, but v4 isn't where I want to be, either. 😎
    0
  • Matt Fahrner
    I liked 3.x, but I also like 4.x. I have to agree that if you were used to shortcuts to adjust exposure etc. it could be a major pain (deal breaker really). I'm not sure why they didn't do more to preserve those, or at least give replacement options to do the same thing.

    Having not used those shortcuts I wouldn't notice, but if I had I can understand being upset.
    0
  • sperho
    I am dumbfounded about the keyboard shortcut issue. There are 4 reasons I use Capture One.

    1. Fast response on image adjustments.
    2. Workflow is fast.
    3. EXTREMELY fast basic image adjustments with keyboard shortcuts.
    4. Quality of the image.

    Notice the first 3 reasons have to do with the software allowing fast workflow. The lack of keyboard shortcuts is a big impediment to this version and while I may give it a chance before I stop using 4 altogether, I'm terribly disapointed about the shortcut removal. What gives, Phase One?
    0
  • dave211
    Thanks for clearing up the short cut issue.
    I agree it is a pain.
    Anyone know how you can adjust the tool bar like it shows in the manual?
    Im guessing its only on MAC

    Dave.
    0
  • Keith6
    [quote="dave_bass5" wrote:
    I cant see why so many pro's are moaning about a LE version of a program. V4 is progress and a good update of C1 v3 LE IMO but i am holding my breath for the pro version.

    Lensman said he thought it was aimed at new D40 users, well maybe, again, its not a pro version so why not. I think if i was just getting in to RAW v4 would be a fantastic way to do it.


    It's actually not a good update of C1 v3 LE. That's the gripe. LE obviously wasn't the "Pro" version but it had many many features that made it perfectly suitable for pro photogs who don't need tethered shooting support.

    For example:

    - An icon to show which images have been rendered. That's gone in v4. Why is it a "pro"-only feature to know which images you've rendered?! That's silly!

    - A flag feature to use as you please. I used it to indicate "finished" images in my workflow. How can I tell which images are "finished" in v4? Again, is that a "pro"-only feature? There's a new five-star rating system that I could kind of co-opt into being like the old flag system (e.g. only rate "finished" images). The five-star system could be called an "upgrade" but it comes at the cost of a feature that was central to my style of workflow. The ideal "upgrade" would have been to keep the flag system while also adding the rating system.

    - Per-Project output folders vs v4's global output folder. v3 LE gave the option to use a global output folder or keep a separate one under each project folder. v4 takes the per-project option away. How is that an "upgrade"? Global output makes it much more difficult to work across multiple projects in one sitting.

    These are simple, simple, trivial UI elements that make a big difference in actual usability.

    If v4 (non-Pro) is a new marketing strategy aimed at newbies, then it most certainly is NOT an "upgrade" from v3 LE - it would be a divergence in a downward direction in terms of usability.

    v3 LE was usable by, I would argue, all but the most demanding professional photogs.

    v4 (non-Pro) in its current form is NOT usable for the vast majority of pros.

    It's up to PhaseOne if they've decided to cripple v4 non-Pro to funnel the more advanced users to the Pro version.

    But there's no way this is an "upgrade" from v3 LE in terms of usability/workflow. v3 LE was much more than some barely usable brain-dead version of v3 Pro.
    0
  • gmayn
    [quote="dmendlik" wrote:
    By them removing the CTRL +/- and Shift +/- I would increase my DAILY work flow from about 2 hours to 3 or 4 easily.


    it´s the same to me... I work quite often on weddings and events. So it´s usual for me to return in the studio with a few hundrets of pictures. In 3.x i used to run very fast through them.. just with the keyboard and without leaving my eyes from the picture area. This made the workflow so unique fast.

    I coudn´t believe that PO didn´t implement this essential feature ☹️

    So please PO, return those esential shortcuts. :!:
    Otherwise, i have to change to Lightroom in the future - even so i like the CO-image quality much more than Lightroom!

    I hope your PO guys listen to my pleading

    Kai
    0
  • Tony Tervoert
    Hi all
    I've just jumped aboard looking for some help with this new version.
    I'm really struggling with it I must say.
    I used to import the images, delete the ones that I stuffed up 😉 then rename and export as Jpegs or TIFFS. Not being able to rename after import is a pain right from the start.
    Everyone else seems to have covered why this version seems to be a step backwards for the working pro, so I won't repeat it here again. I simply have to go back to V3 to to able to continue working efficiently, which is ok while I'm still shooting with my 5D's, but where do I go once they are replaced? (fairly soon I would imagine)
    I've been working with Capture One for a few years now and to have to change my workflow so drastically with a different software will be hard work.
    I'll keep V4 in the hope that some major improvements are made and/or I learn more about the program, but I've spent a few days with it now without success, and that's enough for now.
    Good luck all.
    Cheers
    Tony
    0
  • Matthew2
    I have the pro version and have pre paid for the five upgrades.

    I am fed up giving feedback to Phase One and waiting years for an upgrade not a downgrade.

    Rather than complaining, I have spent the last few weeks learning how to make the most of Lightroom. Martin Evening's book on Lightroom was designed for Ver 1. With the release of Lightroom 1.1 Martin released a pdf update for his book covering the 1.1 features only. The pdf is 178 pages. I am only as far as page 30. One can only be impressed with the upgraded functionality added. Lightroom 1.0 to 1.1 is an upgrade. Phase One please note.

    I am not waiting any longer for Phase One to listen to their customers. I will have changed several camera bodies by then and cannot afford to be caught in a cul the sac with version 3.7. I also need offline activation.

    I really hope Capture One survives as a product or better still, some one takes its engine and put it into a body it deserves. I know Phase One does not have the same resources as Adobe, but we have been waiting for an upgrade to Capture One long before Lightroom was a concept.


    Ps.
    With Lightroom I can activate it without connecting my precious imaging workstation to the internet. That is the straw that has broken this poor camel's back. I also get a better workflow for my printing.

    .
    0
  • Tony Tervoert
    That's good information, thanks.
    I'm also about to get into Lightroom for many of the same reasons as you.
    I guess we'd better not discucc it futher on this forum though. 😂
    0

Vous devez vous connecter pour laisser un commentaire.