Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

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35 commentaires

  • Paul Steunebrink
    First, after your (big) import, you best do a verification of your catalog database (File menu > Verify Catalog or Session). This hopefully improves the performance of your smart albums.

    You can include multiple statements in a smart album (name kids, 4 stars). In the dialog for smart album properties, top left, you see Match all/any of the following rules. With all/any you can make multiple criteria inclusive or not.
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  • Tim Clardy
    I did that and it did not find any problems. Odd behavior indeed but at least I figured out how to get the keyword photos to show up.

    Do you know if you can put multiple keywords in on queuery, I know in Lightroom you would separate them by commas and it would pick up all three.
    The problem I have is I cannot figure out how to do an any and an all in one smart album. I need it to match any on the multiple names to include any photos with those names and then have it do an all to only show the five star photos. Confused how to do this in one smart album. In lightroom you could specify whether each item was an any or an all, in C1 it seems like all lines are either anys or alls.
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  • amercado
    I’m experiencing a similar issue with dates in my Smart Albums: when I enter a date in the album’s search criteria, none of the images created on that date are displayed.

    The date and time are set correctly on my Mac and the camera, so it is not an issue of the metadata having an incorrect timestamp.

    I found a workaround to solve the issue by entering the day before the needed date in the album’s search criteria. For example, if I want the album to display images created on December 4th, I have to enter December 3rd in the album’s search criteria.

    For reference, I am using:
    C1 Pro 12.0, Build 12.0.0.270 (2a5fb5)
    Nikon D300S, ver. 1.0.2
    Mac Pro (Mid 2010), macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
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  • SFA
    [quote="amercado@aglgemlab" wrote:
    I’m experiencing a similar issue with dates in my Smart Albums: when I enter a date in the album’s search criteria, none of the images created on that date are displayed.

    The date and time are set correctly on my Mac and the camera, so it is not an issue of the metadata having an incorrect timestamp.

    I found a workaround to solve the issue by entering the day before the needed date in the album’s search criteria. For example, if I want the album to display images created on December 4th, I have to enter December 3rd in the album’s search criteria.

    For reference, I am using:
    C1 Pro 12.0, Build 12.0.0.270 (2a5fb5)
    Nikon D300S, ver. 1.0.2
    Mac Pro (Mid 2010), macOS High Sierra 10.13.6


    Could this be related to Time Zones in some way?
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  • amercado
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Could this be related to Time Zones in some way?


    I'm not sure. The Mac and camera are both set to the same time zone and have the daylight savings adjustment turned off. If there is a difference between their clocks, it would only be by about a second.
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  • SFA
    [quote="amercado@aglgemlab" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Could this be related to Time Zones in some way?


    I'm not sure. The Mac and camera are both set to the same time zone and have the daylight savings adjustment turned off. If there is a difference between their clocks, it would only be by about a second.


    But what date and time do you see in the image file?

    As far as I can see you have not mentioned whether you are using a catalog or a session. I use sessions so my suggestion may be slightly differently presented in a catalog but as I recall it is much the same.

    In the Library sections with the Albums and smart albums creation you should somewhere find a "Filters" and by default some automatically generated and dynamically maintained filter fields. One of them should be "date".

    The filter will display a list of all the dates it finds in the current selection of images. It can be expanded or contracted with YEAR as the top level.

    You can use select a single date for which to display images using the tick button for the date. Or multiple dates by shift and click on each of the dates you wish to select. How do those dates compare with your Smart Album selections? (You can use the Metadata tool to see the full date and time.)

    Smart Albums by date work as expected for me but I'm using Windows so there is expectation but no certainty that the same can be said for Mac due to differences in the operating system amongst other things.

    HTH.

    Grant
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  • amercado
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    But what date and time do you see in the image file?

    The correct date and time are shown in Metadata tool. For example, it displays 12/06/2018, 12:03:21PM.

    I am using sessions. In the edit window for my smart album, there are two sections for the rules: Search Criteria, and Active Filters. Under Search Criteria, I have this rule set, Date is on 12/5/2018. I have no Active Filters set. If I change the date to 12/6/2018, the smart album immediately empties. When I select any previous date, images from the day after this date will populate the album.

    I also made sure the Search field in the Browser toolbar was clear. I'm not aware of any other areas within the application to apply filters or rules.

    So far I can live with this anomaly, however I can't figure out what is causing this behavior.
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  • SFA
    [quote="amercado@aglgemlab" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    But what date and time do you see in the image file?

    The correct date and time are shown in Metadata tool. For example, it displays 12/06/2018, 12:03:21PM.

    I am using sessions. In the edit window for my smart album, there are two sections for the rules: Search Criteria, and Active Filters. Under Search Criteria, I have this rule set, Date is on 12/5/2018. I have no Active Filters set. If I change the date to 12/6/2018, the smart album immediately empties. When I select any previous date, images from the day after this date will populate the album.

    I also made sure the Search field in the Browser toolbar was clear. I'm not aware of any other areas within the application to apply filters or rules.

    So far I can live with this anomaly, however I can't figure out what is causing this behavior.


    There is a Filters tool and you can specify the metadata fields for which you wish to have readily available radio button type selections. Date is one of the default fields and gives a hierarchy of YEAR>Month>Day. It would be interesting to know what that shows.

    Also, what International Locale your system is set to currently?


    Grant
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  • amercado
    [quote="amercado@aglgemlab" wrote:
    There is a Filters tool and you can specify the metadata fields for which you wish to have readily available radio button type selections. Date is one of the default fields and gives a hierarchy of YEAR>Month>Day. It would be interesting to know what that shows.

    Also, what International Locale your system is set to currently?


    Oh wow, I had not noticed that tool before, however I instantly love it! Thanks for highlighting it!

    Using the Filter tool, the browser displays the correct images for the date selected. I also refined the filter by using the advanced search accessed via the ellipsis in the tool's search field. Using the Create Smart Album button in the advanced search resulted in an album with the correct images.

    The anomaly I was experiencing earlier is only occurring via the + button in the Session Albums section of the Library tool.

    Also, my Mac is set to Eastern Standard Time (+5), as is my Nikon.
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  • SFA
    I'm glad you are enjoying the filter!

    Your persistent problem seems strange indeed.

    There is nothing I can think of in the settings you have that would seem likely to affect the selection by day with an image time in the middle of the day. And the fact that every other filter option works suggests that it's not a data or data interpretation problem but more likely some sort of internal problem. Whether a bug or a bad value in a file cretaed as part of an installation process is difficult to say.

    I would suggest creating a Support Case and taking it up with the C1 Support Team.

    It may be something they have seen before. If not they will probably now where to investigate in the depths of the code!

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • mli20
    [quote="NNN636770703923053790" wrote:

    The problem I have is I cannot figure out how to do an any and an all in one smart album. I need it to match any on the multiple names to include any photos with those names and then have it do an all to only show the five star photos. Confused how to do this in one smart album. In lightroom you could specify whether each item was an any or an all, in C1 it seems like all lines are either anys or alls.

    I believe you are absolutely correct,; In Capture One any/all cannot be set on a per line basis.

    MLI
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  • SFA
    [quote="mli20" wrote:
    [quote="NNN636770703923053790" wrote:

    The problem I have is I cannot figure out how to do an any and an all in one smart album. I need it to match any on the multiple names to include any photos with those names and then have it do an all to only show the five star photos. Confused how to do this in one smart album. In lightroom you could specify whether each item was an any or an all, in C1 it seems like all lines are either anys or alls.

    I believe you are absolutely correct,; In Capture One any/all cannot be set on a per line basis.

    MLI


    I can't speak for Mac but using Windows there are certainly possibilities to add a selection line (or group of lines) with a Match option (All or Any).

    On the left of the definition window is a column for + that when clicked allows the creation of a new selection line.

    If a new selection is created, on the RIGHT of the selection line should be a - and + sign.

    Click the + and above that line a Match definition option will appear. (- will remove the line.)

    The selection for the Match will apply to the selected line and all subsequent lines until another Match line is created.

    If you wish to make a search something really complex I suspect that is possible. The combination of logic for the MASTER All/Any option and the sub-fields and groups of fields might be somewhat challenging - as it is in many database search tools.

    However, since each line can be activated/deactivated individually a more practical use might be to create a default search field selector with fixed values for searches one uses regularly and then activate or deactivate individual lines as required to fulfil a particular search combination. You can save the search window as a Preset for future use.

    Bear in mind that you can also have active filters applied.


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • mli20
    [quote="SFA" wrote:


    I can't speak for Mac but using Windows there are certainly possibilities to add a selection line (or group of lines) with a Match option (All or Any).

    On the left of the definition window is a column for + that when clicked allows the creation of a new selection line.

    If a new selection is created, on the RIGHT of the selection line should be a - and + sign.

    Click the + and above that line a Match definition option will appear. (- will remove the line.)

    The selection for the Match will apply to the selected line and all subsequent lines until another Match line is created.

    Grant


    A PC guy myself. I am with you mostly, but in the per line leftmost dropdown listbox, choosing "All" is not an option. In my understanding that's the core of the problem.

    MLI
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  • SFA
    [quote="mli20" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:


    I can't speak for Mac but using Windows there are certainly possibilities to add a selection line (or group of lines) with a Match option (All or Any).

    On the left of the definition window is a column for + that when clicked allows the creation of a new selection line.

    If a new selection is created, on the RIGHT of the selection line should be a - and + sign.

    Click the + and above that line a Match definition option will appear. (- will remove the line.)

    The selection for the Match will apply to the selected line and all subsequent lines until another Match line is created.

    Grant


    A PC guy myself. I am with you mostly, but in the per line leftmost dropdown listbox, choosing "All" is not an option. In my understanding that's the core of the problem.

    MLI


    Second column but first drop down box column? Defaults to "Any"?

    That refers to Any field in the list of available fields. Slightly odd in a way but quite useful if you think of some possibly helpful way to find an image but do not know which field might contain the data string.

    It's not the same as Any or All in the matching method options.

    Does that explain it or have I miss interpreted your point?


    Grant
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  • mli20
    You are not addressing the missing "All" option. I was very specific that I consider that to be the core problem...?

    However, I notice that the OP has not been around since last wednesday. Thus I feel my interest in the subject rapidly waning, and continuing our discussion might not really be worth our while. 😐

    MLI
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  • SFA
    I don't perceive a missing "All" problem. At least not in the drop down box listing available fields.

    "All" fields are empty would be the only possibility I can think of as a possible search and given that empty EXIF data in a digital file from a camera would be a rare occurrence I can't see how it would be useful in the context of C1.

    It might, however, be confusing.


    Grant
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  • mli20
    [quote="NNN636770703923053790" wrote:

    ...It was easy in Lightroom.   For example, I could have a smart collection with the names of my three kids and only include 4 star and above ratings. ...

    Expressed in Boolean Algebra (example with 2 children):

    [ Name equals "Bert" OR Name equals "Susie" ] AND Rating is greater than or equal to "Four stars"

    In C1 smart album defs. there is no concept of neither the Boolean operators (AND, OR) nor brackets, both essential to expressing your criterion. Looks like it can't be done in Capture One.

    "Easy in Lightroom" ? I'd love to see how you would go about it.

    MLI
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  • Tim Clardy
    [quote="mli20" wrote:
    [quote="NNN636770703923053790" wrote:

    ...It was easy in Lightroom.   For example, I could have a smart collection with the names of my three kids and only include 4 star and above ratings. ...

    Expressed in Boolean Algebra (example with 2 children):

    [ Name equals "Bert" OR Name equals "Susie" ] AND Rating is greater than or equal to "Four stars"

    In C1 smart album defs. there is no concept of neither the Boolean operators (AND, OR) nor brackets, both essential to expressing your criterion. Looks like it can't be done in Capture One.

    "Easy in Lightroom" ? I'd love to see how you would go about it.

    MLI


    Thanks for putting it into a logical Boolean example. I am not able to figure out how to do this. A work around is to do a smart album for each name that has a rating of 4+ and then no need for an and and an all. Very easy in lightroom would like to see this in C1. I am getting the feeling that it is a trade off, the DAM part of Lightroom is better but the image quality is better in C1. Wish this was like burger king and we could get it our way and have both in C1.
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  • Tim Clardy
    [quote="mli20" wrote:
    [quote="NNN636770703923053790" wrote:

    ...It was easy in Lightroom.   For example, I could have a smart collection with the names of my three kids and only include 4 star and above ratings. ...

    Expressed in Boolean Algebra (example with 2 children):

    [ Name equals "Bert" OR Name equals "Susie" ] AND Rating is greater than or equal to "Four stars"

    In C1 smart album defs. there is no concept of neither the Boolean operators (AND, OR) nor brackets, both essential to expressing your criterion. Looks like it can't be done in Capture One.

    "Easy in Lightroom" ? I'd love to see how you would go about it.

    MLI

    You can use commas between names on the search criteria in light room when you create the rule. This makes it include everything that is in the field. You then add your all line for 4+ star rating and you get all the 4+ star rated photos that have the keywords listed in the any. In C1 you end up with these plus every 4+ star rated photo in your collection.
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  • mli20
    [quote="NNN636770703923053790" wrote:
    ...
    You can use commas between names on the search criteria in light room when you create the rule. This makes it include everything that is in the field. You then add your all line for 4+ star rating and you get all the 4+ star rated photos that have the keywords listed in the any. In C1 you end up with these plus every 4+ star rated photo in your collection.

    Sure enough, works a treat, thank you 😄 . Can you point me to some documentation on this subject?

    MLI
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  • Tim Clardy
    [quote="mli20" wrote:
    [quote="NNN636770703923053790" wrote:
    ...
    You can use commas between names on the search criteria in light room when you create the rule. This makes it include everything that is in the field. You then add your all line for 4+ star rating and you get all the 4+ star rated photos that have the keywords listed in the any. In C1 you end up with these plus every 4+ star rated photo in your collection.

    Sure enough, works a treat, thank you 😄 . Can you point me to some documentation on this subject?

    MLI


    Not sure of any documentation. What are you referring to? i had trouble finding anything out there on creating more complex queries for smart albums.
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  • mli20
    [quote="NNN636770703923053790" wrote:


    Not sure of any documentation. What are you referring to? i had trouble finding anything out there on creating more complex queries for smart albums.

    I realize I have said more than enough on the subject of LR, observing forum rule #8, and this being a Capture One forum. Thanks again.

    MLI
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  • ericnepean
    I think you all have missed a very useful feature of Capture One 12, which enables the Boolean operators (AND, OR) and brackets

    In the advanced search window, entering the first query line doesn't provide much flexibility. After the first query line has been created, there are two "plus" buttons that allow you to add more lines .

    The "plus" button on the left just below the first query lines, just adds another query line, which has an AND or OR function, depending on the setting of All or Any at the top. Standard stuff.

    However the "plus" button to the right of a query line creates a new line, and this line and the new line become part of a new subgroup with its own All or Any setting. Effectively a bracketed group of queries has been created by this operation.

    The interface is a little tricky to understand. Here's a proceedure that demonstrates some of thee behaviours.

      1) Using the left hand plus button, create three query lines.
      2) Click the plus button to the right of the middle line, three times.
      3) Click the plus button to the right of the bottom line.
      4) Click the left hand plus button
      5) Click the plus button to the right of the bottom line.


    Note that clicking a right hand "plus" button generates a line which does NOT have a plus button to the right. The new line cannot become part of a different subgroup (bracketed set)
    Clicking the left hand "plus" button generates a line has does have a plus button to the right. It can be beome part of a new subgroup.
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  • mli20
    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
    ...

    That's sweet, for sure. Any documentation on this? ❓

    The remaining problem for the OP now is, that C1 does not comprise a searchable field suitable for his childrens' names.

    In the IPTC Extension he would have "Description/Person Shown" and "Models/Additional Info" fields available, smooth sailing. However, I'm not aware that the IPTC Extension is catered for in the Professionals Choice in imaging editing software. Does anyone know? ❓

    MLI
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
    I think you all have missed a very useful feature of Capture One 12, which enables the Boolean operators (AND, OR) and brackets.

    Excellent post, Eric! Something to write a blog post about, I said to myself 😉
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="mli20" wrote:
    (...)
    However, I'm not aware that the IPTC Extension is catered for in the Professionals Choice in imaging editing software. Does anyone know?

    As far as I know, the IPTC Extension is (still) not supported in Capture One Pro 12.
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  • mli20
    [quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:

    As far as I know, the IPTC Extension is (still) not supported in Capture One Pro 12.

    Thanks Paul, I take "still" to indicate that this has been discussed before.

    MLI
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="mli20" wrote:
    [quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:

    As far as I know, the IPTC Extension is (still) not supported in Capture One Pro 12.

    Thanks Paul, I take "still" to indicate that this has been discussed before.

    Yes indeed.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
    I think you all have missed a very useful feature of Capture One 12, which enables the Boolean operators (AND, OR) and brackets.

    Excellent post, Eric! Something to write a blog post about, I said to myself 😉


    See also my posts on the evening of 11th December ....

    😉
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  • ericnepean
    Regarding the IPTC extension, there are quite many IPTC fields, and many people use only a few of these.

    I use some of these for my own unrelated purposes, I start the hijacked field with a tag like this [ADJ] to indicate what information has been placed into the field.

    (e.g. I’m now working on an AppleScript that lists all the adjustments in the Getty Personalities field, to enable searching on type of adjustment. The first 5 characters are [ADJ], so this can included as part of the search query)
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