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History Palette yet?????

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26 commentaires

  • Robert Farhi
    Contrary to Lightroom, this is not the philosophy of Capture One : all the tools are independant and can be adjusted without following any sequence, which means that you can go back to any tool at any time. You don't need any history tool, then. And this since the first versions of Capture One....
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  • Emile Gregoire
    In LR the tools are independent too, so that can't be the reason. As a user I too like to see what I did with (or to 😄 ) an image from time to time, neatly summed up in a history window.

    Best move to make it happen is put in a feature request. If there are enough requests, it might happen. Requests can be entered in the support section of the 'my pages' area on phaseone.com
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  • David Bean
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    Contrary to Lightroom, this is not the philosophy of Capture One : all the tools are independant and can be adjusted without following any sequence, which means that you can go back to any tool at any time. You don't need any history tool, then. And this since the first versions of Capture One....


    I don't think you understand how Lightroom works. It's super, incredibly, amazingly efficient at workflow due to the snapshot and history features. It BLOWS C1 away with the ability to move back and forth on a timeline of adjustments.

    I've seen so many people ask for this in C1 and it seems to fall on deaf ears.
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  • Robert Farhi
    [quote="NNN634306418099996773" wrote:
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    Contrary to Lightroom, this is not the philosophy of Capture One : all the tools are independant and can be adjusted without following any sequence, which means that you can go back to any tool at any time. You don't need any history tool, then. And this since the first versions of Capture One....


    I don't think you understand how Lightroom works. It's super, incredibly, amazingly efficient at workflow due to the snapshot and history features. It BLOWS C1 away with the ability to move back and forth on a timeline of adjustments.

    I've seen so many people ask for this in C1 and it seems to fall on deaf ears.


    I have worked with Lightroom from the beginning (LR1), and I switched to Capture One 3 years ago. So, about 6 or 7 years of Lightroom. Yes, there is a "history" in Lightroom, I agree, and you can see what you have done (you can see also what you have done by reading the settings in each C1 tool !!). But if you want to go back to a step in LR, you have to add a new "history step" in which you cancel the preceding by making an other setting. For the same tool, you have then multiple "history steps". I prefer the way C1 works, but this is only ly opinion, of course.
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  • Robert Farhi
    There is a way to get simultaneously adjustment layers similar to the Photoshop ones AND a history palette: you only have to use the layers (you can stack up to 16 layers) with the usual tools, and using opacity. It means that, instead of working on the RAW background alone, you work now on the layers. And you can see the effect of each layer, and suppress some, as you like.
    You can see, for instance:
    http://alexonraw.com/capture-one-11/
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  • SFA
    Also you can use variants.

    The concept of variants and the equivalent options I have used in other software have always seemed to me to be much more powerful than history lists.

    Much more powerful.


    Grant
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  • ---
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Also you can use variants.

    The concept of variants and the equivalent options I have used in other software have always seemed to me to be much more powerful than history lists.

    Much more powerful.


    Grant



    really ? nothing is more convenient, fast and fool proof than a history lists when you only want to go back a few steps but it also helps to keep track what adjustments you have already applied to an image.
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  • Edward Caruso
    I've been using COP since v3 and there have been times when I've thought that a history function would be useful. It would have to be separated from the tethering function though.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Horseoncowboy " wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Also you can use variants.

    The concept of variants and the equivalent options I have used in other software have always seemed to me to be much more powerful than history lists.

    Much more powerful.


    Grant



    really ? nothing is more convenient, fast and fool proof than a history lists when you only want to go back a few steps but it also helps to keep track what adjustments you have already applied to an image.


    Unless you can set a flag against the last step you were interested in and want to go back to I would disagree for much of the time.

    Using another system WITH history and go back facilities depending on what one was doing it was far more time consuming to work out which point to go back to than it was to create an edit version and then proceed from there. You knew exactly where you were going back to. And why.

    In C1 that is the variant option. The big difference is that using the approach that C1 takes to variants using C1 is faster.


    Just my opinion of course.

    Personally I would prefer not to have to waste (in my view) system resources managing a history list.


    Grant
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  • Robert Farhi
    [quote="Horseoncowboy " wrote:

    really ? nothing is more convenient, fast and fool proof than a history lists when you only want to go back a few steps but it also helps to keep track what adjustments you have already applied to an image.


    Once again, if you make your adjustments using layers (most of the tools are available now, with the progressivity of the "opacity" cursor) rather than using your RAW background, you have your history palette : the stacking of layers.
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  • Gustavo Ferlizi
    The grass is always greener on the other side... 😜
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  • Abbott Schindler
    I've rarely thought about a history function. I have several editing apps that have them and find that if I want to go back in "history", I end up using a snapshot and going back to it.

    In C1, if you really want to use snapshot-like functionality, just create a clone of the variant you want to shapshot. Doesn't take up much space, and unlike a history palette, you can directly compare the clones, side-by-side, and look at the settings that were different. I find this useful, vs straight history.

    Also useful, as others have mentioned, is using appropriately labeled layers. The combination of layers + variant clones works very nicely, at least for me.
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  • nbirkett
    Many good ideas that I need to try out. But, sometimes history can be useful. Say you have an image partial 'done'. Then, you start new making changes to the image, including changes settings on the partially done version. But, you aren't thinking you will need to go back to the earlier state because you are sure what you want. So you won't have created a variant prior starting to do the changes. In that case, a history panel is useful. You can't look at each slider and re-set the changes because you don't know the values that you had used prior to the latest round of changes. I guess you could make a new variant prior to every change but that would be wasteful. And I thought that version 11 limited the number of layers you could use to 16?

    What's wrong with having all of these options available?
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  • SFA
    [quote="nbirkett" wrote:
    Many good ideas that I need to try out. But, sometimes history can be useful. Say you have an image partial 'done'. Then, you start new making changes to the image, including changes settings on the partially done version. But, you aren't thinking you will need to go back to the earlier state because you are sure what you want. So you won't have created a variant prior starting to do the changes. In that case, a history panel is useful. You can't look at each slider and re-set the changes because you don't know the values that you had used prior to the latest round of changes. I guess you could make a new variant prior to every change but that would be wasteful. And I thought that version 11 limited the number of layers you could use to 16?

    What's wrong with having all of these options available?


    Overheads for the system.

    Cost of development resource and the need to maintain the approach for every change and enhancement.

    99 out of 100 commenters saying they would have mad it work differently but none of them agreeing how that should be ... 😉

    Confusion for newcomers to the product.

    How to deal with potential duplication from multiple styles.

    Should undo (which WILL be demanded) undo an entire style of the component adjustment within the style one by one?

    As the adjustments are all non-destructive does the history really matter?

    Historically speaking I used to ponder about the list of things you mentioned when I used an application with change history. Moving away from that option and having no change history available I realised, that for my needs, it was not important at all when the application in use demanded much less effort to get a result that was as good as needed.

    Where an image has multiple processing options it is always, to my way of thinking, more advantageous to have a ready comparison alongside in order to be able to very quickly see what you are doing. Especially for a system that is based on recalculating from the base upwards for significant changes. Slow and unnecessary I would suggest.


    Grant
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  • ---
    [quote="SFA" wrote:


    Overheads for the system.

    Cost of development resource and the need to maintain the approach for every change and enhancement.

    99 out of 100 commenters saying they would have mad it work differently but none of them agreeing how that should be ... 😉

    Confusion for newcomers to the product.

    How to deal with potential duplication from multiple styles.

    Should undo (which WILL be demanded) undo an entire style of the component adjustment within the style one by one?

    As the adjustments are all non-destructive does the history really matter?

    Historically speaking I used to ponder about the list of things you mentioned when I used an application with change history. Moving away from that option and having no change history available I realised, that for my needs, it was not important at all when the application in use demanded much less effort to get a result that was as good as needed.

    Where an image has multiple processing options it is always, to my way of thinking, more advantageous to have a ready comparison alongside in order to be able to very quickly see what you are doing. Especially for a system that is based on recalculating from the base upwards for significant changes. Slow and unnecessary I would suggest.


    Grant



    don't no if you are a good photographer but you would make for sure a great politician !
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  • ---
    [quote="nbirkett" wrote:
    What's wrong with having all of these options available?


    nothing but you are obviously not a member of the c1 sect so you cannot see the great benefit of not having it 😉
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  • David Bean
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="nbirkett" wrote:
    Many good ideas that I need to try out. But, sometimes history can be useful. Say you have an image partial 'done'. Then, you start new making changes to the image, including changes settings on the partially done version. But, you aren't thinking you will need to go back to the earlier state because you are sure what you want. So you won't have created a variant prior starting to do the changes. In that case, a history panel is useful. You can't look at each slider and re-set the changes because you don't know the values that you had used prior to the latest round of changes. I guess you could make a new variant prior to every change but that would be wasteful. And I thought that version 11 limited the number of layers you could use to 16?

    What's wrong with having all of these options available?


    Overheads for the system.

    Cost of development resource and the need to maintain the approach for every change and enhancement.

    99 out of 100 commenters saying they would have mad it work differently but none of them agreeing how that should be ... 😉

    Confusion for newcomers to the product.

    How to deal with potential duplication from multiple styles.

    Should undo (which WILL be demanded) undo an entire style of the component adjustment within the style one by one?

    As the adjustments are all non-destructive does the history really matter?

    Historically speaking I used to ponder about the list of things you mentioned when I used an application with change history. Moving away from that option and having no change history available I realised, that for my needs, it was not important at all when the application in use demanded much less effort to get a result that was as good as needed.

    Where an image has multiple processing options it is always, to my way of thinking, more advantageous to have a ready comparison alongside in order to be able to very quickly see what you are doing. Especially for a system that is based on recalculating from the base upwards for significant changes. Slow and unnecessary I would suggest.


    Grant


    And yet somehow Adobe manages to do all of this perfectly without confusing anyone. I echo what was said before about the fact that you never know at what stage you want to go back to. You can't make a variant for every single change you make. And if you're only allowed to make 16 layers, then that's useless for history.

    A history palette is THE easiest AND quickest way to work, especially if it also has a snapshot feature like Lightroom does. The lack of a history function is THE biggest failure of C1 by far!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • John Doe
    While I agree that a history palette would be a great addition, I don't understand why you talk about layers in relation to variants. They are not related.
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  • David Bean
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    While I agree that a history palette would be a great addition, I don't understand why you talk about layers in relation to variants. They are not related.


    I'm not saying they're related, it's just those are the 2 different workarounds people suggest for mimicking a history tool. Both of which are a far cry from an actual history tool.
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN634306418099996773" wrote:
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    While I agree that a history palette would be a great addition, I don't understand why you talk about layers in relation to variants. They are not related.


    I'm not saying they're related, it's just those are the 2 different workarounds people suggest for mimicking a history tool. Both of which are a far cry from an actual history tool.


    True, but I suspect that my meaning for that would be the polar opposite to yours.

    Each to their own way of working of course. I don't miss having a history tool in any way.

    Grant
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  • John Doe
    You don't miss it, but it wouldn't change anything for you if there was one. And it would make those who want it happy.
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  • SFA
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    You don't miss it, but it wouldn't change anything for you if there was one. And it would make those who want it happy.


    Except system overheads etc. as mentioned above.

    If using it was optional (especially for batch processing, copy and paste for a few hundred images, etc. ) then my only objections would be about using the development resources for something that I would see as unnecessary and, as a hot topic of the moment, paying for one more thing I neither use nor need. And paying for its future maintenance on the same basis.

    In addition when you have to "Apply" or "Accept" a change you have a decision point for updating the history record.

    When you don't have to do that (i.e. most of C1) how long to you leave it after the slider stops sliding before you record the change in the history? Or do you make it so the user hits a special hot key when they want to register a change point?

    Also the disappointment of feeling that people are not even prepared to investigate whether there are real benefits to be obtained from an alternative approach - which is exactly what I found with other software some years ago and why I was delighted to see the Variants concept so readily available when I finally decided to take a look at Capture One.
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  • David Bean
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    You don't miss it, but it wouldn't change anything for you if there was one. And it would make those who want it happy.


    When you don't have to do that (i.e. most of C1) how long to you leave it after the slider stops sliding before you record the change in the history? Or do you make it so the user hits a special hot key when they want to register a change point?


    You're making it way harder than it needs to be. Photoshop and Lightroom do it in a way that is absolutely perfect and have been for years. I know C1 functions slightly different, but doesn't have to be such a nightmare to develop. You're way overthinking it.
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN634306418099996773" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    You don't miss it, but it wouldn't change anything for you if there was one. And it would make those who want it happy.


    When you don't have to do that (i.e. most of C1) how long to you leave it after the slider stops sliding before you record the change in the history? Or do you make it so the user hits a special hot key when they want to register a change point?


    You're making it way harder than it needs to be. Photoshop and Lightroom do it in a way that is absolutely perfect and have been for years. I know C1 functions slightly different, but doesn't have to be such a nightmare to develop. You're way overthinking it.



    How do you know?


    Grant
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  • ryanhphoto
    Having an effiecient history pallette separates the men from the boys when it comes to pro photo software. Any pro editing software that does not have it seems like an amateur.
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  • Benjamin Kim
    I posted about this but nobody ever responds.

    History palette is really comfortable to use for editing and retouching images. I can not just undo all the way back. I really can not understand why Capture One Pro does not have that feature? In the real experience, having lack of history palette is really uncomfortable and risky. This is a fact that history palette is much usable and quick to redo or undo.

    Also, lack of before/after is really disappointing. In C1P, you have to create a copy and then reset it in order to see before/after. It seems to be similar to Lightroom but def not convenient.

    So WHY NOT adding two features?
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