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C1P 11 still doesn't request discrete GPU in macOS 10.13.*

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33 commentaires

  • Christian Gruner
    Capture One is using all GPU's available, so it is a false negative you are seeing.
    You can test it simply by disabling/enabling the automatic switcher functionality, and then time an export of files. The time it takes to process the same number of file will remain constant, as boths adapter are being used regardless of the setting.
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  • Emile Gregoire
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    Capture One is using all GPU's available, so it is a false negative you are seeing.
    You can test it simply by disabling/enabling the automatic switcher functionality, and then time an export of files. The time it takes to process the same number of file will remain constant, as boths adapter are being used regardless of the setting.


    Is there a way for your developers to make it behave like it did in macOS Sierra and before? I've noticed there's a difference in calibration between the Intel onboard gpu and the discreet one and other programs seem to be able to let High Sierra behave. Or is it an Apple bug? For what it's worth, I went back to Sierra. High Sierra on my 2017 MBP is just too buggy at this point in time.
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  • Kaveh Vaghefi
    [quote="Emile" wrote:
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    Capture One is using all GPU's available, so it is a false negative you are seeing.
    You can test it simply by disabling/enabling the automatic switcher functionality, and then time an export of files. The time it takes to process the same number of file will remain constant, as boths adapter are being used regardless of the setting.


    Is there a way for your developers to make it behave like it did in macOS Sierra and before? I've noticed there's a difference in calibration between the Intel onboard gpu and the discreet one and other programs seem to be able to let High Sierra behave. Or is it an Apple bug? For what it's worth, I went back to Sierra. High Sierra on my 2017 MBP is just too buggy at this point in time.


    Yes, there seems to be a difference. Every time I open Capture One Pro when on the intel chip, it takes many minutes setting up hardware acceleration. When I switch back to the discrete GPU, it re-does the hardware acceleration setup. Christian, I get the feeling you don't use this on a macbook pro with integrated + discrete GPUs, otherwise you'd be feeling this pain.
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  • Emile Gregoire
    I actually meant screen calibration. I use a Spyder to calibrate it and opposed to macOS Sierra, in High Sierra there's a subtle difference in screen rendering when switching from onboard to discreet gpu. That's why I always calibrate using the discreet gpu, because all serious programs -including C1 until High Sierra- force the whole system to use the discreet gpu. With the advent of High Sierra this isn't the case anymore when using C1, so I need to check discreet graphics settings before firing up C1. It's a hassle. One of the things that made me revert to Sierra.
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  • Peter Orczykowski
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    Capture One is using all GPU's available, so it is a false negative you are seeing.
    You can test it simply by disabling/enabling the automatic switcher functionality, and then time an export of files. The time it takes to process the same number of file will remain constant, as boths adapter are being used regardless of the setting.


    So what you are saying is that Capture one uses discreet graphics even though clicking on Apple/About This Mac results in graphics adapter showing Indel HD? This is while Capture is running.
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  • evgeny buzov
    I can confirm that automatic graphic card switch works (or displays) incorrect -
    delay for switching to discrete card is way too long (OSX 10.13 MBP 15 Late 2013 NVIDIA 750M)
    for example - if i start aperture app switching performs immediately, same on other native OSX apps
    until this will be resolved I disabled automated graphics switching under preferences-energy saver so i am always on discrete (with more power consumption of cause)

    but as mentioned above - time to export is the same on discrete and onboard, may be its just OSX display bug
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="PeterO" wrote:
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    Capture One is using all GPU's available, so it is a false negative you are seeing.
    You can test it simply by disabling/enabling the automatic switcher functionality, and then time an export of files. The time it takes to process the same number of file will remain constant, as boths adapter are being used regardless of the setting.


    So what you are saying is that Capture one uses discreet graphics even though clicking on Apple/About This Mac results in graphics adapter showing Indel HD? This is while Capture is running.


    Yes.
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="Emile" wrote:
    I actually meant screen calibration. I use a Spyder to calibrate it and opposed to macOS Sierra, in High Sierra there's a subtle difference in screen rendering when switching from onboard to discreet gpu. That's why I always calibrate using the discreet gpu, because all serious programs -including C1 until High Sierra- force the whole system to use the discreet gpu. With the advent of High Sierra this isn't the case anymore when using C1, so I need to check discreet graphics settings before firing up C1. It's a hassle. One of the things that made me revert to Sierra.


    Well, good to have that clarified a bit more. That is a good bit different than the OpenCL usage when rendering. I will take a look into that next week.
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  • Emile Gregoire
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    [quote="Emile" wrote:
    I actually meant screen calibration. I use a Spyder to calibrate it and opposed to macOS Sierra, in High Sierra there's a subtle difference in screen rendering when switching from onboard to discreet gpu. That's why I always calibrate using the discreet gpu, because all serious programs -including C1 until High Sierra- force the whole system to use the discreet gpu. With the advent of High Sierra this isn't the case anymore when using C1, so I need to check discreet graphics settings before firing up C1. It's a hassle. One of the things that made me revert to Sierra.


    Well, good to have that clarified a bit more. That is a good bit different than the OpenCL usage when rendering. I will take a look into that next week.


    It's subtle and might only be brightness that's affected but I can see a difference while switching on my 2017 15" MBP. I had other graphic glitches under High Sierra. Suspect it's Metal 2. Then the laptop is continually synching with iCloud Photos while using discreet graphics and power nap, heating up the laptop until it's really hot during sleep. I've been testing things for Apple for weeks, hope they'll find the root problems, but until then it's Sierra for me.

    In other words, Christian, ignore my request and don't bother. There's a plethora of things Apple needs to fix; I don't think I'll be running High Sierra anytime soon...
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  • Kaveh Vaghefi
    On the contrary, please do look at it. The performance, especially when panning the image, leaves some to be desired when on the intel graphics chip.

    Furthermore, nothing has explained away the perpetual need to re-setup hardware acceleration when C1P starts with either the intel or the AMD chip already active.
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  • Gustavo Ferlizi
    [quote="Emile" wrote:
    I actually meant screen calibration. I use a Spyder to calibrate it and opposed to macOS Sierra, in High Sierra there's a subtle difference in screen rendering when switching from onboard to discreet gpu. That's why I always calibrate using the discreet gpu, because all serious programs -including C1 until High Sierra- force the whole system to use the discreet gpu. With the advent of High Sierra this isn't the case anymore when using C1, so I need to check discreet graphics settings before firing up C1. It's a hassle. One of the things that made me revert to Sierra.

    Could have to do with the recycled trash software that xRite and Datacolor use. Junk, junk, junk! 🤭
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  • Emile Gregoire
    [quote="gusferlizi" wrote:
    [quote="Emile" wrote:
    I actually meant screen calibration. I use a Spyder to calibrate it and opposed to macOS Sierra, in High Sierra there's a subtle difference in screen rendering when switching from onboard to discreet gpu. That's why I always calibrate using the discreet gpu, because all serious programs -including C1 until High Sierra- force the whole system to use the discreet gpu. With the advent of High Sierra this isn't the case anymore when using C1, so I need to check discreet graphics settings before firing up C1. It's a hassle. One of the things that made me revert to Sierra.

    Could have to do with the recycled trash software that xRite and Datacolor use. Junk, junk, junk! 🤭


    Agreed, so I don't use that 😊

    I used to use ColorEyes Display Pro but they went completely off the radar. These days I'm using BasICColor Display. Highly recommended!
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  • Gustavo Ferlizi
    [quote="Emile" wrote:
    [quote="gusferlizi" wrote:
    [quote="Emile" wrote:
    I actually meant screen calibration. I use a Spyder to calibrate it and opposed to macOS Sierra, in High Sierra there's a subtle difference in screen rendering when switching from onboard to discreet gpu. That's why I always calibrate using the discreet gpu, because all serious programs -including C1 until High Sierra- force the whole system to use the discreet gpu. With the advent of High Sierra this isn't the case anymore when using C1, so I need to check discreet graphics settings before firing up C1. It's a hassle. One of the things that made me revert to Sierra.

    Could have to do with the recycled trash software that xRite and Datacolor use. Junk, junk, junk! 🤭


    Agreed, so I don't use that 😊

    I used to use ColorEyes Display Pro but they went completely off the radar. These days I'm using BasICColor Display. Highly recommended!

    Nice, I heard that's good. I use DisplayCal at the moment. Free and Open Source.
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="kavehv" wrote:
    On the contrary, please do look at it. The performance, especially when panning the image, leaves some to be desired when on the intel graphics chip.

    Furthermore, nothing has explained away the perpetual need to re-setup hardware acceleration when C1P starts with either the intel or the AMD chip already active.


    The performance should be the same, as we from a rendering perspective always use all available GPU’s.
    I haven’t seen the rebuild of kernels on relaunch. I will suggest you write our Support Team. Remember to include your machine configuration, os version, and log files.
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  • Ivan Feign
    I too have noticed this issue since version 10. I use a menubar app, GfxCardStatus to manually switch GPUs before running Capture One.

    Any other app, like Photoshop or Premiere immediately requests the discrete GPU upon launch.
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  • indergaard
    There is a performance issue in all versions of 10.13.x (High Sierra) with DGPU's. It basically makes dGPU's perform about 70% worse than they should after the computer has been in Sleep mode for 1 hour or more. Can this be what you are experiencing?

    See this thread on Apple's support forums: https://discussions.apple.com/message/3 ... 6#32700229
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  • Ivan Feign
    [quote="indergaard" wrote:
    There is a performance issue in all versions of 10.13.x (High Sierra) with DGPU's. It basically makes dGPU's perform about 70% worse than they should after the computer has been in Sleep mode for 1 hour or more. Can this be what you are experiencing?

    See this thread on Apple's support forums: https://discussions.apple.com/message/3 ... 6#32700229

    That's a similar issue, however the C1 does't even call the DGPU when it is launched. They could be related, but I doubt it, since other software correctly calls for the DGPU
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="plorp" wrote:
    [quote="indergaard" wrote:
    There is a performance issue in all versions of 10.13.x (High Sierra) with DGPU's. It basically makes dGPU's perform about 70% worse than they should after the computer has been in Sleep mode for 1 hour or more. Can this be what you are experiencing?

    See this thread on Apple's support forums: https://discussions.apple.com/message/3 ... 6#32700229

    That's a similar issue, however the C1 does't even call the DGPU when it is launched. They could be related, but I doubt it, since other software correctly calls for the DGPU

    It does use it. Look in your CO log-files, and you'll see both GPU's being initialized for computation.
    What you see is what GPU is being used to send data to the monitor.
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  • Kaveh Vaghefi
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    [quote="plorp" wrote:
    [quote="indergaard" wrote:
    There is a performance issue in all versions of 10.13.x (High Sierra) with DGPU's. It basically makes dGPU's perform about 70% worse than they should after the computer has been in Sleep mode for 1 hour or more. Can this be what you are experiencing?

    See this thread on Apple's support forums: https://discussions.apple.com/message/3 ... 6#32700229

    That's a similar issue, however the C1 does't even call the DGPU when it is launched. They could be related, but I doubt it, since other software correctly calls for the DGPU

    It does use it. Look in your CO log-files, and you'll see both GPU's being initialized for computation.
    What you see is what GPU is being used to send data to the monitor.


    Christian, why did this behavior change in High Sierra then? In Sierra, the dGPU would activate to send data to the monitor no matter what in C1P. Also, why wouldn't you want to use the dGPU to draw to the screen when C1P is open? It would make everything feel more responsive rather than less. You have a bunch of users here telling you this is different from the way it was, but you don't seem to be understanding that we don't want you to defend how it works now, we would rather see the behavior fixed. Even Apple's own Photos.app triggers the dGPU upon opening, but C1P now uses iGPU instead. Why?
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  • Christian Gruner
    With regards to GPU usage, let me clarify:
    CO will use all available GPU's, also those not connected to a monitor. When you do adjustments to an image in the Viewer, all available GPU's are used to render the image. The image are split into a number of tiles, and distributed in a load-balanced way to the GPU's.
    You will not see any performance-benefits in CO from using one or the other MBP GPU to send to the monitor as a result of this.

    Try it out yourself: Time the processing of a certain amount of files. You will see there is no difference in processing time whether Mac OS is using the internal or dedicated GPU to display to monitor.
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  • Kaveh Vaghefi
    Christian,

    Even if this works as you say, every time I open C1P on a different GPU, it goes through the many-minute process of setting up hardware acceleration again. I open it when on Intel, it has to set up hardware acceleration. I plug into the monitor on my desk, it has to set up hardware acceleration. It didn't used to be this way as C1P used to request high performance graphics in Sierra and it would always run on the discrete GPU and wouldn't keep running its setup over and over everytime you switch. It's worse now than it was before.
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  • SFA
    [quote="kavehv" wrote:
    Christian,

    Even if this works as you say, every time I open C1P on a different GPU, it goes through the many-minute process of setting up hardware acceleration again. I open it when on Intel, it has to set up hardware acceleration. I plug into the monitor on my desk, it has to set up hardware acceleration. It didn't used to be this way as C1P used to request high performance graphics in Sierra and it would always run on the discrete GPU and wouldn't keep running its setup over and over everytime you switch. It's worse now than it was before.


    I think you may need to create a Support case to get specific personal support.

    Not being a Mac user I don't recall the details but I seem to remember that it is possible for old settings to be retained in the cache area after an installation update of sometimes for ransom reasons and that can result in the situation you describe.

    There will likely be old posts about this if the search terms available to you will find them. Sometimes is is difficult to be suitably specific to find old posts.


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="kavehv" wrote:
    Christian,

    Even if this works as you say, every time I open C1P on a different GPU, it goes through the many-minute process of setting up hardware acceleration again. I open it when on Intel, it has to set up hardware acceleration. I plug into the monitor on my desk, it has to set up hardware acceleration. It didn't used to be this way as C1P used to request high performance graphics in Sierra and it would always run on the discrete GPU and wouldn't keep running its setup over and over everytime you switch. It's worse now than it was before.


    I don't see this as an indication that the CPU isn't being used, more that there is something changing on the GPU, that triggers a rebuild of the kernels.
    CO always used both adapters, also on Sierra, no difference here.
    I will suggest you contact our Support Team, so they can take a closer look at your log-files.
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  • Correlli
    Even if this works as you say, every time I open C1P on a different GPU, it goes through the many-minute process of setting up hardware acceleration again. I open it when on Intel, it has to set up hardware acceleration. I plug into the monitor on my desk, it has to set up hardware acceleration. It didn't used to be this way as C1P used to request high performance graphics in Sierra and it would always run on the discrete GPU and wouldn't keep running its setup over and over everytime you switch. It's worse now than it was before.


    I did have the same problem (and created a support case).

    The solution for me was to delete the folder /Users/Shared/Capture One/ImageCore/. CO1 will rebuild it at the next start and from then on it should be fine - at least that was the solution for me.

    After upgrading CO1 or macOS this might still happen again, but after deleting the folder and rebuilding it everything is fine again.

    Hope this helps.

    Jan
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  • Bryce Steiner
    This is interesting that this topic came up because I have found that as long as I have automatic graphics switching tuned on C1 will take 3x longer to export my images than if I only have it set to use the dedicated GPU (I have the MacBook Pro with 4GB dedicated GPU.

    I checked in the software status (about this Mac/system report/software) and says CaptureOne is NOT requesting advanced graphics. Other software I have does such as JAlbum.

    It's amazing the difference in speed just by unchecking the box so I can tell that C1 can use the dedicated GPU but it's not requesting unless you force it.
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  • Kaveh Vaghefi
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    [quote="kavehv" wrote:
    Christian,

    Even if this works as you say, every time I open C1P on a different GPU, it goes through the many-minute process of setting up hardware acceleration again. I open it when on Intel, it has to set up hardware acceleration. I plug into the monitor on my desk, it has to set up hardware acceleration. It didn't used to be this way as C1P used to request high performance graphics in Sierra and it would always run on the discrete GPU and wouldn't keep running its setup over and over everytime you switch. It's worse now than it was before.


    I don't see this as an indication that the CPU isn't being used, more that there is something changing on the GPU, that triggers a rebuild of the kernels.
    CO always used both adapters, also on Sierra, no difference here.
    I will suggest you contact our Support Team, so they can take a closer look at your log-files.


    I have, case 271814 filed back in December. I submitted logs and the agent said they would check with the dev team:


    Thanks. I'm not sure why the OS isn't reporting Capture One is on the discrete GPU, though I can assure you that the OpenCL kernels in Capture One are using the discrete. I am going to bring this up with the dev team to see if I'm missing anything, but also perhaps the issue is that ImageCore (the rendering engine in Capture One) is technically using the GPU, rather than Capture One itself. I'll keep you posted when I find out more.

    Best regards,

    Phase One Technical Support


    This was at the beginning of December. Since then the case has been closed and I've heard nothing back.

    That still doesn't answer why C1P behaves correctly and enables the discrete GPU in 10.12.*, but not in 10.13.*. Something is wrong. I only have two GPUs, and I can guarantee you that nothing changes on either of them except that I now switch back and forth between them. This is a photo-editing application. It should be enabling high performance graphics to render things as fast as it can. Heck, even [the piece of **** that is] Photos.app does this. Why wouldn't you want your application to do this?
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="BryceSteiner" wrote:
    This is interesting that this topic came up because I have found that as long as I have automatic graphics switching tuned on C1 will take 3x longer to export my images than if I only have it set to use the dedicated GPU (I have the MacBook Pro with 4GB dedicated GPU.

    I checked in the software status (about this Mac/system report/software) and says CaptureOne is NOT requesting advanced graphics. Other software I have does such as JAlbum.

    It's amazing the difference in speed just by unchecking the box so I can tell that C1 can use the dedicated GPU but it's not requesting unless you force it.


    If it is 3 times faster, I think the problem is not whether or not is using one GPU or the other, but if it using the GPU's all together. Can you see if openCL is running, defautl an image, enable the focus mask, and do an exposure adjustment. If the focus mask disappears while dragging the slider, then OpenCL is used.
    If OpenCL is not running, I will suggest you write our Support team, so they can get you up running.

    As stated before, CO doesn't request the GPU's, it just uses them all (if supported). This is a fact, something I and the software engineers can see from debugging and from practical performance tests.
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  • Daniel Böttcher
    I have the similar problem.

    I just did a quick test: 11 different RAW images, all with some adjustments applied. Exported into a 2048px Version.
    Tested with and without the dGPU explicitly turned on.

    With integrated graphics: 21s
    With dGPU: 17 seconds.

    Doesn't sound like much but there is indeed a difference in performance. I don't know where it comes from when you say both GPUs are being used..
    Also applying adjustments feels faster with the dGPU active.
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="NN249438UL" wrote:
    I have the similar problem.

    I just did a quick test: 11 different RAW images, all with some adjustments applied. Exported into a 2048px Version.
    Tested with and without the dGPU explicitly turned on.

    With integrated graphics: 21s
    With dGPU: 17 seconds.

    Doesn't sound like much but there is indeed a difference in performance. I don't know where it comes from when you say both GPUs are being used..
    Also applying adjustments feels faster with the dGPU active.


    How did you force the switch? By indication util, by changing powerplan from energysetting or just the tickmark, or something completely different?
    Also, what Mac do you have ?
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  • Kaveh Vaghefi
    You can disable it in energy settings or just open any app that requests the discrete GPU (like Photos.app).

    The workaround posted about deleting some files is untenable. CP1 is supposed to be able to run versions side-by-side. I have both 10 and 11 installed, and every time I switch GPUs and versions, it has to set up hardware acceleration again. I keep getting told there is no problem here, yet I see it every time I open either version of C1P. Quite frankly, it's starting to get really frustrating.
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