Slow image loading (normal?)

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18 commentaires

  • Stephan Bollinger
    I feel your pain. Same happens here. And even slower when zooming in to 100%. It feels as if the image is re-rendered every time and previews are not used at all. Considering we're running C1pro on iMac Pro's with 64gb ram and catalogues on SSD drives, you'd expect a much faster display.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="NN635937057966702593UL" wrote:
    I feel your pain. Same happens here. And even slower when zooming in to 100%. It feels as if the image is re-rendered every time and previews are not used at all. Considering we're running C1pro on iMac Pro's with 64gb ram and catalogues on SSD drives, you'd expect a much faster display.

    What is your preview image size?
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="silent" wrote:
    (...)
    I'm just wondering if this is normal,
    (...)
    Specs:
    Capture One 12 (was the same when on 11)
    macOS 10.14.1
    MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017)
    2.9 GHz Intel Core i7
    16 GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
    Radeon Pro 560 4096 MB
    SSD Blackmagic speed test is: write: 1698 MB/s read: 1291 MB/s

    I would delete the ImageCore kernel for the OpenCL acceleration. It is on your HD/Users/Shared/Capture One/ImageCore folder. Next, start Capture One again and let it build a new kernel.

    If this fails to help, contact support on this. Performance issues are hard to solve in a forum.
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  • SFA
    [quote="silent" wrote:
    A video demoing the issue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKpChVlM6hA


    Hmm.

    Your video reminds me of something I looked at years ago with LR V1 and another application that was more like Capture One in the way that it worked.

    LR looked much faster to work with at the time in the way it presented to screen. But seemed no faster in full use when editing. I thought maybe the applications might be tuned for specific work flows and wondered if that could be adjusted in either or both of them.

    Running process on some files with the best I could come up with for equivalent edits that would take a while to process and give me an opportunity to attempt to measure the time (old and slow computer back then so some possibility to use a stop watch!) I began to realise that my none LR application took the instruction, went away and performed its calculations and then presented everything on screen in one hit (although written to the screen in 'blocks' as processed for display).

    LR, on the other hand, presented an instant and attention grabbing change on screen and then, if one looked carefully, continued to make changes until the task was complete but that effort was quite well hidden to the eye if one was not specifically looking for it.

    The net result was that both applications delivered the completed image, ready for the next activity, in about the same time to within tenths of a second so far as I could judge. But it didn't appear to be like that on screen.

    It was, I thought, a clever approach from LR. However I went with the other application and dropped LR because I did not much enjoy the need to import everything to the LR catalogue before doing anything else. And in any case the other program had a more powerful and flexible processing engine at that time.

    It would be interesting to know if LR still uses the same approach as it did back then for its way of presenting on screen.


    Grant
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  • silent
    Thanks for the suggestion Paul, I tried deleting the ImageCore, and it re-did that calculating thing, but didn't change anything ☹️

    Will give support a try.
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  • Jeff Talbert
    I have seen the same thing.


    Are you masters on the Mac drive or external?

    If you navigate to a photo, let it render, wait 2 seconds and go to the next, render, wait 2 seconds and next, and do this a few times, and then navigate backwards, do you still see the same issue?

    If not, close CO and open again, and see if the photos that now render fast, still render fast as you navigate.

    If so, I have an idea of what's going on, as I am seeing the same issue and think it may be tied to thumbnails.
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  • silent
    Yeah going through a few and doing what you say will totally remove the image loading time, until I go through too many photos, then it seems to lose it, and want to start generating images again. Maybe it's just loading a few in RAM, and purges old images when you look at too many photos down the timeline.

    Though I can't believe that it can't read ~20MB raw files from my SSD fast enough to load it, the SSD in this Mac is crazy fast, or at least a 2880px preview image, which should be much smaller and should be able to load in a few ms.

    PS, all my files are on my Mac, nothing is on an external drive.

    Edit: Just installed Lightroom classic again, it's not as fast as I recall in some parts, and just as fast in other parts. While it is faster in Libray mode, it's much slower in Dev mode, especially with editing, which is where CO shines, and that's something you want good, so won't be going back to LR any time soon.
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  • Jeff Talbert
    [quote="silent" wrote:
    Yeah going through a few and doing what you say will totally remove the image loading time, until I go through too many photos, then it seems to lose it, and want to start generating images again. Maybe it's just loading a few in RAM, and purges old images when you look at too many photos down the timeline.

    Though I can't believe that it can't read ~20MB raw files from my SSD fast enough to load it, the SSD in this Mac is crazy fast, or at least a 2880px preview image, which should be much smaller and should be able to load in a few ms.

    PS, all my files are on my Mac, nothing is on an external drive.

    Edit: Just installed Lightroom classic again, it's not as fast as I recall in some parts, and just as fast in other parts. While it is faster in Libray mode, it's much slower in Dev mode, especially with editing, which is where CO shines, and that's something you want good, so won't be going back to LR any time soon.



    I had the same issue and my masters are on an external drive.


    I just launched CO again and the same photos that were slow to load and then loaded fine, are slow to load again fully,

    I don't think its really a bug. I have my external Drive with my masters plugged in and experience what you saw.

    I see from the video your files are cr2, which are canon raw. files. The specs you gave are for your Mac. What camera do you have? Megapixel? What are the raw image sizes?

    I shoot with a D750 which is 24 megapixel and a my file size is about 30MB.

    I just opened LR to view. the same photos in LR that I just did in CO and in library mode, there is no delay in rendering phots, it probably uses the smart preview there. But when you switch to develop. There is a delay about the same as CO. It does not look as pixelated as CO. Lightroom shows the photo, and it takes about a second for it to fully render. So what your seeing I see, at least for me, LR have the same pause. The photos look better in LR than in CO while it renders but there is still a delay.

    In the future if/when CO goes to Metal2, things may be different, but since they still use OpenCL for CO 12, not sure. Will be interesting to see who uses Metal2 first, LR or CO. Probably LR. One reason why I had been looking at possibly switching from LR to something else, is Adobe is pushing cloud. Yes they are still developing LR CC Classic, but at some point, once they get alter tools and features in the new LR CC that it has in CC Classic, I can see Classic going away. Cloud is nice, but, I feel companies are pushing cloud too much. Call me old school, but I prefer local files and cloud backup, and not have cloud be primary source of data.

    I am happy I found CO. I am working on migrating my catalogs to CO. Just wish thumbnail rendering was better. But beyond that, I love using CO.
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  • silent
    I tried the new cloud Lightroom last night too, it was sluggish as for me, even just to scroll. I saw a video of someone else using it, and it seemed smooth, so suspect it's a bug with my install.

    I have a Canon 6D (20.2mp) my raw files are usually around 20-25MB.

    I found the develop mode slower then CO in LR CC classic, but library mode was definitely faster, but considering CO is effectively always in develop mode, what it is, and at the speed it does it, it's quite amazing, compared to LR (on my system at least).
    The only real thing I miss from LR is the built-in raw pano photo feature, I've not found any other app that does it as well and retains all the colours (without banding etc).

    But like you, I don't see LR CC classic being updated for much longer with LR CC around now, and from the short amount of time I spend in the new LR CC, I don't like it's editing options much at all, feels kinda like Apple's Photos app, but much slower and buggier.

    Yeah I'm not a big fan of "cloud" either, mostly because living in New Zealand it normally means your files have to go/come from the US or further away, most companies have no servers in NZ, so make the cloud kinda annoying here, + I don't want to pay a monthly price either.

    Yeah, the same feeling as you with CO, it's not perfect, but overall it's much better than the others I've used over the years.

    The only reason I really started this thread is to check if the slow image loading was normal or not, seems it is, so I can go back to waiting and hoping they'll optimize it one day.
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  • MESTE
    [quote="JTalbertPhoto" wrote:
    I have seen the same thing.


    Are you masters on the Mac drive or external?

    If you navigate to a photo, let it render, wait 2 seconds and go to the next, render, wait 2 seconds and next, and do this a few times, and then navigate backwards, do you still see the same issue?

    If not, close CO and open again, and see if the photos that now render fast, still render fast as you navigate.

    If so, I have an idea of what's going on, as I am seeing the same issue and think it may be tied to thumbnails.


    I tried what you said and the delay is still there even after been there before... My photos are on external source (on a MAC) - tried to delete the ImageCore but did not resolve the issue? I have seen this on CO11 as well, now I am on CO12 trial and was hoping to migrate from LR so I hope for a solution first...

    Edit: and why my account name is this silly NNN636786757607694624? On Phase One page I get the correct name and surname...
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636786757607694624" wrote:
    [quote="JTalbertPhoto" wrote:
    I have seen the same thing.


    Are you masters on the Mac drive or external?

    If you navigate to a photo, let it render, wait 2 seconds and go to the next, render, wait 2 seconds and next, and do this a few times, and then navigate backwards, do you still see the same issue?

    If not, close CO and open again, and see if the photos that now render fast, still render fast as you navigate.

    If so, I have an idea of what's going on, as I am seeing the same issue and think it may be tied to thumbnails.


    I tried what you said and the delay is still there even after been there before... My photos are on external source (on a MAC) - tried to delete the ImageCore but did not resolve the issue? I have seen this on CO11 as well, now I am on CO12 trial and was hoping to migrate from LR so I hope for a solution first...

    Edit: and why my account name is this silly NNN636786757607694624? On Phase One page I get the correct name and surname...


    The silly name is autogenerated to avoid lots of duplicated "NoName" users ....

    You can log in and change the name to anything you want (presumably so long as it is not already in use).

    Highly recommended - it can get very confusing trying to work out who is who with the auto names but it seems many people are no concerned enough to make a quick change on the file - or prefer to remain almost anonymous.


    Grant
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  • Jeff Talbert
    [quote="silent" wrote:
    I tried the new cloud Lightroom last night too, it was sluggish as for me, even just to scroll. I saw a video of someone else using it, and it seemed smooth, so suspect it's a bug with my install.

    I have a Canon 6D (20.2mp) my raw files are usually around 20-25MB.

    I found the develop mode slower then CO in LR CC classic, but library mode was definitely faster, but considering CO is effectively always in develop mode, what it is, and at the speed it does it, it's quite amazing, compared to LR (on my system at least).
    The only real thing I miss from LR is the built-in raw pano photo feature, I've not found any other app that does it as well and retains all the colours (without banding etc).

    But like you, I don't see LR CC classic being updated for much longer with LR CC around now, and from the short amount of time I spend in the new LR CC, I don't like it's editing options much at all, feels kinda like Apple's Photos app, but much slower and buggier.

    Yeah I'm not a big fan of "cloud" either, mostly because living in New Zealand it normally means your files have to go/come from the US or further away, most companies have no servers in NZ, so make the cloud kinda annoying here, + I don't want to pay a monthly price either.

    Yeah, the same feeling as you with CO, it's not perfect, but overall it's much better than the others I've used over the years.

    The only reason I really started this thread is to check if the slow image loading was normal or not, seems it is, so I can go back to waiting and hoping they'll optimize it one day.


    I think its normal, at least I notice it as well. And yes since CO is always really in developer mode, there will be a little lag. Could it improve with Metal2? Maybe. But I am so far impressed with CO. No program is perfect. What will make me stay long term with CO is how well they listen to the feedback from their customers.
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  • Jeff Talbert
    [quote="NNN636786757607694624" wrote:
    [quote="JTalbertPhoto" wrote:

    I tried what you said and the delay is still there even after been there before... My photos are on external source (on a MAC) - tried to delete the ImageCore but did not resolve the issue? I have seen this on CO11 as well, now I am on CO12 trial and was hoping to migrate from LR so I hope for a solution first...

    Edit: and why my account name is this silly NNN636786757607694624? On Phase One page I get the correct name and surname...


    I just change mine, you need to make the change outside of the forums. Log into your account, and from the PhaseOne site, click on edit profile, and from there, you can change your username. Took me a while to figure that out, but happy I am not a Long NNNNN@$N@#$N24324 any longer 😊

    Since CO is always in developer mode and I am assuming loading the full raw version of the file, there is a delay. LR has a similar delay. Not as noticeable as CO. Hopefully they can find ways to tweak it process, but the more I learn about CO the more I love it.

    The one thing I wish layers allowed, is to have one layer as color and the other as B/W. There might be a way, but have not found it yet Still learning layers and find the way CO handles them is great.
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  • MESTE
    I find the developing mode of CO quite good compared to LR, just that I do a lot of selection and browsing as such before editing so I was hoping CO to be at least as fast as LR on this matter. My LR catalog which I imported into CO12 has 370.000 images and to do a selection under CO is quite painful - maybe metal will solve this, who knows?!
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  • Jeff Talbert
    [quote="MESTE" wrote:
    I find the developing mode of CO quite good compared to LR, just that I do a lot of selection and browsing as such before editing so I was hoping CO to be at least as fast as LR on this matter. My LR catalog which I imported into CO12 has 370.000 images and to do a selection under CO is quite painful - maybe metal will solve this, who knows?!


    I have a total of about 100k photos I believe, and when I had thumbnail issues, I thought maybe it was the size of the catalog and how many photos.

    I since broke my one catalog down into a few smaller ones.

    2000-2005
    2006-2010
    2011-2015
    2016-Present.

    So far I am happy with it. I like how CO handles user catalogs, its much better than LR. In LR if you were in a catalog and wanted to delete a file, sorry charli, but in CO you can. And the structure of the user catalogs is better as well.

    I have a separate catalog for the photojournalism work I started to do this year. I have not done any shows since I have started using CO and can't wait for my next show to process it from start to finish in CO to see how it is and if it really is that much better than LR like I think it is right now.

    I may try to import my entire catalog as one who catalog again as well, not sure if I still have the catalog I started or if I trashed it.
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  • Ian Wilson
    [quote="MESTE" wrote:
    I find the developing mode of CO quite good compared to LR, just that I do a lot of selection and browsing as such before editing so I was hoping CO to be at least as fast as LR on this matter. My LR catalog which I imported into CO12 has 370.000 images and to do a selection under CO is quite painful - maybe metal will solve this, who knows?!

    Well, there are strategies to speed things up. If you want to do some editing, it is unlikely that you want to choose from the whole 370,000 images, isn't it? So if you go to the recent imports, you should find that it works much quicker as it is not selecting from 370,000.

    Ian
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  • MESTE
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    [quote="MESTE" wrote:
    I find the developing mode of CO quite good compared to LR, just that I do a lot of selection and browsing as such before editing so I was hoping CO to be at least as fast as LR on this matter. My LR catalog which I imported into CO12 has 370.000 images and to do a selection under CO is quite painful - maybe metal will solve this, who knows?!

    Well, there are strategies to speed things up. If you want to do some editing, it is unlikely that you want to choose from the whole 370,000 images, isn't it? So if you go to the recent imports, you should find that it works much quicker as it is not selecting from 370,000.

    Ian


    It makes sense what you say Ian, just that quite often I have to go back and browse through my database to look for specific images, for example to prepare a selection with a certain topic, so when I do that I need browsing to be fast and selection easy.
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  • NNN636913736069291247
    [quote="JTalbertPhoto" wrote:
    I have seen the same thing.

    If you navigate to a photo, let it render, wait 2 seconds and go to the next, render, wait 2 seconds and next, and do this a few times, and then navigate backwards, do you still see the same issue?

    If not, close CO and open again, and see if the photos that now render fast, still render fast as you navigate.

    If so, I have an idea of what's going on, as I am seeing the same issue and think it may be tied to thumbnails.


    I have this same issue, if I browse slowly through my photos, e.g. one every 2 seconds they display fast, however if I try to scan through several quickly it takes a long time to render the image I stop on and the CPU load is very high despite having a vega64 GPU. I can skip quickly back through the last few photos though. Did you resolve this? (Recompiling the openCL library makes no difference).
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