Capture One for Linux

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34 commentaires

  • Robert Whetton
    this is a user forum, best way to get a response is to visit their website and contact support
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  • Keith Reeder
    I've got my popcorn - carry on...
    -1
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  • Hans Nalte
    Hi Bobtographer,
    I already contacted the support but the only thing I got was
    > "we do not comment on development as per our policy. Stay tuned for future updates to Capture One [...]"
    which isn't really that helpful.
    So by posting here I a) wanted to explore a second channel, b) wanted to see whether this demand resonates with other users as well, and c) check whether others already have successfully tried practical alternatives such as running C1 in wine. So I still find this a not too bad place for posting this question. However, I agree that I probably should have phrased my point more precisely.

    Hi Keith,
    enjoy your popcorn. However, this post was not intended to just amuse the forum here.

    Many thanks!
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  • SFA
    The last time I used an editor that added Linux to its Win and Mac offerings and then identified a need to upgrade its underlying development environment it went out of business in about a year.

    One of the problems (looking at it from the outside - what was going in within the business was another matter) was that Linux users were always full of their own ideas about how to improve the product and which direction it should but never wanted to pay for a license since Linux applications for technically interested 'end users' were, traditionally, free.

    That and the complication in those days of many not always compatible variants of Linux.

    Later the whole product went to open source and, of course, many of the would be developers had other things to do and a few found themselves unable to allocate for the required time and effort for all sort of perfectly acceptable reasons and everything slowed to a crawl. Or slower.

    That's just the way things go it seems.
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  • Jim MSP
    Since you are looking for opinions and not promises (users can't do that) I would cast a strong vote against Phase One investing any resources in Linux. I'd agree with most of the arguments written by SFA above.
    Linux is free & open source, and will probably always remain that way. The applications will follow the same path.

    Right now and in the foreseeable future I would rather see Capture One add/develop a real robust and fully featured DAM & Catalog that was truly state of the art. Any resources put into a 3rd operating system will just take away from photography related development.

    Linux has its place, imo, but not with CO. When I had some older machines that had reached end of life with WIn 7, I converted them to Linux and to simple web browsing stations. They work just fine. But probably like a lot of Linux machines, the internal hardware is older and slower. CO would have to be modified to be able to run on the older and slower hardware, and I doubt if many users would be happy with it. One of the biggest complaints today from many photographers running "mature" packages like Lightroom is that they are slow on older hardware. I don't want CO to join that crowd.
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  • Hans Nalte
    Not sure I'm getting your point. I didn't ask for free software or open source nor for support of old hardware. I'm looking for a way to run a professional software which I paid for on Linux. And I would be willing to pay for the corresponding upgrade again.

    Just look at DaVinci Resolve from Blackmagicdesign as a proof that this is possible from both a technical as well as commercial perspective. Why shoulnd't PhaseOne be able to follow that same route?
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  • Jim MSP
    [quote="HansN" wrote:
    Not sure I'm getting your point. I didn't ask for free software or open source nor for support of old hardware. I'm looking for a way to run a professional software which I paid for on Linux. And I would be willing to pay for the corresponding upgrade again.

    Sorry - I was thinking about the market, not one user. The market of photographers that I am aware of is almost 50/50 Mac/Windows (forgetting smart phones at this point). I don't know anyone who uses Linux. I don't know anybody that even uses Gimp (they are out there), though I have tried it.
    To make the investment in converting to Linux, Phase One would have to be convinced that there is a untapped market for them that would justify the (most likely) substantial and ongoing investment. You can't just convert current users.

    [quote="HansN" wrote:
    ..........
    Just look at DaVinci Resolve from Blackmagicdesign as a proof that this is possible from both a technical as well as commercial perspective. Why shoulnd't PhaseOne be able to follow that same route?


    I don't use or know much about DaVinci. But when I look at their web site for Resolve I see " DaVinci Resolve runs on all major platforms so you can use it at home or in a post facility on a Mac, at a broadcast facility running Windows, or a VFX studio on Linux. " They see four user market segments. They see Linux as being used in a separate segment. Personally, I am not aware of or do I see a new user segment for Capture One on Linux.
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  • SFA
    [quote="HansN" wrote:
    Not sure I'm getting your point. I didn't ask for free software or open source nor for support of old hardware. I'm looking for a way to run a professional software which I paid for on Linux. And I would be willing to pay for the corresponding upgrade again.

    Just look at DaVinci Resolve from Blackmagicdesign as a proof that this is possible from both a technical as well as commercial perspective. Why shoulnd't PhaseOne be able to follow that same route?


    Technically it is possible of course.

    But is it viable commercially?

    I guess that depends on the customer mix (mostly the larger customers who may see some other benefits from abandoning Mac and Windows licences for Linux platforms that they may have (in technical terms) in house already.

    Can you be sure that the Resolve software for Linux is self supporting, commercially, outside the broader sale of the rest of their products? Hardware sales are likely to be a much larger part of the business than the software (I suspect - not yet tried to check).

    Such a consideration, especially if software on Linux might be used to leverage more hardware box sales, could be a key decision point.

    Adobe, so far as I am aware, manufacture no hardware and, again so far as I know, offer no end user applications that run on native Linux.

    As we all know, they have a large share of the market we are talking about. Given all of their resources, what stopped them developing a Linux version of all of their products?

    (I see Jim MSP has made similar observations and come to similar conclusions about the potential market mix.)



    Grant
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  • Keith Reeder
    There has been a very, very long-running thread on the Affinity Photo forum along the same lines - and despite the number of times it is pointed out that the numbers just don't add up in terms of the business case for a Linux Affinity Photo - The Faithful simply will not take a telling, instead providing innumerable vague (and utterly unevidenced, of course) assurances that - to quote the movie - "if you build it, they will come..."

    It comes up on the LightRoom forums regularly too. This is typical:

    https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2489255

    What's typically typical is the initial assertion by the thread-starter:
    Everyone knows that the Linux platform is one of the most used on the planet

    Which, when countered with actual facts pertinent to the discussion (ie desktop, not server, use):
    This made me curious, so I checked some statistics. Concentrating on the desktop computer market - excluding mobile devices - most of them agree on roughly 80% Windows, roughly 18% MacOS, and 1.5% Linux. What the last 0.5% do, they don't say.

    provoked the brilliant - and again typical - counter:
    I think otherwise

    Well that's Adobe told...

    And of course, you get this from one of the zealots who couldn't help but pile in, arrogant snot:
    rarely you will find knowledgeable person rooting for windows.

    So...
    [quote="HansN" wrote:
    Hi Keith,
    enjoy your popcorn. However, this post was not intended to just amuse the forum here.

    Oh, I'm going to enjoy it nevertheless, thanks...

    Something that might be pertinent is to reference AfterShot Pro - the only commercial cross-platform (Win/Mac/Linux) Raw converter/DAM I'm aware of.

    https://forum.corel.com/EN/viewforum.ph ... 21e2a8e14c

    It is an abysmal, dismally under-delivering abandonware car-crash, primarily because it has tried to be all things to all computers.

    Phase One would be well advised to learn from this lesson.
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  • Robert Whetton
    Adobe had a Unix version of PS back in the 90's.. it died.
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  • SFA
    I dislike any results of "surveys" where the responders are self selecting, especially if the numbers are giving close results for two products and ignoring all others and no comments are allowed.

    In my experience self selection tends to mean the majority do not bother to take part so the numbers are often interesing but not necessarily commercially indicative of reality.

    That said, if anyone is interested in looking at something I stumbled across a few weeks ago, go to YouTube, search for "First Man Photography" and open the Community section.

    There you will find a survey concerning which Post Processing application people prefer and a number of interesting comments to follow if one chooses to read them. You have to select your choice of preference before the figures will display.

    If you scroll down the Community page posts you will find another survey about which camera brands you use. Also quite interesting but the earliest answers will be up to a year old.

    There may be better sources of user numbers (if that is very meaningful).

    Claimed numbers of licenses issued might also be interesting, if there is a public source for the data, but discovering how many of the issued licenses are actively used may be more difficult.
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  • Ian Leslie
    How about a "survey" that uses the stats from 10 million page views from a tracking site that is running on 2 million sites world wide. Based on their data - which reflects some form of actual usage - web surfing the report:
    Windows
    72.59%
    OS X
    18.72%
    Unknown
    4.26%
    Chrome OS
    2.94%
    Linux
    1.48%

    http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-sha ... 901-201905

    Clearly Phase One would be more interested in the machines used by Photographers but with those numbers I don't see how Linux using Photogs can be a large segment at all.
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  • Keith Reeder
    Ah, but they're a very special, important 1.48%, Ian (just ask them... 🙄) - clearly the kind of people that software companies should bankrupt themselves trying to pander to...

    I should add that I'm not anti Linux on principle (I'm certainly far less anti Linux than many Penguin zealots are anti Windows...), I just recognise the difference between an OS as an essentially invisible means to an end, and as a hobby in its own right.

    I've got a couple of old laptops that I've turned over to Linux, just to see what the fuss is about; and I love my Chromebook, which I use for practically everything apart from image processing.

    Actually, given the figures, I think I'll start lobbying Phase One for a Chrome Capture One...
    -3
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  • Rhonald John Rose
    Recent Capture one Linux user. Linux users don't like to pay is a myth and it's unproven. Provided the software is good, they are willing to pay more than the windows users. The 2% linux is a myth and I believe it should be around 5% and not 2%. Microsoft admitted that the linux users are more than what's reported by many stats counters.

    Also these days cross platform development is not much of an overhead.

    I am currently trying to make the GPU passthrough work on my linux workstation so that I can use Capture One pro without leaving Linux.

    I currently use Darktable and while it's an excellent software, it lacks camera and lens profile for GFX-50S (with their zoom lenses, etc...)

    I would love to pay even double for Capture One Pro Fuji version on Linux.

    I guess, I will have to make GPU Passthrough work then.
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  • NNN636990894822181383
    The especially silly thing about the anti-Linux argument is that MacOS is a *nix derivative. Asking for a Linux compatible version of the application when there's already a Mac version of an application... I won't say it's "easy" or "nothing', but, it's not like we're asking them to take a Windows exclusive and rewrite it.

    Linux as a server OS is now used more than Windows in professional IT shops; Microsoft itself is investing heavily in Linux moving forward, at the same time divesting their business model from being reliant on desktop OS sales; and while yes there are various versions of Linux, someone with a bit of knowledge of the environment knows that there's really just 2-3 primary variants, and even then, settling on the Debian-based platform (serving all Debian/Ubuntu flavors) would likely serve the vast majority of Linux desktop users.

    It's a mistake to assume that creative professionals are choosing Windows or MacOS and that the applications are passive bystanders. The application compatibility with OSes drive the decision on what OS to use, not the other way around. Choosing between custom hardware but the Windows OS, or forced to use Apple hardware to have access to a *nix OS, is only good for Microsoft and Apple's bottom lines.

    The danger to P1 is less that they'd put a small dev team on creating a Linux fork to satisfy a small user base, and more that if they're the last app keeping a user on Windows or Mac, that user is likely to find an alternative to that one app than they are continue to make an exception for the one app.
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636990894822181383" wrote:
    The especially silly thing about the anti-Linux argument is that MacOS is a *nix derivative. Asking for a Linux compatible version of the application when there's already a Mac version of an application... I won't say it's "easy" or "nothing', but, it's not like we're asking them to take a Windows exclusive and rewrite it.

    Linux as a server OS is now used more than Windows in professional IT shops; Microsoft itself is investing heavily in Linux moving forward, at the same time divesting their business model from being reliant on desktop OS sales; and while yes there are various versions of Linux, someone with a bit of knowledge of the environment knows that there's really just 2-3 primary variants, and even then, settling on the Debian-based platform (serving all Debian/Ubuntu flavors) would likely serve the vast majority of Linux desktop users.

    It's a mistake to assume that creative professionals are choosing Windows or MacOS and that the applications are passive bystanders. The application compatibility with OSes drive the decision on what OS to use, not the other way around. Choosing between custom hardware but the Windows OS, or forced to use Apple hardware to have access to a *nix OS, is only good for Microsoft and Apple's bottom lines.

    The danger to P1 is less that they'd put a small dev team on creating a Linux fork to satisfy a small user base, and more that if they're the last app keeping a user on Windows or Mac, that user is likely to find an alternative to that one app than they are continue to make an exception for the one app.


    How is Linux support for certain types of hardware progressing? I'm thinking here especially GPUs and the choices that people might wish to make for them but there may be other considerations too.
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  • ex-ratt
    [quote="rhonaldjr" wrote:
    I am currently trying to make the GPU passthrough work on my linux workstation so that I can use Capture One pro without leaving Linux.


    Hi,

    does Capture One need a graphics card or is it just slow if it doesn't have access to one? I will buy a new PC next year and switch completely to Linux to get rid of Windows. I will try to run Capture One via Wine or VM. Can a VM use the graphics card if there is only one in the PC? Or does it need a dedicated one?

    In case you ever get it to work, please let us know. And drop some hints of knowledge in case anyone else wants to try it 😊 Thanks.
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  • davis dewey
    [quote="HansN" wrote:
    ...Capture One is the last software which prevents a full migration to Linux already now.


    My last upgrade from DOS was to WIN 3.1, but now I have used Linux (openSUSE) exclusively since 2006 and would not switch, but sometimes I have to use Windows to run specific programs (i.e. AutoCad, Scrivener). For that reason I install VirtualBox on all my Linux machines. I then install either Windows 7 or Windows 10 in the VM. I'ts a very easy process until you come to fine tuning things like USB, etc., but there are tons of posts on line that sort out the process very well, then it's a simple matter to use my Windows software when needed without even rebooting. I can even switch back and forth from Windows to Linux with a couple of mouse clicks. I can even cut/copy and paste back and forth.

    Nevertheless, until recently, I did all my photo processing (1500 +/- pix/week) in Linux with Darktable and really loved it Then I tried C1 12 in August and was blown away. Now I run C1 in VMs on two Linux computers, one with Win7 and one with Win10, and the performance on both is every bit as good as it was when I tested on a "bare metal" Windows installation. The results are more pleasing to me, and the workflow is much quicker than DT.
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  • orlcam88
    Hans,

    Unfortunately, it's a catch-22. Not enough people to use Linux because there's not enough software and software vendors don't want to waste time on an operating system because there's not enough people. I wanted to do the same a few years back and tried to convince people of Linux but once they ask, can you run "this" on it and the only answer is, there's a similar one you can use, I've lost them.
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  • Keith Reeder
    It's all about priorities.

    Do you want your software of choice running natively and efficiently on an OS that just gets out of the way?

    Or is OS zealotry and "OS as a hobby in its own right" more important to you?

    It's an easy choice for most, which is why Linux remains niche in terms of mainstream software support.
    -2
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  • Jamie Dumont
    [quote="NNN636990894822181383" wrote:
    ...
    It's a mistake to assume that creative professionals are choosing Windows or MacOS and that the applications are passive bystanders. The application compatibility with OSes drive the decision on what OS to use, not the other way around. Choosing between custom hardware but the Windows OS, or forced to use Apple hardware to have access to a *nix OS, is only good for Microsoft and Apple's bottom lines.

    The danger to P1 is less that they'd put a small dev team on creating a Linux fork to satisfy a small user base, and more that if they're the last app keeping a user on Windows or Mac, that user is likely to find an alternative to that one app than they are continue to make an exception for the one app.


    I actually registered just to respond to this (yes, I know, dredging up old threads and all...).

    This is exactly the situation I'm currently in. I'm a developer by trade, so comfortable with Linux. That said I use Mac and iOS for anything photo related. As per earlier comments, my Linux use is all headless on remote development environments and production servers, but I'm investigating changing that and using it as my desktop and sole OS.

    My Apple hardware is starting to show it's age, and despite the recent 16" MacBook Pro annoucement being a sign of hope, I'd rather not reward Apple for sticking their fingers in their ears for 4 years and denying theres any issues with the hardware (nevermind the decline of the OS both as a casual user and a dev).

    That leaves me building a desktop and deciding on either Windows 10 or Linux...

    Capture One is the only software that currently prevents me from going all-in on Linux, and it's likely to result in either getting comfortable with Darktable (I'd rather not) or resorting to Lightroom CC on my iPad (getting better every release!). Windows 10 leaves a lot to be desired and a foul taste in the mouth (lots of data gathering going on behind the scenes). I love using CP1, but not enough to either pay over the odds for my (recently-poorly-engineered) hardware (Apple) or compromise on my OS (Windows).

    Linux support for new hardware is pretty good. You can't expect "day of release" support for new GPU architectures like NAVI from AMD, but it arrived pretty shortly afterwards, same with Ryzen chips. Rolling release distributions help here, which unfortunately puts kernal-supported hardware at odds with the more popular distros (Debian/Ubuntu/etc) that often lag a fair way behind the most recent kernel version. Nvidia still don't play ball, but their drivers do work and they remain the choice for gaming on Linux - another segment that's growing.

    Between things like Linux's share of server installs (and proven track record there), it's advancements in gaming and GPU intensive work like 3D and CAD, Microsoft's recent and voracious appetite for all things Linux and it being the base of many other OS' like Chrome and Android (albeit heavily altered) — things are starting to converge around it.

    Sure, Windows isn't going away anytime soon and neither will macOS, but I think users are starting to understand the implications of handing their entire computing life over to a single company and are interested in Linux. It's now relatively approachable and with the appropriate software available, I think you'd see more people using it.

    Anyway, just my tuppence worth.
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  • TimJM
    In reply to the OP:
    It's possible to switch to Linux and run CaptureOne, if you install VirtualBox as a virtual machine. You can then install your chosen 64-bit Windows OS and run C1. Before getting a Mac, I ran C1 on Windows (7 & 10), prefer 7) for many years. However, I never succeeded in getting the graphics processor to work. Nevertheless C1 ran well, except that selecting all images in the catalogue led to a long delay. On the Mac it is almost instantaneous.

    Since getting the Mac, I find Auntie Apple too controlling, so I have returned to Linux Mint as my preferred OS, and use it for all my work except photo processing. Had I known then what I know now, I would probably not have bought the Mac.
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  • milo milo
    If my Mac fail someday, I'll buy a windows machine and I'll use it in dual boot option.
    Linux for web and office work and windows just to run Capture One. This is the only solution in my opinion.
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  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="NNN636814414886625974" wrote:
    Capture One is the only software that currently prevents me from going all-in on Linux, and it's likely to result in either getting comfortable with Darktable (I'd rather not) or resorting to Lightroom CC on my iPad (getting better every release!). Windows 10 leaves a lot to be desired and a foul taste in the mouth (lots of data gathering going on behind the scenes).

    Your personal choice of course - but really not Phase One's problem, nor their responsibility to fix.

    It's all about ownership of the "issue": Capture One's incompatibility with a given individual's OS of choice is an entirely self-inflicted injury.

    Oh, and as a Data Protection/privacy/security professional for many years (for a large UK govt. department - no alignment to Microsoft) until I took early retirement in April past, this anxiety about Win 10's data gathering is grossly overstated. Gathering non-personal metrics about your computer use is not a privacy or "Data Protection" issue by a country mile.

    A complete non-issue, in reality. Certainly not remotely enough to prevent me from using Windows 10. And believe me I'd be the first one out of the door if there were real privacy issues attached to its use.
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  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="NNN636814414886625974" wrote:
    things are starting to converge around it.

    Not at the desktop, they aren't.

    We've been hearing for years that Linux' ascendancy is "just around the corner" - and yet here we are, still waiting for the breakthrough.

    Maybe if it happens, you'll see a Linux Capture One.

    I understand the appeal of Linux - I've got a couple of Linux machines, and I thoroughly appreciate my Chromebook - but until Linux is no longer niche at the desktop, I suspect that Linux support will remain a pipe-dream, and I can understand why, from a commercial point of view for Phase One, why that might be.
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  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="NNN636917815739960863" wrote:
    This is the only solution in my opinion.

    It really isn't. There's no good reason not to use Windows for everything you want to do. An OS that just gets out of the way and lets you use the software you want to use, without becoming a job in its own right, has a lot to recommend it.

    Or VM Windows on a Linux box, as has been advocated already on this thread.
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  • NN635261941298725440UL
    For example, Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve, professional grade video editing software available on Linux, OSX, and Windows. And it's a much more advanced application, utilizing full GPU encoding, etc. I use DaVinci Resolve on Linux and it outperform Windows by 15%.

    It all comes down to PhaseOne's business strategies.
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  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="NN635261941298725440UL" wrote:
    For example, Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve, professional grade video editing software available on Linux, OSX, and Windows. And it's a much more advanced application, utilizing full GPU encoding, etc. I use DaVinci Resolve on Linux and it outperform Windows by 15%.

    The question you need to ask is:"how many people do you think you're speaking for?"

    No offence, but I'll bet that it's a very small subset of people who would also be Capture One Pro users.
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  • Rhonald John Rose
    Yep, I'd love to use Linux version too. I am a 10+ years linux user and I use Darktable + GIMP. Recently I did GPU Passthrough and then W10 as guest inside QEMU to run CP1 to compare against Darktable. I'd love if they have Linux version and I may switch to it.

    Bought Corel Aftershot Pro for linux and didn't like it. nevertheless, I have lifetime license now.
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  • FirstName LastName

    Please do Linux version.

    -1
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