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MBP 13' 2019 TOO SLOW with C1

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32 commentaires

  • photo by FA
    I suspect, which the usual answer from PO, your system is just not powerful enough. I am using a 4GHz iMac and it is laggy as well.
    My personal opinion is, CO is not fully optimized for current GPUs, a proof of that is, for quite few cases, my GPU is not used (you can see it via activity monitor). It just sits there doing nothing.
    PO recommended system is a dual matching GPU for good performance (dont know how you are going to get that in a laptop) and 4/5K screen at least multiply that, meaning 4 matching GPU's. I am yet to find such a computer.
    This all proves, the software is not optimized at any level.

    - Intel CPU with 4+ cores
    - 16+ GB of RAM
    - Solid State Disk (SSD)
    - Dual (matching) Graphics card from NVIDIA or AMD with 4GB+ RAM per card
    - Calibrated monitor with at least 1920x1200, 24-bit resolution at 96dpi
    Note: Due to the significant additional calculation overhead, systems using 4k/5k monitors will require additional resources in addition to the above recommended spec (both in GPU and CPU power). For a Professional experience we recommend at least doubling the specification above for these configurations.
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  • Emile Gregoire
    I suspect the problem is you don't have a dedicated GPU from e.g. AMD or nVidia, but are solely using an integrated one from Intel. They're good for many things but aren't really powerful like the dedicated ones.

    I'm using a 2017 15" MBP with a 4Gb Radeon Pro GPU and C1 zips along really nicely with regards to slider manipulation and resulting rendering, which is almost instantaneous. I had the same zippy experience with my previous 2010 MBP. C1 definitely does use the Radeon Pro GPU on my machine so as far as my experience goes, the software is well optimised - as long as you don't count the database design.

    Your RAM and SDD obviously aren't the problem. I'd venture to say that the clock speed could be a culprit too, but since fatihayoglu describes the same problem with a 4 Ghz iMac, I won't place my bets on it.

    I'm sorry I can't help you any further with tweaks but I suggest you contact support and see what they have to say.
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  • photo by FA
    My issue is more about it is a 5K mac and CO team keep saying my system is not enough, same story for the last 4 years.
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  • Emile Gregoire
    [quote="fatihayoglu" wrote:
    My issue is more about it is a 5K mac and CO team keep saying my system is not enough, same story for the last 4 years.


    I can imagine that's more than frustrating...
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  • Duncan Andison
    [quote="Emile" wrote:
    I suspect the problem is you don't have a dedicated GPU from e.g. AMD or nVidia, but are solely using an integrated one from Intel. They're good for many things but aren't really powerful like the dedicated ones.

    I'm using a 2017 15" MBP with a 4Gb Radeon Pro GPU and C1 zips along really nicely with regards to slider manipulation and resulting rendering, which is almost instantaneous. I had the same zippy experience with my previous 2010 MBP. C1 definitely does use the Radeon Pro GPU on my machine so as far as my experience goes, the software is well optimised - as long as you don't count the database design.

    Your RAM and SDD obviously aren't the problem. I'd venture to say that the clock speed could be a culprit too, but since fatihayoglu describes the same problem with a 4 Ghz iMac, I won't place my bets on it.

    I'm sorry I can't help you any further with tweaks but I suggest you contact support and see what they have to say.


    I suspect it's more to do with the clock speed/Processor.

    I currently use a 2018 13inch MacBook Pro for when I'm out and about. 8gb Ram, 2.7 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7, Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 1536 MB and I have no problems at all with C1 Pro even with the 42mp Sony A7riii files.
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  • ericnepean
    I'm starting to tend toward the idea that C1 speed depends on processor and possibly RAM

    I'm using a late 2015 27" iMac with 4GHz i7, 24GB RAM, 1TB Fusion drive and AMD Radeon R9 M390 GPU with 2GB.

    Capture One's speed is OK on this machine.

    I see that the M390 GPU is never heavily loaded but he CPU is, which indicates that Capture One is using the CPU for processing.

    I previously had a late 2009 27" iMac with 2.7GHz i5, 16MB of RAM and 1 TB spinning drive. Capture One was much slower on this machine; this could have been the drive but I suspect it had more to do with the processor.
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  • NNN637084192630642290
    I can't believe the new model MBP 2019 could work so slow with C1. Not in export - with this everything OK, but with preview of adjustments... A lot of people can render 4k video on 13" MBP without any issues, a lot of people processing RAW with C1 on old and not so powerful computers and everything ok. Don't really know what to do... Once again - Lightroom works really good with 24MP (Nikon D750) Raws, with smart previews and without, with large catalogs, etc, Photoshop Camera Raw - OK, Batch - ok, any huge actions, powerful filters - easy... but c1 - something wrong
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  • NNN637084192630642290
    [quote="fatihayoglu" wrote:
    My issue is more about it is a 5K mac and CO team keep saying my system is not enough, same story for the last 4 years.

    And you haven't solve this problem yet? Its really strange... These machines can without any problems process raw video and etc. Everyone knows such computers are used by video creators, but it can't work with images...
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  • photo by FA
    [quote="NNN637084192630642290" wrote:
    [quote="fatihayoglu" wrote:
    My issue is more about it is a 5K mac and CO team keep saying my system is not enough, same story for the last 4 years.

    And you haven't solve this problem yet? Its really strange... These machines can without any problems process raw video and etc. Everyone knows such computers are used by video creators, but it can't work with images...


    Sadly haven't and can't solve it. my iMac is top spec 4GHz with 40GB Ram, SSD and 395X GPU. Since 4 years, I am filling reports as saying the performance is not good. PO keeps saying that my computer is not powerful enough. I keep saying video people are using the very exact machine for FCPX without any issue yet for still image editing the system is not enough. Recently I have realized as recommended setting PO suggest dual matching GPU. As far as I am aware of, there isn't a laptop with dual GPU. For 4K/5K screens they suggest even higher specs.

    Do you know what that means? Almost all of the Apple Hardware is not recommended by PhaseOne to use CaptureOne (none of them have dual matching GPUs). Only MacPro's are recommended, I wonder how many people have those machines.

    Or, the devil in me says, CO software is just not optimized to use system resources efficiently. An example of this is, CO still does not support Metal and stubbornly sticking to OpenCL which is not updated by Apple anymore. There you go 😊

    EDIT: I have also found CO still uses OpenCL 1.2, that is from 2011, almost 8 years old of version. Current version is 2.2 published 3 months ago 😊
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  • Michael Zeldin
    [quote="NNN637084192630642290" wrote:
    Hello guys.
    I have big trouble with my raw processing.
    I have new MacBook Pro 2019, 13 inch model with 1.4Ghz processor, iris graphics 645, 16GB ram and 500GB SSD and MacOS X Catalina.
    I installed the latest version of Capture one. And its very very laggy. I couldn't work with it.
    It works like slide-show with any instrument - exposure, contact, crop, etc - it takes about 1-2 secs to appear changes.
    I've tried reinstall app, clear catalog, run new empty catalog, session, remove proxies, increase and decrease preview quality, on and off hardware acceleration - there is no any improvements of processing, interface and workflow still laggy.
    Also when I increase exposure for example - my laptop heating quickly and fan going very loud.
    But with rendering everything OK - rendering is fast (24Mp raw to 4000 long edge jpeg). Lightroom works very good (with and without smart previews)....
    Can someone help me with this problem? I Haven't found any answers, but found same problems with powerful computers.
    May be its problem with OpenCL/GL or API Metal, OS Catalina or what?


    The fact that you are using an operating system,Catalina, which has yet to be announced as compatible with current version(s) of Capture One Pro, may be an additional source of difficulty.
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  • Ian Wilson
    The fact that you are using an operating system,Catalina, which has yet to be announced as compatible with current version(s) of Capture One Pro, may be an additional source of difficulty.

    In fact it has been announced as being supported by Capture One 12.1.4.

    Ian
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  • Michael Zeldin
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    The fact that you are using an operating system,Catalina, which has yet to be announced as compatible with current version(s) of Capture One Pro, may be an additional source of difficulty.

    In fact it has been announced as being supported by Capture One 12.1.4.

    Ian


    Ian: Thanks! I have just downloaded and installed 12.1.4 onto my pristine but aging (?) iMac where Mac OS 10.15.1 was recently also was placed after a complete erase.

    My apologies to the primary poster and Ian for missing the update to 12.1.4. and for intruding without sufficient information.
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  • NNN637084192630642290
    But I use up to date software) Latest version of c1 and it work the same as any other version
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  • Ian Wilson
    So you might try asking the Support team for advice.

    Ian
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  • Enric Fradera Calonge
    I have a 2013 iMac with Catalina, SSD and 16GB ram... i5 2,4ghz and no dedicated graphics card, only integrated Intel Iris... and C1 works fine, sometimes laggy and turns slower on layer masks workflow, but general performance it's OK.
    I'm afraid anyway that new C1 20 is very demanding and my mac becomes unusable 😕
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  • ericnepean
    [quote="efradera" wrote:
    I have a 2013 iMac with Catalina, SSD and 16GB ram... i5 2,4ghz and no dedicated graphics card, only integrated Intel Iris... and C1 works fine, sometimes laggy and turns slower on layer masks workflow, but general performance it's OK.
    I'm afraid anyway that new C1 20 is very demanding and my mac becomes unusable 😕
    You will have chance to download a trial and see.
    Additionally you could sign up for Beta testing and provide back tot he developers some comments about how it runs on your machine.
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  • Bryce Steiner
    After reading this thread I realize I'm not alone. I have the same issue. I have a brand new 2019 15" MPB, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD, VEGA 20 dedicated graphics and cropping is terrible. 2 second lag very every picture.

    I go back to CaptureOne 11 and it works fine so something is not right in 12.

    I do thing part of the problem is that C1 does not use Metal and it would benefit tremendously if they did.

    *I'm running Mojave 10.14.6
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  • SFA
    [quote="BryceSteiner" wrote:
    After reading this thread I realize I'm not alone. I have the same issue. I have a brand new 2019 15" MPB, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD, VEGA 20 dedicated graphics and cropping is terrible. 2 second lag very every picture.

    I go back to CaptureOne 11 and it works fine so something is not right in 12.

    I do thing part of the problem is that C1 does not use Metal and it would benefit tremendously if they did.

    *I'm running Mojave 10.14.6


    Check whether the new installation has successfully refreshed the kernel build for the GPU.

    You should be able to find a log file that reports specifically about that operation.

    And/Or create a Support Case with the C1 Support Team and send them the files they will request and let them advise you from there.


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Picman
    MBP 15 inch 2017, 2,9 GHz Intel Core i7, Intel HD Graphics 630 1536 MB, memory 16 GB 2133 MHz works like a charm. No problems.
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  • Abbott Schindler
    A couple of thoughts:
    - a 1.4 GHz i5 processor is pretty slow for C1. All of my machines have at least 2.4 GHz processors and run fine.
    - The integrated graphics processor is just OK.
    - You've got enough RAM and SSD.
    - As previously pointed out, though, I don't think C1's using the dedicated GPUs on my MBPs much in Mojave or later (it really used it a lot in Sierra).

    You might install something like MenuMeters (free) or iStat Menus (shareware) to monitor the machine's hardware via menu bar indicators.That's how I know that the GPU hasn't been used since Apple started "encouraging" developers to use Metal.

    In my 2012 MBPs, the GPU was well utilized by C1 12 and earlier. Since I upgraded to Mojave, the GPU isn't being used very much. Now I see the same with my 2019 8-core i9 with a Pro Vega 20 and 32 GB of RAM. Other apps use the GPU quite a bit (Affinity Photo, Aperture and iMovie, for example), so there's something going on (or not going on) with C1. Also, when I force the GPU (using gfxCardStatus or the Energy pref pane), C1 runs much faster and iStat shows both the GPU and CPU cores working as they did in Sierra. I've provided a lot of data to Phase One Support and the answer is always that the logs show that all's are working properly, so nothing to worry about. At this point, I make myself happy by realizing that when left to its own on the MBP, C1 uses less power and thus lets my MBP run longer on battery. When I'm plugged into AC, I force the GPU and things run 30% or more faster.

    When I look at the processor cores, C1's using all of them heavily in all of my machines. Hence, more GHz (per-core x number of cores) is better for C1 and you should scale your performance expectations with your computer's fairly limited hardware. Unless you want to buy a new MBP, I think you'll have to be content with what you're getting.

    I really recommend using MenuMeters or iStat to monitor your machine's resource utilization. That can be helpful for understanding performance and also for sizing your next machine.
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  • photo by FA
    CO does not utilize GPU properly, period. This start to happen when Apple has started to push Metal over OPenCL.
    CO uses an OpenCL version 1.2, the current version is 2.2. So you can imagine what’s going on.
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  • Robert Farhi
    [quote="fatihayoglu" wrote:
    CO does not utilize GPU properly, period. This start to happen when Apple has started to push Metal over OPenCL.
    CO uses an OpenCL version 1.2, the current version is 2.2. So you can imagine what’s going on.


    I agree, Capture One should go forward and use Metal rather than OpenCL (I didn't know it was not the latest version !!).
    That said, OpenCL works quite well on my MBP late 2013 when using Capture One v12.
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  • Abbott Schindler
    What OS version are you using? I've got a 2012 MPB as well as the 2019. When the 2012 was running Sierra, C1 12 used the GPU nicely. After upgrading the 2012 to Mojave, C1 12 use of the GPU went to almost nothing unless I use gfxCardStatus to force the GPU. Forcing the GPU resulted in lots of operations going 30% or more faster. I've shared this data with Support, but so far have been told that "logs indicate that C1's using the GPU correctly". Frustrating.

    I also have a 2012 MP. When that machine used Sierra, C1 12 called the GPU regularly. Since upgrading that machine to High Sierra (preparation for the next version of C1), minimal CPU usage.

    All of this plus posts I've seen in this and other forums leads me to believe that C1 isn't calling the GPU properly (for whatever reason; I'm not a GPU programmer).
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  • Simon Knight
    Hi,

    This describes some "clutching at straws" that I have been spending my time doing:

    I'm using a late 2013 MacBookPro 2.3Ghz Quad Core i7 and image editing with C1 is o.k. At the moment I am re-importing my image collection (88191 files) and despite the creation of previews the %GPU is fixed on zero.

    Initially I when I started using C1, earlier this year, I was using High Sierra and C1 was not able to import thousands of images without crashing. After many fault finding sessions with Apple I took the nuclear option and erased my hard drive and reinstalled High Sierra from scratch. Note that this is a great way of proving how well your back-up workflow has worked (gulp).

    Since this clean install I have updated to Catalina and so far C1 and other apps are running smoothly. The suspicion is that Apple's Auto Updater (or whatever its called) copies some parts of older OS's that caused High Sierra problems (I realise this is all very vague). One other symptom was that Spotlight stopped searching my main hard drive and could not be persuaded to complete a reindex. In my case there is a chance that some OS helper files dated back to OS 9 and were causing unspecified problems. Talking of OS 9, just prior to the re-install Apple Help had me checking on the extensions being used by the OS - (So OS X has gone full circle, older readers may remember extension conflicts were a staple of pre OS X macs.

    So you might want to try a totally clean install of the OS - a very windows solution. If you do I suggest that you make a backup of your home folder and note all your internet settings on paper (i didn't).

    best wishes

    Simon
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  • Abbott Schindler
    It's a good thought, Simon. However, my 2019 MBP came with Mojave installed, so it really was a fresh install. I also have a 2012 MBP that was upgraded to Mojave and a third machine (Mac Pro) that was upgraded from Sierra to High Sierra. All show the same GPU behavior.

    At the same time, Affinity Photo, iMovie, Pixelmator, "old" Aperture, and a number of other apps still show significant GPU usage on the same three machines.

    C1 runs "smoothly" on all of the machines; it just runs much faster when I force the GPU either by turning off Automatic Graphics Switching in the Energy Saver pref pane, or by using gfxCardStatus.

    Hopefully this gets fixed in the forthcoming update.
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  • NNN637084192630642290
    Yesterday I tried out capture one on my friend’s MBP base model 13†2018 with 2,4Ghz processor and 8Gb ram, OS Sierra. And everything works just perfect. Fans even didn’t turn on.... capture one seems very easy process for this machine. But not for MBP 2019
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  • Abbott Schindler
    Read my earlier post above. I'd bet that what you're seeing is more related to the older machine running Sierra and the new machine running Mojave or Catalina. I found that C1 called the GPU in my 2012 MBP under Sierra and doesn't since I upgraded that machine to Mojave. I've also got a 2019 configured like yours and C1 12 doesn't call the GPU.

    You could try as I suggested above to force C1 to use the GPU. Hopefully this gets fixed in C1 20, which I assume will be released relatively soon if history is a guide.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Nature Isme" wrote:
    Read my earlier post above. I'd bet that what you're seeing is more related to the older machine running Sierra and the new machine running Mojave or Catalina. I found that C1 called the GPU in my 2012 MBP under Sierra and doesn't since I upgraded that machine to Mojave. I've also got a 2019 configured like yours and C1 12 doesn't call the GPU.

    You could try as I suggested above to force C1 to use the GPU. Hopefully this gets fixed in C1 20, which I assume will be released relatively soon if history is a guide.


    Take a look at the Log files that report what happened when C1 checks for GPUs and then attempts to build kernels for whatever it finds.

    On my Windows system C1 seems, since recent times, to assess the Intel bilt in GPU type capability.

    I'm not sure why but building the kernel for it (which earlier versions did not even try to do since there was no benefit), fails with some sort of data/disk access problem and so the process stops before the real GPU is properly assessed and run. Forcing a re-run builds the kernel for the usable GPU and then all is good.


    Grant
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  • Ian Jukes
    I have a 2014 13" MBP and it seems to run pretty well. Maybe look at the way you work? Do you have a large catalogue?

    I use both sessions and a main catalogue. I create a session on the MBP SSD for each month. This gives two benefits, one, editing is fast and, two, I feel as though I'm more focused on the images, as I like to complete the month with properly organised images.

    Before my images go into Capture One Pro 12, I run them through Photo Mechanic 6, it's much better and faster at culling, labelling and applying metadata. The smart part is the ingested images (Import from Photo Mechanic 6) go straight into the Capture folder of my monthly session. I don't bother using subfolders for different shoots. I will use albums and/or the filters afterwards. I'm very careful to add metadata properly and consistently. Doing this makes finding images easy later.

    I never bother tagging or labelling rejects, I only give a simple green label to the keepers, then on a second pass, I will add a star to those I want to edit. Then I delete the rejected images. You have to be ruthless, don't clutter up your machine with trash 😊. I also apply GPS data at this point (Geotag Photos Pro 2, it's awesome).

    Only once everything is organised do I open up Capture One Pro 12. I just filter by 1 star and I can easily see what I want to edit.

    At the end of the month, I will sit down and review the images and refine them. Once happy, I move the session to its final resting place (external HD). Then I import the session into my main catalogue. Note, once the session is imported never use the session again, only use the catalogue.

    Sorry for the lengthy post but I wanted to explain what works for me. I hope it helps.
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  • Robert Farhi
    Nice way to proceed !!
    A question : once you import your session into the catalogue, can you edit the related images from the catalogue, if, by chance, you wanted to go back to them ?
    Thanks,
    Robert
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