Dear PhaseOne,

Commentaires

49 commentaires

  • BPA
    Me too. With VAT it is two times the fee i pay on PS & LR. I like C1. It is faster than LR. The color tools are great. But I am not a pro and use it at school (doing media stuff with my students, shooting school events). So it is too expensive to me. The new competitors (ON1, Luminar) are still much too slow. They offer nice effects but are no real RAW-converters. After Shot is not bad but not very stable. DxO also got its strengths but also has some limitations.
    So, hello Adobe. Again.
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  • VAD.
    In August this year I paid 301€ and now for upgrade another 142€ ? In the meantime I purchased one Style pack. I'm amateur, the software don't earn money for me; maybe you think that the price is adeqate for professionals, especially those using PhaseOne cameras, but not so for me and as I see also for others.
    Why do you not release a lighter and cheaper version, for example without local adjustments? Definitevely this would help common peoples like me to live with Capture One upgrades and keeping your company to be competitive against the plethora of raw software newcomers.

    I'm dont plan to cancel my account, but the frequent macOS upgrades will bring Capture One 10 to stop working and my investement of 360€ is blown in the wind.

    Cheers
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  • adrianchapman
    I have to say that I was also very disappointed by this massive price hike. I had, rather naively I suppose, hoped that given some of the discontent expressed about pricing in these forums in recent years that there might even be a modest price reduction for the upgrades.

    I know it may not be necessary for any individual to upgrade every year but I don't think I can any longer justify my investment in Capture One so, with considerable regret, I will be investigating the numerous alternatives. While I accept that Capture One is sold very much as "Pro" software, and it does work some amazing magic on my pictures, the price difference between Capture One and alternative software packages is too much for me now and yes, I do understand the argument about the money we spend on cameras and lenses compared to the price of Capture One
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  • Emile Gregoire
    While I can understand your frustration, generally speaking, there are a few points to consider:

    1. v10.2 is still a very capable and fast RAW converter and IMHO beats LR in most ways.

    2. C1Pro has been on a yearly schedule of upgrading around this time for the past two years and there was no reason to believe otherwise this year; as a loyal C1 customer I'm happy with the advent of v11. You can always choose to skip a version.

    3. The price hike is $20 over the previous price level. Are you really considering abandoning C1 and your $300+ investment over $20? To me that looks like an emotional reaction, not a rational one.

    4. Everything gets more expensive over time. Phase One has had an upgrade price of $99 for quite a number of years. It's only logical the price will go up at one point. Adobe won't keep the price level of their photography package at $9.99 forever either and might even change it as of January 1. So what do you do then, switch back again?

    I'd seriously look at this rationally. If you're unwilling to pay for an upgrade, stick with v10. Chances are good there's still a lot to learn and it will suffice for yet another year easily, at which point you could upgrade to v12. If you want to upgrade now, yes, it's another $119. Going back to Adobe will set you back the same amount for the coming 12 months. It's a free world, mostly, so up to you. I'd stay.
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  • NN636271034717228928UL
    [quote="Emile1" wrote:
    While I can understand your frustration, generally speaking, there are a few points to consider:

    1. v10.2 is still a very capable and fast RAW converter and IMHO beats LR in most ways.

    2. C1Pro has been on a yearly schedule of upgrading around this time for the past two years and there was no reason to believe otherwise this year; as a loyal C1 customer I'm happy with the advent of v11. You can always choose to skip a version.

    3. The price hike is $20 over the previous price level. Are you really considering abandoning C1 and your $300+ investment over $20? To me that looks like an emotional reaction, not a rational one.

    4. Everything gets more expensive over time. Phase One has had an upgrade price of $99 for quite a number of years. It's only logical the price will go up at one point. Adobe won't keep the price level of their photography package at $9.99 forever either and might even change it as of January 1. So what do you do then, switch back again?

    I'd seriously look at this rationally. If you're unwilling to pay for an upgrade, stick with v10. Chances are good there's still a lot to learn and it will suffice for yet another year easily, at which point you could upgrade to v12. If you want to upgrade now, yes, it's another $119. Going back to Adobe will set you back the same amount for the coming 12 months. It's a free world, mostly, so up to you. I'd stay.


    Well yes, it is not the 20 € per se but the - let me say - timing and arrogance of how PO does this. With this continuing, PO is a very expensive application to maintain (plus uncertainties) so it is better to control the risk. Plus, I do not want to support PO's philosophy.

    Frankly I believe PO is gambling,
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  • VAD.
    [quote="Emile1" wrote:
    While I can understand your frustration, generally speaking, there are a few points to consider:

    1. v10.2 is still a very capable and fast RAW converter and IMHO beats LR in most ways.

    2. C1Pro has been on a yearly schedule of upgrading around this time for the past two years and there was no reason to believe otherwise this year; as a loyal C1 customer I'm happy with the advent of v11. You can always choose to skip a version.

    3. The price hike is $20 over the previous price level. Are you really considering abandoning C1 and your $300+ investment over $20? To me that looks like an emotional reaction, not a rational one.

    4. Everything gets more expensive over time. Phase One has had an upgrade price of $99 for quite a number of years. It's only logical the price will go up at one point. Adobe won't keep the price level of their photography package at $9.99 forever either and might even change it as of January 1. So what do you do then, switch back again?

    I'd seriously look at this rationally. If you're unwilling to pay for an upgrade, stick with v10. Chances are good there's still a lot to learn and it will suffice for yet another year easily, at which point you could upgrade to v12. If you want to upgrade now, yes, it's another $119. Going back to Adobe will set you back the same amount for the coming 12 months. It's a free world, mostly, so up to you. I'd stay.


    Are you paid by PhaseOne?
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  • Emile Gregoire
    Yeah, I knew that was coming and no I am not. As I said, it's a free world 😊
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  • BPA
    [quote="Emile1" wrote:
    While I can understand your frustration, generally speaking, there are a few points to consider:

    1. v10.2 is still a very capable and fast RAW converter and IMHO beats LR in most ways.

    2. C1Pro has been on a yearly schedule of upgrading around this time for the past two years and there was no reason to believe otherwise this year; as a loyal C1 customer I'm happy with the advent of v11. You can always choose to skip a version.

    3. The price hike is $20 over the previous price level. Are you really considering abandoning C1 and your $300+ investment over $20? To me that looks like an emotional reaction, not a rational one.

    4. Everything gets more expensive over time. Phase One has had an upgrade price of $99 for quite a number of years. It's only logical the price will go up at one point. Adobe won't keep the price level of their photography package at $9.99 forever either and might even change it as of January 1. So what do you do then, switch back again?

    I'd seriously look at this rationally. If you're unwilling to pay for an upgrade, stick with v10. Chances are good there's still a lot to learn and it will suffice for yet another year easily, at which point you could upgrade to v12. If you want to upgrade now, yes, it's another $119. Going back to Adobe will set you back the same amount for the coming 12 months. It's a free world, mostly, so up to you. I'd stay.


    You are right. But what I don’t understand ist: I am paying 20€+4€ taxes per month. That is 288€ per year. So the subscription makes no sense at all. I buy for about 330€ and upgrade one year later for 140€ (with VAT). That’s 470€ in 2 years. While the subscription is 570€ in two years. And if I quit, I don’t own any license. I think, the subscription should be cheaper than buying the software (because you don’t own the software). Even if I take the prepaid version, this is getting more expensive in the third year, than buying and updating two times.
    As I said, I like C1 and I was willing to continue my subscription for about the 14 bucks i pay now. But 24 is irrational for somebody doing this just for fun. I also would like to see a “personal†version (maybe without tethering, limiting the CPU cores on rendering). So, we will see.
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  • Emile Gregoire
    [quote="BPA" wrote:
    You are right. But what I don’t understand ist: I am paying 20€+4€ taxes per month. That is 288€ per year. So the subscription makes no sense at all. I buy for about 330€ and upgrade one year later for 140€ (with VAT). That’s 470€ in 2 years. While the subscription is 570€ in two years. And if I quit, I don’t own any license. I think, the subscription should be cheaper than buying the software (because you don’t own the software). Even if I take the prepaid version, this is getting more expensive in the third year, than buying and updating two times.
    As I said, I like C1 and I was willing to continue my subscription for about the 14 bucks i pay now. But 24 is irrational for somebody doing this just for fun. I also would like to see a “personal†version (maybe without tethering, limiting the CPU cores on rendering). So, we will see.


    I wasn't reacting specifically to you -or anyone for that matter- but more generally to the idea of abandoning C1 because of a $20/€20 price-hike for the upgrade ($99->$119). That said, I can't find the rationale behind the subscription price either. It's only viable as an extended trial, otherwise purchasing is cheaper.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Emile1" wrote:
    [quote="BPA" wrote:
    You are right. But what I don’t understand ist: I am paying 20€+4€ taxes per month. That is 288€ per year. So the subscription makes no sense at all. I buy for about 330€ and upgrade one year later for 140€ (with VAT). That’s 470€ in 2 years. While the subscription is 570€ in two years. And if I quit, I don’t own any license. I think, the subscription should be cheaper than buying the software (because you don’t own the software). Even if I take the prepaid version, this is getting more expensive in the third year, than buying and updating two times.
    As I said, I like C1 and I was willing to continue my subscription for about the 14 bucks i pay now. But 24 is irrational for somebody doing this just for fun. I also would like to see a “personal†version (maybe without tethering, limiting the CPU cores on rendering). So, we will see.


    I wasn't reacting specifically to you -or anyone for that matter- but more generally to the idea of abandoning C1 because of a $20/€20 price-hike for the upgrade ($99->$119). That said, I can't find the rationale behind the subscription price either. It's only viable as an extended trial, otherwise purchasing is cheaper.


    The subscription pricing offering has been discussed before and is really offered for people who have a short term need, have variable requirements over a period (i.e. may need to add or remove licences frequently) or simply want to spread cash flow (and would otherwise be paying for the money used to buy a licence using credit.)

    I.e. it is intended to satisfy business use requirements mainly.

    Other (usually large) software operations seem to think that subscription should be a way of life for everyone - along with the "cloud" model. Who knows if they are right?

    Many people rent their mobile phones and as a reward are offered services that they are happy to pay for but rarely can use to the full extent that is offered. Few seem to object.

    I guess it is mostly a question of perspective. (No pun intended.)


    Grant
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  • Picman
    The same here. On the 9th of October I purchased an upgrade to COv10 for 119 Euros, and now 7 weeks later I should pay another 149 Euros to upgrade to version 11. Where is the honesty in that!!
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  • Chad Dahlquist
    I sub to adobe
    I get PS a must have still and LR a option
    for basically less than just a raw converter ?

    if anything they should put the sub at say $5 - $7.50 and I would think many would join
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  • SFA
    [quote="Chad Dahlquist" wrote:
    I sub to adobe
    I get PS a must have still and LR a option
    for basically less than just a raw converter ?

    if anything they should put the sub at say $5 - $7.50 and I would think many would join


    Until there was nothing to join?
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  • VAD.
    [quote="Emile1" wrote:

    As I said, it's a free world 😊


    Free of what?
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  • Emile Gregoire
    [quote="VAD." wrote:
    [quote="Emile1" wrote:

    As I said, it's a free world 😊


    Free of what?


    Free to hold different opinions. Free to question my integrity.

    A slimmed-down version of C1 like you suggested would actually be a good idea in my opinion. They had that in the past, with an SE edition I believe.

    Look, I'm not fond of price hikes either, but am at least willing to see the rationale behind it instead of perceiving it as a personal attack by Phase One. So shoot me. A lot of folks are behaving highly emotional about this while nobody forced them to do anything and Phase One is behaving like any other company. Wherever they'd put the cut-off point (30 days, 45, 60) there'd always be somebody screaming bloody murder.

    Anyway, I'm getting out of this discussion. I was merely suggesting people think their actions through before taking emotional actions, that's all. Do with that as you please - it's a free etc.
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  • VAD.
    [quote="Emile1" wrote:
    [quote="VAD." wrote:
    [quote="Emile1" wrote:

    As I said, it's a free world 😊


    Free of what?


    Free to hold different opinions. Free to question my integrity.

    A slimmed-down version of C1 like you suggested would actually be a good idea in my opinion. They had that in the past, with an SE edition I believe.

    Look, I'm not fond of price hikes either, but am at least willing to see the rationale behind it instead of perceiving it as a personal attack by Phase One. So shoot me. A lot of folks are behaving highly emotional about this while nobody forced them to do anything and Phase One is behaving like any other company. Wherever they'd put the cut-off point (30 days, 45, 60) there'd always be somebody screaming bloody murder.

    Anyway, I'm getting out of this discussion. I was merely suggesting people think their actions through before taking emotional actions, that's all. Do with that as you please - it's a free etc.


    I'm not questioning your integrity.

    I'm doing math only. As from August I paid 360€ to PhaseOne, another 60€ to RNI for a style pack that apparently wont work with v11 and now PhaseOne is requesting another 140€. Total of 560€ in 4 month!

    Still free to hold different opinions?
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  • John Doe
    You're still free to not update.
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  • VAD.
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    You're still free to not update.


    Thank you for sugestion, certainly I wont upgrade.

    BTW: Marry Christmas PhaseOne!
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  • Pavel Derka
    This upgrade, or non-upgrade really, is it for me. After using C1 since 2007 I'm going to continue to use v10 and if I get to a point where OS upgrades make it so that v10 doesn't work anymore - that's it for me.

    Phase one seems to feel that when they want money, the call it a new version. So this is a bit faster, they say - big deal.

    This is an extortion upgrade and if the past is any indicator it will take half a year before the bugs are worked out and then we will be ready for a new even more pricey upgrade just around the corner, I suspect. Maybe we will get newer buttons or a new progress indicator bar to justify calling the next tiny detail a major release.

    This is 10.3 but Phase one wants to shear more money from it's sheep so they call it 11 and raise the upgrade price. Meanwhile open source software is getting better and better for absolutely free. This false upgrade, money grab stunt is disgusting.

    This brings to mind that old 80's song by that weird group, Twisted Sister:
    Oh we're not gonna take it
    No, we ain't gonna take it
    Oh we're not gonna take it anymore

    Ex faith-full customer. Done.
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  • Kurisu87
    I bought an iPhone 7s 8 months ago. Now there is an iPhone 8 and 10. Dear Apple, can I have a new one?

    Answer? No. why should phase one. They give an upgrade to those who bought 10, 30 days before the update. This is reasonable as There has to be a cut off right? The same used to happen with photoshop before they went to their subscription model.

    What I’m saying is, don’t feel hard done by. It’s life.
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  • Peter Svancar
    I moved on 30-oct from Adobe because I feel cheated only to find out, PhaseOne cheated me even more by charging me 147 EUR for update 31 days after my purchase.

    I understand that there must be some borders, but come-on, 1 day? No compensation? full price?
    I have no problem to pay devs for annual updates...but with phase one pricing and customer policy, I am going to skip updates for sure.

    strange how total excitement of product can turn into total opposite way in few hours
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  • NN636271034717228928UL
    [quote="NNN636454353744480612" wrote:
    I bought an iPhone 7s 8 months ago. Now there is an iPhone 8 and 10. Dear Apple, can I have a new one?

    Answer? No. why should phase one. They give an upgrade to those who bought 10, 30 days before the update. This is reasonable as There has to be a cut off right? The same used to happen with photoshop before they went to their subscription model.

    What I’m saying is, don’t feel hard done by. It’s life.


    I am not asking them to upgrade my Mac free of charge so your comparison is lame.
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  • Ruediger Knuth
    Same with me. Paid version 10 at Oct. 6th. And now again together with a hefty price steep. Made a ticket and got an arrogant answer from service. OK, I think PhaseOne has enough customers so they are no longer interested in some of us
    ( and please users like emile1 keep your answers for yourself! )

    BTW. even monthly subscription of Capture One is double the price than for Photoshop and Lightroom together.
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  • Ruediger Knuth
    [quote="NNN636454353744480612" wrote:
    I bought an iPhone 7s 8 months ago. Now there is an iPhone 8 and 10. Dear Apple, can I have a new one?

    Answer? No. why should phase one. They give an upgrade to those who bought 10, 30 days before the update. This is reasonable as There has to be a cut off right? The same used to happen with photoshop before they went to their subscription model.

    What I’m saying is, don’t feel hard done by. It’s life.


    What a stupid post.
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  • Wesley
    [quote="NN635299624516976000UL" wrote:
    Same with me. Paid version 10 at Oct. 6th. And now again together with a hefty price steep. Made a ticket and got an arrogant answer from service. OK, I think PhaseOne has enough customers so they are no longer interested in some of us
    ( and please users like emile1 keep your answers for yourself! )

    BTW. even monthly subscription of Capture One is double the price than for Photoshop and Lightroom together.


    30 day return or grace period is the standard in pretty much all sales transaction. You are pass that...

    Lets say you bought a camera, computer, or software on Oct 6th.
    Would any store let me return item or give me a discount when new model comes out on Nov 30th (more than 30 days)? 😐

    Price change is a bummer though.
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  • Robert Farhi
    Phase One has issued a new major upgrade every year in November-December from 2010:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_One
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  • Ruediger Knuth
    [quote="Wesley" wrote:
    [quote="NN635299624516976000UL" wrote:
    Same with me. Paid version 10 at Oct. 6th. And now again together with a hefty price steep. Made a ticket and got an arrogant answer from service. OK, I think PhaseOne has enough customers so they are no longer interested in some of us
    ( and please users like emile1 keep your answers for yourself! )

    BTW. even monthly subscription of Capture One is double the price than for Photoshop and Lightroom together.


    30 day return or grace period is the standard in pretty much all sales transaction. You are pass that...

    Lets say you bought a camera, computer, or software on Oct 6th.
    Would any store let me return item or give me a discount when new model comes out on Nov 30th (more than 30 days)? 😐

    Price change is a bummer though.


    The software release is not a complete new software that has been developed from scratch! It has only a few new changes (who really needs assets?). If you compare it to cameras you have to buy a new camera instead of getting a new function with a firmware update.
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  • CAPTURE NIKON DPRO1
    i have 3 Point for you guys....

    1. i stopped buying upgrades since C9.

    2. this piece of software is for hou " don't worry about spending money "

    3. professional photographer are creative Arts, they know how to use there brain without speeding bunch of money.

    free software and small cameras are also gread equipment

    so how need it can buy it and enjoy it .
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  • Wesley
    [quote="NN635299624516976000UL" wrote:
    [quote="Wesley" wrote:
    [quote="NN635299624516976000UL" wrote:
    Same with me. Paid version 10 at Oct. 6th. And now again together with a hefty price steep. Made a ticket and got an arrogant answer from service. OK, I think PhaseOne has enough customers so they are no longer interested in some of us
    ( and please users like emile1 keep your answers for yourself! )

    BTW. even monthly subscription of Capture One is double the price than for Photoshop and Lightroom together.


    30 day return or grace period is the standard in pretty much all sales transaction. You are pass that...

    Lets say you bought a camera, computer, or software on Oct 6th.
    Would any store let me return item or give me a discount when new model comes out on Nov 30th (more than 30 days)? 😐

    Price change is a bummer though.


    The software release is not a complete new software that has been developed from scratch! It has only a few new changes (who really needs assets?). If you compare it to cameras you have to buy a new camera instead of getting a new function with a firmware update.

    Neither are cameras, parts are re-used for years with only few changes. I was hoping you understand that.
    We cannot just upgrade a few parts of the camera (and pay an upgrade price) unlike Capture One. Imagine only full price option.

    I'd rather have new camera models come out yearly and me paying an upgrade price if I had the previous two models but one can only hope.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Wesley" wrote:

    I'd rather have new camera models come out yearly and me paying an upgrade price if I had the previous two models but one can only hope.


    You can do that.

    Well, you can if you use a camera phone.

    However,

    I have had my smart phone for 3 years. Nothing wrong with it and it still does what it always has done, mostly. I don't use the camera much.

    I paid something like £240 for it as I recall. The latest model (major change about every year, intermediate update in the middle of the period) would start at £450 for the equivalent device.

    I noticed there is a trade-in scheme (it's not on contract) so, not expecting much, I checked what they would offer for a fully working undamaged device with charger, etc.

    £20.

    Not worth the effort of putting it in a bag and paying to return it.

    I don't need a new phone as far as I can tell.

    These days we don't really pay for the goods but the services and the utility that they provide. The goods are very short life expectation. They have to be. Global economics demands it. It's fashion as much as anything. Fashion and Product photographers are likely to be rather grateful that it works that way.


    Grant
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