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dehaze slider?

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12 commentaires

  • Ian Wilson
    We don't know, as we are only fellow users. If you think that it would be a good feature for Capture One, you can suggest it to Phase One using the support case system.

    Of course, you may gauge from a post like this whether other users share your view that this might be a good idea, and also you might find that other users have suggestions about the best existing tools for achieving a dehaze effect.

    Ian
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  • IanS
    [quote="lukx" wrote:
    Any plans for Dehaze slider as in LR ?


    Long post sorry, but your question raises a number of issues and having come from LR it is very helpful to understand how and why C1Pro works. If you just try to use it as if it were LR as I did initially you will not have a good experience.

    DXO were the first software to come out with a Dehaze tool quickly followed by LR and others. My personal opinion is that Phase One will not be adding a dehaze slider for the same reason that there is not a red eye tool.

    Red eye correction and Dehaze are functions that can be easily applied with the existing tools and from what I have read, and watched some very informative video interviews Luminous Landscape did with Phase One senior technical people any addition to the UI needs to be very well justified. It is simply a difference in philosophy. In LR, which I used since V1, the philosophy of the original lead engineer was “anything but Photoshop†with regards the UI. This is why the crop tool in LR behaves oppositely to PS and every other image editing application that I have seen. So rather than relying on the PS tools of Levels, Curves and layers LR adds individual sliders. This is why you have a whites, and Blacks slider and these are not in C1pro either. C1Pro follows the standard PS UI philosophy where you have Levels and Curves as your primary tone adjustment tools. So if you want to adjust the white or black point you would do so the same way as in PS i.e using the Levels or Curves tools.

    With C1Pro this does mean that if you are not so familiar with PS then you have a bit of a learning curve. LR does not provide a Levels tool although you can do the same job in Curves and it might be worth looking at this short tutorial video on using Levels in C1Pro to enhance your understanding of what can be accomplished with Levels.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQiqOinqHV4&t=481s

    If you want to replicate the effect of the Dehaze slider you are really just increasing contrast. When you increase contrast you also impact colour, this is how the tone controls are designed to work. You should note that the Curves tool in C1Pro has, as well as the normal RGB and separate R, G and B curve options, also has a special Luma Curve available. The Luma curve lets you adjust contrast without impacting colours and is another tool LR does not have.

    So, to replicate the effect of the Dehaze slider I would suggest that you try just increasing the black level in the levels control to taste and add some Clarity and Structure. Unlike LR the Clarity control in C1Pro has several different modes available and you will find in Natural mode you can push the slider much harder without breaking the image compared to LR. The Structure control is also not available in LR and enhances fine detail and it is worth the time to get to understand how this works.

    You will have noticed that in when you use the Dehaze tool the colours tend to oversaturate you can control this in multiple ways in C1Pro using the Levels, Curves, Saturation slider (note the Saturation slider in the main exposure tab works like the vibrance slider in LR with positive values, so no vibrance slider needed, and like a normal saturation slider with negative values. If for some reason you don’t want vibrance but the more aggressive “normal†saturation slider behaviour you need to use the saturation control in the colour tab. If you want to avoid changing colours you could always use the Luma curve in place of levels to adjust contrast.

    To get the best out of C1Pro you might want to take a look at the various tutorials provided by Phase One, these are some I would recommend:

    Colour Editor MasterClass - 1
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejPPkUJyv0&t=1544s

    Layers Masterclass
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk4iu12XiNw&t=3166s

    Luma Masking
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXm6lPg1ttg

    Session Organisation
    https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4355557

    One last point remember r that you have two option in C1Pro to either use a catalogue or work on the files directly in Session mode. Having used LR for so long I started off with catalogues because that was what I knew. Now I use sessions. With sessions you have the option of importing the session at a later date into an “Archive†catalogue if required.
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  • SFA
    Good post IanS.

    Not having used LR since V1.4 (and a quick look at V3) I am not in a position to help out with a direct comparison of recent LR and C1. However I often wondered how they really compare.

    Thanks to you I now feel I have a much better understanding and a basis on which to compare products (not just LR) as they are developed.
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  • C-M-B
    If you want to use something like de-hazing in Capture One on a regular basis, you should create a Style for that with all the aproprite Settings set to their maximum value - and then when you need it simply create a layer and apply this Style to it.
    Then you can use the opacity setting to adjus its stength.
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  • Irvin Gomez
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Good post IanS.

    Not having used LR since V1.4 (and a quick look at V3) I am not in a position to help out with a direct comparison of recent LR and C1. However I often wondered how they really compare.


    Lightroom and Capture One are pretty similar in capability nowadays. They have different tools and workflow, but the output quality is pretty similar, with Lightroom having advantages in a few areas and Capture One in a few others. Great work can be done with either one and absolutely nobody in the world would be able to tell which software was used to post-process any specific picture.

    I love Capture One's great initial color rendition - but the truth is the same results can be obtained with Lightroom with a few extra clicks and a bit extra time (I'm talking minutes, not hours). The extra time and clicks are more than generously compensated by the tight (and semi-free*) integration with Photoshop, which does make a huge difference because then, there are things that Capture One can't even touch.

    But then again, if we compare Lightroom to Capture One without anything else, they are both great and the best editors in the industry. If Photoshop did not exist, I'd choose Capture One. I think the workflow is a bit faster. With Photoshop and the other goodies in the picture, it would be a no-brainer choosing the Adobe subscription. Luckily for me I can use both Capture One and Lightroom.

    *semi-free because the $120/year price of the subscription means Photoshop is bundled for almost nothing, but of course, we are paying, so it's not really free, after all. Just an incredible bargain.
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  • Irvin Gomez
    [quote="lukx" wrote:
    Any plans for dehaze slider as in LR ?


    Have no idea - but the same effect can be achieved in Capture One with luma contrast and a couple of other adjustments. A few extra clicks, but just as good as Lightroom.

    De-haze is pretty convenient and literally enhances every single picture when used in moderation. Lots of people use it at 4-8% to add instant pop and definition to pictures.
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  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="Irvin.Gomez" wrote:
    the same effect can be achieved in Capture One with luma contrast and a couple of other adjustments. A few extra clicks, but just as good as Lightroom.

    It's not even close to "proper" DeHaze. It is impossible to recreate using Capture One existing tools.

    This is as true now as it was when this thread started: http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=20458&hilit=dehaze#p95742 - DeHaze/ClearView also enhance micro-detail in a way which nothing in Capture One can do: there's some properly novel processing going on with these tools for which Capture One has no equivalent.

    I was an official beta tester for DxO when it introduced ClearView, and I'm privy to some behind-the-scenes knowledge of how it works which I can't share here due to the ongoing effect of the NDA, but be in no doubt that it's doing an awful lot more than mucking about with contrast, black points, curves and so on.

    Please note the last-but-one post, from Wilson32, on the linked thread: he sums up the ongoing reality of DeHaze as far as Capture One is concerned...
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  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="IanS" wrote:
    If you want to replicate the effect of the Dehaze slider you are really just increasing contrast.

    Not even close to true.
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  • Irvin Gomez
    [quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
    [quote="Irvin.Gomez" wrote:
    the same effect can be achieved in Capture One with luma contrast and a couple of other adjustments. A few extra clicks, but just as good as Lightroom.

    It's not even close to "proper" DeHaze. It is impossible to recreate using Capture One existing tools.

    This is as true now as it was when this thread started: http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=20458&hilit=dehaze#p95742 - DeHaze/ClearView also enhance micro-detail in a way which nothing in Capture One can do: there's some properly novel processing going on with these tools for which Capture One has no equivalent.

    I was an official beta tester for DxO when it introduced ClearView, and I'm privy to some behind-the-scenes knowledge of how it works which I can't share here due to the ongoing effect of the NDA, but be in no doubt that it's doing an awful lot more than mucking about with contrast, black points, curves and so on.

    Please note the last-but-one post, from Wilson32, on the linked thread: he sums up the ongoing reality of DeHaze as far as Capture One is concerned...


    My experience is totally different.

    Yes, Capture One does not have a dedicated De-haze tool, but you can use a combination of Levels (a very powerful Capture One tool which Lightroom does not have, either!) to set your white and black points, followed by contrast and saturation. Throw in a bit of structure as needed and you have achieved your dehaze. Put the effect on a layer (if needed), and you're done.

    It should be noted that Lightroom's dehaze, while a great tool (yes, Capture One could use something similar to save on clicks, just the way Lightroom should have a Levels panel like Capture One's), tends to grossly damage colors. It usually requires adjustment in the saturation or vibrancy sliders. Btw, the need for dehaze is lesser in Capture One because its default rendition has more contrast and more color vibrancy than Lightroom's. So you start a bit ahead of the curve in Capture One.

    As I have repeatedly stated in this forum, the workflows are different, the tools are different, but the results are virtually identical with either Lightroom or Capture One, and mostly dependent on operator skill.
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  • Clau_S
    Maybe someone could be interested in this tutorial on how to dehaze with CO that I've just seen on YT (it's really fresh).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2js4ELed3U

    The result is not exactly the same and maybe there's something more or different that could have been done to get the image closer to LR. However the video shows that with a very fast process you can get a good starting point with a natural look.
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  • Michael Iannantuoni
    Interesting technique and a good starting point. Thanks for the link.
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  • Mnl
    [quote="ClauS" wrote:
    Maybe someone could be interested in this tutorial on how to dehaze with CO that I've just seen on YT (it's really fresh).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2js4ELed3U

    The result is not exactly the same and maybe there's something more or different that could have been done to get the image closer to LR. However the video shows that with a very fast process you can get a good starting point with a natural look.


    That is the best way to do dehazing in C1 I have seen so far. Thanks for sharing.
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