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Not happy with C1 12 Skin tones om Sony A9

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12 commentaires

  • SFA
    Presumably you are using the Sony A9 Generic profile in Base Characteristics but which associated Curve do you choose?


    Grant
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  • NNN635507439502082957
    i played around with base characteristics but apart from added contrast didn't see much difference.
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  • Robert Farhi
    Did you try "Linear response" curve ? It gives better and larger flexibility in adjustments.
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  • Keith Reeder
    It's pretty much accepted that Sony cameras struggle with skin tones - their "colour science" is miles behind Canon and Nikon - so are you not just seeing Sony's inherent problem with colour?
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN635507439502082957" wrote:
    i played around with base characteristics but apart from added contrast didn't see much difference.


    That's unusual.

    Are you able to share an image somewhere in a file sharing service so that people can check the results on other systems?

    My favoured starting point for most images is a Linear Curve with some adjustments of my own added.


    Grant
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  • Christiaan mak
    [quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
    It's pretty much accepted that Sony cameras struggle with skin tones - their "colour science" is miles behind Canon and Nikon - so are you not just seeing Sony's inherent problem with colour?

    We are talking raw conversion with a fully Phase One made profile here, with Phase one made tone curves and de-bayering and all other conversions to turn raw values into an image, including white balance interpretation.
    So how is it that Sony's "color science" is miles behind, and ruins skin tones here?

    Chris
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  • Robert Farhi
    [quote="ChrisM" wrote:

    We are talking raw conversion with a fully Phase One made profile here, with Phase one made tone curves and de-bayering and all other conversions to turn raw values into an image, including white balance interpretation.
    So how is it that Sony's "color science" is miles behind, and ruins skin tones here?
    Chris


    Good point. I remember having used 4 years ago Lightroom for my Leica M9 camera, and the red tones were terrible at this time*. When I switched to C1, I got much better colours....

    *now LR has better input profiles
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  • Christiaan mak
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    [quote="ChrisM" wrote:

    We are talking raw conversion with a fully Phase One made profile here, with Phase one made tone curves and de-bayering and all other conversions to turn raw values into an image, including white balance interpretation.
    So how is it that Sony's "color science" is miles behind, and ruins skin tones here?
    Chris


    Good point. I remember having used 4 years ago Lightroom for my Leica M9 camera, and the red tones were terrible at this time*. When I switched to C1, I got much better colours....

    *now LR has better input profiles

    That seems logical. Now, for all I know, Sony's "color science" may well be miles behind, with jpeg rendering or "native" raw developing (in a vendor supplied app) lacking. The question is though: how would this show up in a raw image rendered and developed in CO1?

    Chris
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  • NNN635507439502082957
    Hi,

    I guess I am having the same issues with Sony+C1 as I had with Nikon and Lightroom. The jpegs out of the Sony and Nikon looked spot on whereas the RAW output would look wonky. It just didn't look right -- no matter what I tried. I started using Lightroom v2-5 then Capture 7-12. The results from Nikon looked spectacular via C1 and the colors were vibrant with great skin tones. With sony the colors don't look right even during magic hour where subtle colored tones hitting skin looked amazing on even old camera like d800+ c1.

    I have seen a lot of videos with Lightroom users and the images from Sony looks quite spectacular. I would try Lightroom but my demo is already expired and I just paid for the C1 12 upgrade.

    Can anyone who uses Lightroom, capture one and Sony A9 please let me know if the results from A9 look better on LR?
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN635507439502082957" wrote:
    Hi,

    I guess I am having the same issues with Sony+C1 as I had with Nikon and Lightroom. The jpegs out of the Sony and Nikon looked spot on whereas the RAW output would look wonky. It just didn't look right -- no matter what I tried. I started using Lightroom v2-5 then Capture 7-12. The results from Nikon looked spectacular via C1 and the colors were vibrant with great skin tones. With sony the colors don't look right even during magic hour where subtle colored tones hitting skin looked amazing on even old camera like d800+ c1.

    I have seen a lot of videos with Lightroom users and the images from Sony looks quite spectacular. I would try Lightroom but my demo is already expired and I just paid for the C1 12 upgrade.

    Can anyone who uses Lightroom, capture one and Sony A9 please let me know if the results from A9 look better on LR?


    I think there is something else going in here that no one can specifically advise you about without some examples. Preferably a RAW file and its OOC jpg to download.

    The OOC jpg will, as you no doubt know, be a burned in compressed file of whatever size the camera delivers and if that is what you like so be it. Personally, on that basis, if it was me shooting I would take the jpg and not worry about the RAW, so saving a lot of work.

    If you colours are way off then there is a good chance that some other settings of interacting with what you are doing when RAW processing. At that point one might start the entire discussion about a colour managed work flow, how your hardware (all of it) is set up and so on.

    A simpler question would be what, if anything, you are doing about proofing win the editing process, specifically whether you have any process recipe(s) in use and how they are defined.

    I know next to nothing about Sony cameras. Can you set the camera to use either the sRGB or Adobe RGB colour space for its OOC jpgs? If so which do you use? Are you using the same settings when viewing on your screens?

    Are you only assessing the colour question on screen or also in print?

    (If in print there is a whole new collection of cans full of worms to consider.)


    Grant
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  • NNN635507439502082957
    Hi Grant,

    my workflow is pretty much the same as it was with the Nikon. I am viewing images via a regularly calibrated NEC PA271 monitor in a dark room. I have done nothing fancy to the Sony image settings for the JPEGS. I think it is just the way C1 12 renders Sony files. With Nikon it was spot on with very little tuning. With Sony i have to work the files and I'm never quite pleased with the tweaking. I also shoot Panasonic and C1 results look very pleasing to the eye.
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN635507439502082957" wrote:
    Hi Grant,

    my workflow is pretty much the same as it was with the Nikon. I am viewing images via a regularly calibrated NEC PA271 monitor in a dark room. I have done nothing fancy to the Sony image settings for the JPEGS. I think it is just the way C1 12 renders Sony files. With Nikon it was spot on with very little tuning. With Sony i have to work the files and I'm never quite pleased with the tweaking. I also shoot Panasonic and C1 results look very pleasing to the eye.


    Have you yet tried starting with a Linear Curve and and developing your own preferences?

    Absent a sample to work with and compare with images that you are happy with we have nothing to work with here.

    I would suggest you take it up with the Capture One Support Team through a Support Case.

    Many many years ago I bought a pocket Sony digital camera for a trip and was knocked out by what it offered at the time. Especially the very Sony blue skies.

    Sony skies are still a special shade of blue and I'm not entirely convinced that the effect does not wash over into other colours in the image at normal and near normal settings. However my opinion is based almost entirely on viewing other people's images and experimenting with sample files once or twice with no reference point from the photographer who took the shoot. At least not for skin tones.


    Grant
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