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Questions about albums

Permanently deleted user
Hi all

I have 2 questions about albums in C1 V8.1 :

1) In the user guide, nested albums are mentionned in 2 places : "Create a Catalog Template" and "Create a Session Template". The sentence is :
"Making a Template allows you to create a new Session with a predetermined set of Session Albums and Session Favorites instead of starting from the presets. This may be a valuable time saving exercise if you adopt a complex hierarchy of nested Albums."
My question is : how do you make nested albums ? Nowhere in the UI or in the manual or in the online help could I find how to do this.

2) In the user guide, in the "Work in sessions simultaneously" topic, I can read : "
1. When one session is open, choose File>Open Session.
2. Browse and open the next session file Sessionname.cosessiondb.
3. It is now possible to drag and drop image files from one Session to another."
My question is : is it possible to drag and drop images from an album in session A to an other album in session B ?
I tried to do it, the + sign appears when the mouse cursor is on the destination folder (which is then highlighted) but when I release the mouse button, nothing happens, the destination album stays empty. Did I miss something or is there a bug in the Windows version or is it impossible between albums (of course I'm not speaking of smart albums) ?

I'm using C1 V8.1 with Windows 7 and I work with sessions.

Thanks in advance for your help. 😊
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    A1) With sessions, you can not make nested albums. I consider this an error in the manual. With catalogs you can, as you can nest an album in a group or project. So the manual and I contradict.

    B1) Drag and drop an image between albums of different sessions is indeed not working on CO 8.1/Windows. It is on Mac but I am not sure you want it to work or want to use it. The issue is that the an album only contains a link to an image. When I drag and drop an image from a folder (session A) to an album (session B), the image is still in the originating folder of session A and nowhere in my session B folders. Think of the confusing consequences when I clean session A or archive it.

    Moving and copying images between session works great between folders (folder-to-folder) and from album-to-folder. In other words, when the target is a folder. This works fine on both Mac and Windows versions of CO 8.1.
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  • SFA
    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
    A1) With sessions, you can not make nested albums. I consider this an error in the manual. With catalogs you can, as you can nest an album in a group or project. So the manual and I contradict.



    The exception here for sessions might be an OUTPUT folder structure where nesting of folders to save repeating the process would be logical as part of a default session folder construction.

    Possibly some of the other "working" folder too, though not the image store folder since a session works with direct access to folders and does not therefore expect to recognise nesting.


    Grant
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    Hi Grant,

    You can indeed nest folders in a session, but I believe you can not nest albums.
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  • SFA
    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
    Hi Grant,

    You can indeed nest folders in a session, but I believe you can not nest albums.


    Good point Paul!

    I read this (wrongly) late last night and posted today without re-reading the original. Had I done so I might have spotted my wrong assumption. Thanks for pointing it out!


    Grant
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Thank you for your answers.

    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:

    A1) With sessions, you can not make nested albums. I consider this an error in the manual. With catalogs you can, as you can nest an album in a group or project. So the manual and I contradict.

    It could be useful, but I admit I can do without it. 😉

    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:

    B1) Drag and drop an image between albums of different sessions is indeed not working on CO 8.1/Windows. It is on Mac but I am not sure you want it to work or want to use it. The issue is that the an album only contains a link to an image. When I drag and drop an image from a folder (session A) to an album (session B), the image is still in the originating folder of session A and nowhere in my session B folders. Think of the confusing consequences when I clean session A or archive it.

    Moving and copying images between session works great between folders (folder-to-folder) and from album-to-folder. In other words, when the target is a folder. This works fine on both Mac and Windows versions of CO 8.1.

    I don't understand why this feature works on Mac and not on Win ? I would like very much it to work on Windows !

    It can take very much time to browse dozens of folders to pick photos related to a given theme and gather them into an album. The same collection can be needed in different sessions and I would find very useful to be able to copy an album from a session to another. Dragging and dropping the pictures could be one easy way to do it. Copying a whole album would be an other possibility, I don't think it possible with the V8.1.

    Please, do you have any suggestion to do it with C1 V8.1 ? Thanks in advance.

    PS I know that the album contains the path to the files, but the path of a given file is the same in any session. I mean that the same file, seen from session A or session B has still the same path on disk (it is in the same physical folder).
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  • SFA
    Epipactis, this comment piqued my interest.

    "The same collection can be needed in different sessions and I would find very useful to be able to copy an album from a session to another. "

    I must confess I can't think of many instances personally where I would be expecting to duplicate sessions or parts of sessions that contain the same set of images on a regular basis - if at all.

    If I was intending to do that for some reason I think I would consider using a smart album and "tag" the images in some suitable way in one session so that when made available in another session they could easily be identified and selected for an album or simply b called up using the same smart album definition. However I don't see myself using such an approach Copy Album" facility so I would love to understand better what the requirement is that drives the need. Can you share that?



    Grant
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Hi Grant
    Of course I can share, this is the purpose of a forum. 😉
    The main difficulty for me is to explain in English my way of using sessions.

    Ideally, it should not be necessary to copy an album (or part of an album) from one session to another. But in practice, I need it when I have gathered many images in many albums in one session. In the end this session is very big (> 300 MB for instance), so I wish to split it into several sessions. And I tried to duplicate a big session and then to delete some albums but the size of the session does not decrease a lot. In fact the sessions become bigger and bigger because they store the paths of every file of every folder that has been opened once by the session. And I don't know any way to clean it.
    So, to have a "clean" session (containing only interesting information, i.e. albums and the paths of the files contained in them), you have to create a new one, and then to browse only the useful folders and drag and drop the desired images in the right album. (Please note that the new session will store the paths of all the images of the browsed folders, not only the images listed in the albums, but the useless folders will be left apart).
    This is why I would like to open the (big) old sessions and export some of their albums to new clean sessions.

    Unless I missed something, an album is nothing more than a list of files (with their complete path), so I don't see why it would be impossible to export such a list from one session to another. Indeed, Paul said it does work on Mac. So why not on Windows ?

    Hoping my explanation is clear, best regards.
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  • SFA
    Hello Epipactis,

    That is a great help to understanding your requirement.

    On a point of detail - here you are suggesting, I think, that you wish to extract some images from one session and create anew session (the only way one might expect the cosession file to decrease in size) but in your original description the requirement appeared to be to share the same album (i.e. a virtual collection of images form various folders perhaps) with another session. I can, potentially, appreciate options to have the same images in more than one session - I sometimes do that - but the selection of an album to share sounded a little odd. There would likely be existing ways to do that.

    A 300mb cosession file (I assume you are reporting the size of the Database and not the size of the entire session) sounds quite large. I have one generic Session that I connect to various folders somewhat randomly at times and the related cosession file is 65Mb (approximately). It has been that sort of size for a while - I can see that from the backup files generated by upgrades and updates.

    Now, I don't know a way to deliver your album files to a new session since it is not something I have ever considered. However if part of your objective is to make the original session smaller I would guess that the only approach is to think along the lines of removing the images associated with the album from one session and then create a new session for them. Your concern about C1 retaining the links to all the folder opened in a session is something that such a process would need to consider if it is a genuine transfer from one folder to another and not a sharing of images. More of a "Move" than a "Copy".

    Does that thinking match your requirement? If so should be able to come up with a process to deliver it.



    Grant
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  • Permanently deleted user
    SFA wrote:
    Hello Epipactis,

    That is a great help to understanding your requirement.

    On a point of detail - here you are suggesting, I think, that you wish to extract some images from one session and create anew session (the only way one might expect the cosession file to decrease in size) but in your original description the requirement appeared to be to share the same album (i.e. a virtual collection of images form various folders perhaps) with another session. I can, potentially, appreciate options to have the same images in more than one session - I sometimes do that - but the selection of an album to share sounded a little odd. There would likely be existing ways to do that.

    Hi Grant
    Please read again the point 2) in my initial post :
    "My question is : is it possible to drag and drop images from an album in session A to an other album in session B ?"

    I don't try to share an album between 2 sessions since an album belongs to only one session (and I don't think that it will change) ! But I only ask for the drag and drop to work from an album in session A to an album in session B. Since it works on Mac and drag'n drop does exist on Windows, there's no valid reason. For me, it's nothing else than a bug !

    SFA wrote:
    A 300mb cosession file (I assume you are reporting the size of the Database and not the size of the entire session) sounds quite large. I have one generic Session that I connect to various folders somewhat randomly at times and the related cosession file is 65Mb (approximately). It has been that sort of size for a while - I can see that from the backup files generated by upgrades and updates.

    On my disc, the size of a session is nearly the size of the cosessiondb file since the session's folders (Output, Selects, Trash) are empty. So yes, I was speaking of the cosessiondb file's size.
    I browsed many of my folders because I wanted to gather for instance my best birds pictures. If the folder contains many birds, its name will contain "Birds". But if the folder contains various subjects with very few birds, its name may not contain this word. So if I did not want to miss interesting images, I had to browse many folders (except those where I was sure they did not contain birds).

    Now that I have discovered how the sessions get bigger and bigger, I changed my way of gathering images in albums : I browse my folders with a working session (I may call it "disposable session" since it does not contain valuable information) and then I create a useful session with my albums in it.
    My problem is mainly for a big old session. However, in the future, I could need again to export the contents of an album from one session to another (for reorganizing purposes).

    SFA wrote:
    Now, I don't know a way to deliver your album files to a new session since it is not something I have ever considered. However if part of your objective is to make the original session smaller I would guess that the only approach is to think along the lines of removing the images associated with the album from one session and then create a new session for them. Your concern about C1 retaining the links to all the folder opened in a session is something that such a process would need to consider if it is a genuine transfer from one folder to another and not a sharing of images. More of a "Move" than a "Copy".

    Does that thinking match your requirement? If so should be able to come up with a process to deliver it.

    Grant

    Excuse me but I do not understand what you meant in this last paragraph. 🤭
    The problem is that a session contains 2 types of information :
    - the first (all the paths* of all the images that have been opened at least once) is useless for me (I suppose that C1 needs it to work) but it increases considerably the session's size and there is no way to avoid it. (Imagine that even the paths of the deleted images are retained in the session database ! And no way to clean it !).
    - the second (session's albums) is useful for me and it represents a big work (many hours spent to browse the folders and select the best images).
    Once they are mixed, there is no other way to separate them than exporting the albums contents (by drag and drop or by a dedicated export command that still does not exist in C1) from the old session to a new one.

    *EDIT I'd like to bring a small precision : the names of all the image files that have been opened once are recorded in the session but the complete path is not repeated for each one, it is only referenced. The paths of all opened folders are stored in another table of the database. Nevertheless, my Birds session is exactly 336 MegaBytes and its albums are not complete, I have yet folders to browse in search of bird images.
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