Smart Album are not importing images by Key Word
I have set up smart albums to import images sorted by Key Words. I have a number of smart albums and they worked at one time. They no longer seem to import images after I add a Key Word. I thought I could synchronize the albums but the synchronize tab is darken when I right click on any album or folder. I have tried closing and reopening Capture One, but that does not help. I am looking for any other suggestions.
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Smart albums are predefined filters, not real albums, so unless I am mistaken you cannot import into them. If you are using a catalog, which I assume, you either import them "inside catalog" or keep them in their original location, then they are only referenced. Many prefer the latter.
I don't use it but I think I remember you can specify in addition a collection (real album) on import. But this also is only a reference, the raw files are either "inside catalog" which is one big folder (or package, on Mac) or kept in the original location.
You can tag them after import (set keywords) and they will appear in the smart albums which filter for the respective keyword(s).
synchronize only works on folders to my knowledge, as this is for new files or deleted files in the folder hence only makes sense for these.
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I understand how smart albums work. I am not attempting to import into a smart album. I use them on a regular basis. My inquiry is generated because I tag an image in a large album with a key word and refer to key word in the search criteria for the smart album and the image with the keyword is not imported. It used to work. I think you are correct that you can only synchronize folders. I do not generally use folders. I use albums and smart albums and projects. I am aware that you can not ask a smart album to import from a project that it is outside of its project. However, it should work within projects and mins is not working.
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See my answer above. I just want the smart album to work in the same way it has in the past. I did not change it, I simple tagged additional images with the same key words and they are not being imported into the smart album.
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I am adding the key word by clicking on it from my key word library in my key word catalog.
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My inquiry is generated because I tag an image in a large album with a key word and refer to key word in the search criteria for the smart album and the image with the keyword is not imported.
The confusion probably comes from your use of the word "imported" in the above statements. Imported has a specific meaning to most and "belonging in a smart album" is not one of those meanings.
That said, I've seen the same issue you are seeing. In fact, I'm seeing it on one of my smart albums right now. I deleted the smart album showing 37 images and re-created it using exactly the same criteria -- keywords contains value. The album now has over 12,000 images (which sounds about right for this particular keyword).
I don't know why this happens. At least re-creating the album does what I want. Luckily, most of my smart albums are simple enough to re-create.
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Marchyman, do you also use projects?
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No, I do not use projects. Also, the smart album that I mentioned above was not in a user collection project. At this time I only use groups and smart albums in my user collections.
When a smart album fails it does act as if the there is some hidden filter that limits the images. When I run into the issue I rebuild my smart album so I can get on with whatever it was I was trying to do. I don't want to take time debugging Capture One. That's not my job ;)
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There are no global filters enabled. When the smart album doesn't show all images it still shows images from multiple folders, proving that it's not a filtered selection of a single folder.
The only way I've found to resolve the issue when it occurs is to delete and then re-create the smart album.
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Well I think I identified and solved my multiple problems. I trashed the Black and White smart album and tried to rename it B & W, however that did not work. It goes back to an older problem I had a sought help for that I could never resolve. That problem was that I can not delete the Black and White Key Word. I do not no why. I delete it from catalog key word list and it says it is removing all of the images with that key word. It is deleted for about 30 seconds and then it reappears, and all of the images reappear. The problem was that this key word as automatically added to many images that were not black and white images, it may have occurred on import, but I should have been able to remove the key word from the images. It does not occur with images I am importing now. The program did not let me permanently remove the key word. I solved my problem like this: I cannot figure out how to delete specific key words from the filters library, so I hid all of the keywords. Then I created a new smart album entitled BW and instructed it to search for images with the key word B & W. That solution seems to have worked. I now have keywords in my Catalog that I will never use and they simply sit there until I find a way to permanently delete them. This solution seems to work and I so not want to spend any more time on it. It side n to seem to be a problem with my other smart albums. I set up smart albums by key words because it meets my needs.
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Typically a an "undeletable" keyword is the result of either a repeating synchronisation of Metadata between systems or, perhaps more common, one or more imported files where the KW in question is embedded in a source file - often a jpg for example.
C1 will never change a source file so to get rid of embedded but unwanted metadata in such situations you would need to use a different tool to eliminate the unwanted KWs. (Or remove the source images from the library). Then delete the KW from the C1 library and it should stay removed as long as nothing is going to add it back once again.
If you check these suggestions, resolve any issues and the problem still persists, then it would be time to re-consider whether there are some other angles to research.
HTH
Grant
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Bob,
I think it may simply be a question of updating the previous collected "search list" - i.e. a forced refresh of the images current collected and made available ready for editing by the smart album in working memory.
If you click on a different smart album and then return to the previous one what happens?
(I don't suggest that is a way to do things - just an easy way to describe an action that will test the suggestion.)
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Grant - You may be correct that the key word is imbedded in a source file. It is easier for me to simply ignore that particular key word and use another one with the same meaning. I do not want to take the time looking for the source file as I generally import a large number of files at one time and there could be a large number of source files. All of my other smart albums and key words seem to be working fine.
Do you know if there is any way for me to look at the import settings for files imported a couple of years ago. I think I know when this problem occurred.
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This is a legitimate issue. I have been experiencing it since Capture one 11 or 12, and came here looking for a solution. I have tried all the suggestions here (unchecking/checking the keyword rule; inverting it to Keywords "does not contain" <keyword> and then putting it back to "contains"; changing the criteria to "Any" instead of "All" rules; selecting the Capture folder before the Smart Album, etc.). None of these work. I left some of these not-working keyword-based smart albums and one day, maybe days or weeks later, some of them might start working. For instance, I have some nested keywords Attribute > Tag > pick and Attribute > Tag > final. I created a smart album to pull in photos with the keyword "pick" and another with "final". In some of my sessions the "pick" Smart Album is actually populated, but for most of them it isn't, and I don't think I have any where the "final" Smart Album is working. Will report it after this.
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Nikhil,
Is this related to a catalog or sessions?
Is it possible that you might have a situation where you have source, keyworded files from multiple camera types (may be many imported from anouther system, but not all of them are supported for editing in C1 - either through lack of support for the camera OR because that RAW file type is disabled in preferences?
Also might case sensitivity be involved?
I use sessions and have many with hierarchical keyword sets all added through several versions of C1, that can in some case duplicate "words" at different levels in the hierarchies or include them a second time in a non-hierarchical context. So far, in releases for the past few years, I have not discovered any problems with selections. That is not to say that no problems exist but I have not discovered them or have been able to work out why an apparent anomaly has occurred.
Of course my sessions have somewhat constrained subject matter compared to, for example, a general catalogue and therefore the number of keywords, though not small, may be less than for a catalogue. There may be differences in operation that are more significant than is apparent through the UI.
One other variable is that I use Windows rather than Mac.
So there is potential for variation in operation but as far as I can tell from my experience the functionally works as expected so long as my expectation are correct - i.e. I have recognised any other "filtering" effects - rating, colour tag, album definitions, other filters, etc. that are active - when applying the keyword selection filter or search.
I would say I have come to be a big fan of the "Contains" option in the advance Search tool when Keywords are involved. "Equals" may be too specific in some cases.
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Bob W,
Sorry, did not previously see you earlier reply and question.
I'm not sure what Import setting you are hoping to identify but anything like that would likely only be indicated in the imported files as far as I could imagine.
If a Collection was created at the time and you have not deleted it (I am assuming a Catalogue here) then that might offer a list of files. I hardly use catalogues so I'm not sure what they retain long term. A session might have the Recent Import set retained if you imported to it.
I'm not sure they would help with discovering what you want to discover.
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Related to sessions. Was fiddling around more and it seems like an issue that only shows up with nested keywords for me. I imported the Foundations keyword library which has quite a few keywords, which might have something to do with it. So for a keyword "picked" at the top level, smart albums filtering for that "Keyword contains 'pick'" works fine. However if the same keyword is nested at ~ATTRIBUTE > ~Tag > pick, then using the filter "Keyword contains 'pick'" does not work. I did discover a workaround: instead of using the smart album filter "Keyword contains 'pick'" I can use "Any contains 'pick'" and then it finds the photos. That will probably work for me for all my use cases.
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Am I right in thinking the ~Attribute you mention is a special feature to hide that part of the hierarchy?
If so as afar as I am aware this is not supported by the C1 Keyword functionality rules.
"Any" is simply an open character string search through the entire EXIF/IPTC record (as far as I am aware). No special interpretation controls for that.
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I have been using C1 since v5 and LR since V2 in parallel. I have a phase one DB which I use with C1 and also use various other cameras which I use with LR.
With C1 I have been using the catalogues ever since they finally added that feature, if I remember in V8.
The simple fact is that I have and continue to have all of the above issues with C1, and yet I never have and never have had any of these issues with LR. The catalogue in C1 is simply crap. The keywords (tags), smart albums, projects ect are way too complex and rarely work properly, and never for very long.
C1 is a great program for processing images (though rather obtuse and unintuitive) but the catalogue functionality is woeful! Come on Phase One, you charge a massive premium for this software and most of the issue listed above have been with us since the origins of the C1 catalogue and never seem to improve.
If you add a feature and publicise how great it is then it should bloody well work!
Adobe (great satan that they are) don't make a big song and dance about their catalogue, it just works... every time. and always has. (yes yes I know LR is slow, thats not the issue here)
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Adam,
Interesting that you think the LR catalogue is slow and the (presumably) the C1 catalogue less slow. Over the years there have been many similar comments yet probably at least an equal number of comments making the exact opposite observation.
I find that interesting but have no explanation for the split.
I think your comments about complexity, obtuse and unintuitive probably fit into the same sort of categorisation. Some see it it that way, others, myself included, do not. Or at least do not for most of the functionality. Some of the stuff I rarely or never use might fit into that category. I have long assumed that different brains working in different ways are the reason. Similar to the way that some people seem to be natural linguists or musicians and others are not. One should always go with what one finds most helpful at a personal level.
You mention the catalogues being "crap" because, inter alia, they are too complex. I have lost count of how many posts there have been that seem to be suggesting they lack features - some of which sound incredibly complex and highly specialised. I cannot recall a post that absolutely demanded that catalogues should be available with a much simpler array of functionality.
I'm neutral on that score - I use sessions 99.9% of the time so the very nuances of difference in operation between a catalogue and a session are of only passing interest and the sessions seem to work fine. Perhaps it is all a matter of data volumes and hardware configurations - especially the deeply buried hardware decisions made by vendors that are rarely subject to scrutiny.
I think the biggest area of catalogues with which I am uncomfortable (and have been since I used LR V1 when it first came out) is that if you actually have an underlying but seemingly somewhat erratic problem with some with some of the data - especially EXIF/IPTC related - it can be a devil to sort out BUT, if not sorted, it will persist year after year.
With a session any problems in the session data are bounded (usually) by the session. Problems with Keyword libraries, should there be any, that are shared between sessions will likely repeat their problems session after session making the source of the that sort of problem more obvious. So it's easier and faster to manage when necessary.
A vast catalogue that is anything more than an active archive exercise (i.e.archive as in not used intentionally for new shoots and massive image editing projects) seems like a good possibility for acting as a source of frustration and so I choose to avoid that path.
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