Color Temperature instead of Kelvin
Implemented
Hi guys,
This is really a small request, but I feel that it's appropriate to use the term Color Temperature for the parameter in the White Balance tool instead of Kelvin.
Color temperature is the characteristic, and Kelvin is the unit.
For example, we don't say "what's the kilometer to the city center?" - we say "what's the distance?". And then, the answer comes probably in kilometers.
Or we don't say "Celsius is lower in the North" - we say "temperature is lower".
So I don't think it's proper to say "this photo has a high Kelvin - lower the Kelvin". You can't adjust the unit of measure, you rather adjust the property which is measured by that unit.
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Thank you for feedback on Capture One - this is always welcomed and encouraged among our users and we appreciate the time you've taken to contribute towards the development of the software.
I have forwarded your comments and suggestions on to our Product Management team as something to consider in a future release.
Whist we cannot comment on future releases, we take all suggestions on board and hopefully your feedback contributes towards a future version of Capture One.
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For example, we don't say "what's the kilometer to the city center?" - we say "what's the distance?". And then, the answer comes probably in kilometers.
True, for some reason we don't say that. But we do say "What's the mileage to the city centre?", in the same way that we talk about the "tonnage" of ships, or "footage" of movie films. So there's no accounting for popular usage!
But as far as I can see, most other software leading software uses the term "temperature" in this context, so your suggestion probably leads to consistency.
Ian
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Ian, another option would be to call it Kelvinage then :-D
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Ah yes! Perhaps temperature isn't such a bad idea after all.
Ian
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Unless, of course, one wishes to be sure about the Value one is setting.
Kelvin is quite precise in that context. (Or should be).
Colour Temperature ... is not. Unless it is also indicated that it is in Kelvin. In which case why not name it Kelvin?
(Is Kelvin used consistently in different languages locales?)
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SFA, what are other units commonly used to define colour temperature?
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Ask an editing novice about that perhaps?
But then if there is only one scale of measure why not use its name?
Change for change's sake?
It's probably splitting hairs for this discussion in this context but there is also the possibility of the mired measurement that might be a factor to consider when using filter gels min some situations.
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What is the unit of "Tint"?
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What is the unit of "Tint"?
Good question. I've never seen units for tint in any software.
Ian
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B.O, good one :)
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Color temperature is the characteristic, but I think the term color temperature is only half of the truth.
If you increase the slider to higher values, the image becomes warmer. But a light source with a high Kelvin value actually means cooler.
So, the white balance tool is compensating the image output for an assumed light-source, maybe "Color Temperature Compensation" would be the correct term?
I like Kelvin, it is short and the tool has a slim user interface. But actually I don't mind so much.
However, a small visual indication of the two hue shifts (blue/yellow and green/magenta), but much more subtle as in Affinity, would aid in finding the right slider and direction easier (if you don't use the tool a lot).
Out of curiosity:
C1:
Affinity Photo:
GIMP:
How does it look in current PS and LR versions?
Cheers.
P.S. Yes, there is probably no general unit for "Tint" :-)
A "Tint" in color theory is a pure hue mixed with white. Then there are "tones" (mix with grey) and "shades" (mix with black). I actually have no clue how "Tint" made it into the WB terminology in photography for a hue shift towards either green or magenta.
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P.P.S. "Color Temperature of the light source[K]" makes totally sense too :-)
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Actually your screen shot of Affinity is a bit misleading. For RAW files (in Affinity's Develop persona) it shows Temperature in Kelvin. For a JPG in the Photo persona it shows a % value as in your screen shot.
Also, I understand your point about Colour Temperature Compensation, but I know of no photo software that calls it that. They mostly say Temperature or Colour Temperature and everyone knows what that means. A slider title like "Colour Temperature of the light source[K]" would be too unwieldy to fit neatly in the space available. I'm very happy with the current Kelvin label, but if it were to change I'd favour just Temperature perhaps with K added to the value as Affinity does.
Ian
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As I've written I am totally happy with just Kelvin, I don't want to see a long or super-correct term.
Good catch with Affinity.
(I don't use the develop persona (why should I?))
:-)
cheers
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No, I don't use it either, apart from trying it out of curiosity.
Ian
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Color temperature is the characteristic, but I think the term color temperature is only half of the truth.
If you increase the slider to higher values, the image becomes warmer. But a light source with a high Kelvin value actually means cooler.
In visual effects industry, by increasing the color temperature, we always mean making the image cooler.
Seeing a warmer image as I increase the color temperature (or Kelvin, for that matter) is counter-intuitive for me personally, but I guess Capture One can't go against the concept of, as you say, color temperature compensation, used in all the other photo editing software.How does it look in current PS and LR versions?
Here is how the slider looks in Lightroom:
I don't think that making Capture One more similar to Lightroom is beneficial, quite the opposite. But again, the realities of the business and expectations of the user base, including potential users, can't be ignored.Anyways, seeing the gradients in the sliders does help a lot!
P.S. Yes, there is probably no general unit for "Tint" :-)
A "Tint" in color theory is a pure hue mixed with white. Then there are "tones" (mix with grey) and "shades" (mix with black).
In my experience, tint mathematically is multiplication of each color channel's values by a certain factor in a way that overall luminance is preserved. As you increase the values of one or two channels, other two or one channel is equally decreased to compensate for the luminance change.
There can be no unit for it as it's pure algebra.
I actually have no clue how "Tint" made it into the WB terminology in photography for a hue shift towards either green or magenta.I suppose that since color wheel is two-dimensional, and color temperature offers only one axis, it was natural to add another parameter to let the users compensate for any possible color cast in one place.
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Very interesting.
I like "Temp", even shorter than "Kelvin" :-)
And I like the subtle slider color gradients, particularly when compared with AF. This could be a valuable enhancement, the terms are just cosmetics, in my eyes.
Yes I think you are right with your last paragraph, what I meant is the term "Tint" for this specific green/magenta color cast compensation.
Maybe it is just a word commonly used for colorizing something, in the English language.
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Yes I think you are right with your last paragraph, what I meant is the term "Tint" for this specific green/magenta color cast compensation.
Maybe it is just a word commonly used for colorizing something, in the English language.
For whatever reason, it seems to the the term universally used for this in pretty much all photo editing software, so it would just be confusing to change it.
Ian
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Yes I think you are right with your last paragraph, what I meant is the term "Tint" for this specific green/magenta color cast compensation.
For whatever reason, it seems to the the term universally used for this in pretty much all photo editing software, so it would just be confusing to change it.
Indeed, unlike in VFX software, in photo editing "Tint" is specifically used for green/magenta axis, and I'm absolutely fine with it, it seems intuitive.
I must say, I like Lightroom's sliders overall, with their subtlety and informativeness at the same time.
I'm risking to steal my own topic, but while we're on it, notice the gradients, pointy slider shape and white for adjusted parameters' values vs grayed out for default ones.
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