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Upgrade to 12 for better masking tools?

Chris Armstrong
Hello All,

I currently run C1 Pro 9.3 on a Mac - OS 10.13.6
I have been a C1 user since 1995 and frankly am loathe to upgrade when things are going well. I shoot products, mainly with Canon 5D Mark III.

I have recently found a need to use masking to help with the product spins I am now shooting and wonder if upgrading to the most current version will help with this. I am also new to using C1 masks so I have that learning curve ahead as well.

I have poked around on YouTube and the C1 Tutorials looking for help with the masking tools ( I still need to look more), but if anyone can provide some insights or links to masking tools that would be great.

I have included a link to a screen shot of a pretty typical issue. I use props and other things that appear in some of the shots as my table spins the product. The crop needs to remain square for all images. I want to mask out the unwanted clutter before I process the files.


One issue I want to clarify is what other issues I might run into running my cameras if I make this upgrade.

Many Thanks!
https://www.armstrongstudios.com/galleries/screen-shots
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  • SFA
    A different sort of "mask" would be required for that sort of work if I have understood your need correctly. (I assume you want to eliminate the grey item supporting the handle and the brick coloured items and possibly some of the shadow stuff.)


    What other software do you use at the moment?
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  • Chris Armstrong
    I use Photoshop CC 2019 and you are correct about the things I would ideally like to mask out.

    But my question is more of a two part issue....

    I know I can use the mask tool to clone unwanted things out. But in C1 9 I can't seem to get the cloning to work. I'm not necessarily trying to get a perfect mask, just a tidier image to send out for post production (they get paths and dust clean up by a service). So it would be great to see some tutorials specific to C 9.3

    In addition, I really want to understand if I'll run into issues with my OS and the cameras I am running if I upgrade to 12. I have no doubt the masking tools in the later version are probably better.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="Chris581" wrote:

    In addition, I really want to understand if I'll run into issues with my OS and the cameras I am running if I upgrade to 12. I have no doubt the masking tools in the later version are probably better.


    Hi Chris,

    C1 v12 needs at least Sierra (10.12.6), so you won't have any trouble using 10.13.
    And cameras are supported from a previous version to the next, and there shouldn't be neither trouble with that.
    Robert
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  • Chris Armstrong
    Thanks
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  • SFA
    Masking is more to do with defining the areas of the image that you wish to adjust then the way to make the adjustment.

    The possible exceptions would be the Clone method and the Heal method, both of which are specific stand alone types of layer.

    Neither are really intended to change large areas of an image although they can, technically.

    The problem would be that you would need an equally large and "blemish free" section of the image to copy from.

    That's not necessarily impossible but, really, not often common either.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Chris Armstrong
    I would be fine with using the mask tool to "clone" out the rigging and other things I feel make the image sloppy. I realize that masks are often used to make specific adjustments in areas of color, details in highlights/shadow etc. What I want to do is mush more about removing unwanted objects.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Chris581" wrote:
    I would be fine with using the mask tool to "clone" out the rigging and other things I feel make the image sloppy. I realize that masks are often used to make specific adjustments in areas of color, details in highlights/shadow etc. What I want to do is mush more about removing unwanted objects.


    Well, I''ll leave it to others with directly related experience of product shoots to offer their advice but realistically based on your sample photos and what you want to do with them I don't think there any any changes between V9 and V12 that would offer you much more than you already have available.

    I think if I was shooting the subject as per the example I would look for ways to minimise the visibility of the support block or at least make it easier to eliminate without disturbing the shadow line (which I sort of assume you may want to keep) and then use a larger base and eliminate the yellow/orange blocks from the shot - or at least make sure they were outside the square area you wish to crop to. I do understand that that might be easier to say than to do.

    for a square crop your top row left and centre look somewhat viable with a clone layer to eliminate the support and 3 may be possible along the same lines although the square crop could be marginal.

    Bottom row left looks very marginal and probably would not work out. The final to look like they require Photoshop or an equivalent.

    for consistency and simplicity one might be best to use a single process and one that works for the worst case. So the last two images would dictate what you would need to do.

    However, others may have a different opinion so don't take my word for it!


    Grant
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  • Chris Armstrong
    Thanks Grant, I am aware my set up was not ideal. I was in a rush and had only two spins to do. Had I needed to do many more I would certainly have been tidier about my set up. It just brought the whole masking tool thing to my attention.... "Am I underutilizing the tools C1 has to offer?" most definitely IMO.

    I was hoping this forum would answer two questions and so far it has answered one for sure - upgrading should cause no issues with my OS.

    As for the masking tools, I will keep looking for some tutorials so I can learn how best to use them for something simple like this. I was hoping for a link or two that might help me find the answers. I'll keep digging.
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  • SFA
    There are some Video Webinars in the Learning Hub.

    Here is one that may be of interest - it has a section on using a healing layer for example.

    There is at least one more on this and another about Luminosity masking that might possible have some utility for aspects of what you need to do.

    However the scale of replacement and so on that you have suggested you wish to undertake (as I understand it) may be more appropriately handled by a different type of tool.


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Chris Armstrong
    The clone tool would handle this process quite nicely. I have watched numerous tutorials on masking and found this one
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9890wrc2E

    Only problem is the tools and pallets just don't match up, which is why I feel upgrading is the next step.

    Thanks again 😊
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  • Chris Armstrong
    For anyone following this who might be interested. C1 9 *will* do what I need. After a bit more work I figured out the clone tool and was able to get the a large part of my image masked out using it.

    Here is another link to screen shots of how I did it:

    https://www.armstrongstudios.com/galleries/screen-shots

    I admit that it may not be the most efficient way to tackle this issue - shooting on a tidier set would definitely make more sense - but in some cases it's just nice to know there is an option.

    Now, for those out there who are working in C1 12 all the time, feel free to tell me what I am missing and why I should upgrade anyway 😊


    Thanks everyone for the discussion, I feel this forum definitely helped me to figure this out
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  • SFA
    Sorry, I forgot to put the link into my last post

    https://learn.captureone.com/webinars/l ... sterclass/

    There are a couple more webinars in the same section that will have some relevance to the subject.

    I also suspect that the answer to the upgrade question may be covered by the answer "Luminosity Masking" but depending on what cameras you use and whether you are into Applescript and a few other things there may be much more of interest.

    However Luminosity Masking may have some especially useful benefits for your needs.

    If you wish to see what has changed over the versions you can check the Release Notes here

    https://www.captureone.com/en/features/release-notes

    There is a link near the bottom of the page that will take you back to downloads for much older versions.

    I;m not quite sure what you mean by "the tools and pallets don't match up" in your earlier post.

    Perhaps the tool tabs and the list of tools in them?

    Yes this has changed and re-aligned a few times over the versions and some new tools nave been added.

    However you have control over what appears in the tabs to make them what you want them to be in the Workspace or Workspaces you find most efficient so where the tools may or may not appear is not especially significant in terms of determining whether to upgrade.

    In Mac world ( a little less significant perhaps in Windows world) operating system support for both Apple hardware and applications can be more of a driver for upgrade needs.

    The best answer would be to download V12 and run the trial to compare side by side. You should be able to do this without disturbing your V9 installation.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Chris Armstrong
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    I;m not quite sure what you mean by "the tools and pallets don't match up" in your earlier post.

    Perhaps the tool tabs and the list of tools in them?

    Yes this has changed and re-aligned a few times over the versions and some new tools nave been added.

    However you have control over what appears in the tabs to make them what you want them to be in the Workspace or Workspaces you find most efficient so where the tools may or may not appear is not especially significant in terms of determining whether to upgrade.

    Thanks Grant, Yes, I realize I can add, delete and move around the tools and have done so for years. The tutorial I was watching was a demo of C1 11 and the one tool I could not locate was the "Layer" tool, which appeared to be a separate pallet but was perhaps just called ""Local Adjustments" in earlier versions.

    Thanks for the links. I need to get a better grasp on the Luminosity Mask... Sometimes I get so busy with my comfortable workspace I forget to look up and learn new things.

    All the best!

    Chris
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  • Tom de Meadows
    In my opinion, the Luminosity tool (aka Luma range) is the best enhancement in C1 v12, it is probably the best enhancement for quite a long time. It allows to do certain things with masking that were impossible, at least with a good degree of fidelity, before, even using a tablet.

    But, it requires getting used to it.

    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [...]
    The possible exceptions would be the Clone method and the Heal method, both of which are specific stand alone types of layer.

    Neither are really intended to change large areas of an image although they can, technically.

    The problem would be that you would need an equally large and "blemish free" section of the image to copy from.

    That's not necessarily impossible but, really, not often common either.

    A problem the clone tool appears to have is that it requires a suitable blemish free section (as SFA wrote) with the same luminosity. If it does not have exactly the same luminosity both the clone and heal tools don't do such a good job. A way around this is to create 2 layers with the same mask, one to clone/heal and a 2nd one to compensate luminosity issues by darkening or brightening.

    If PhaseOne 1 were to enhance the cloning/heal tools they will have an even better product thus removing the need for Photoshop.
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