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C1 8.0.0 (and 8.0.1) exports crushing shadows

wparsons
Hi folks,

I'm running into a serious problem with C1 8 crushing shadows. I hadn't noticed it until working on the photo in the screenshots below, because there are a lot of dark tones where clean gradation is important. When I exported the image and opened it in Photoshop CC (both plain CC and CC 2014) and saw that the shadows were completely crushed.

Here's what I see in C1:


And here's what I get in PS (and Chrome, Windows Picture Viewer, etc.):


After spotting this, I checked a few other images, paying close attention to the shadows. Sure enough, the shadows blocked up noticeably when viewed in applications other than C1.

My display is recently calibrated, and I do not have this issue when exporting from Lightroom.

I'd really appreciate any help you folks can offer.

Thanks.
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24件のコメント

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  • Paul Spatafora
    Try saving them as TIFF and see if that helps. Also, what quality level are you saving the JPG's? Have you tried the shadow tool in the HDR section. It does a great job.

    Hope that helps.

    Paul
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  • Keith Reeder
    I can see more detail in the shadows in the first link than in the second - if anything I'd describe the latter image as having "crushed" shadows.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    [quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
    I can see more detail in the shadows in the first link than in the second - if anything I'd describe the latter image as having "crushed" shadows.

    I think that's what he's saying, Keith. It looks great in C1, but not so great once the jpg created by C1 is viewed in PS.

    Ian
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  • Christian Gruner
    Is the rendering intent set to the same in both application ?
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  • Keith Reeder
    Ah yes, Ian - the danger of "contributing" at 6 in the morning while dashing off to work!
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  • wparsons
    [quote="NNN635018233259472077" wrote:
    Try saving them as TIFF and see if that helps. Also, what quality level are you saving the JPG's? Have you tried the shadow tool in the HDR section. It does a great job.


    The PS screenshot is showing a TIFF. The export format has no impact on this issue, however. I've tried exporting in several formats, all with the same result.
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  • wparsons
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    Is the rendering intent set to the same in both application ?


    C1 is set to its default rendering intent of "Perceptual." The only rendering intent option I could find in PS was under Color Settings > Conversion Options. I switched it to Perceptual from its default and tried re-opening a new file in PS, but this had no effect on the problem.

    I was under the impression that the rendering intent setting in PS is only relevant when converting between profiles anyway.
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  • wparsons
    Also, how the heck do I change my username?

    Searching the forums only returned advice to change it on the main site, but the relevant option doesn't seem to be there anymore.
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="NN635452091640097360UL" wrote:
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    Is the rendering intent set to the same in both application ?


    C1 is set to its default rendering intent of "Perceptual." The only rendering intent option I could find in PS was under Color Settings > Conversion Options. I switched it to Perceptual from its default and tried re-opening a new file in PS, but this had no effect on the problem.

    I was under the impression that the rendering intent setting in PS is only relevant when converting between profiles anyway.


    Super,

    How about the Color Settings -> Color Management Policies ?
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  • wparsons
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    How about the Color Settings -> Color Management Policies ?


    All set to "Preserve Embedded" and "Ask when opening."
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    [quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
    Ah yes, Ian - the danger of "contributing" at 6 in the morning while dashing off to work!

    What is this 6 in the morning of which you speak? 😲

    Ian
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  • wparsons
    Anybody else have any ideas on this?
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="NN635452091640097360UL" wrote:


    My display is recently calibrated, and I do not have this issue when exporting from Lightroom.

    .

    What is the rendering intent set to in LR?
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  • wparsons
    [quote="Alex1111" wrote:
    What is the rendering intent set to in LR?


    Whatever the factory default is. I've never changed it.
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  • Robert Whetton
    have you tried exporting with the ICC Profile set to Embed Camera Profile?
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  • Filthy Lucre
    I don't know that this is valid since no raw conversion is taking place, but...

    I took your good jpg (C1 screenshot) and saved it, then opened it in C1 8.0 and exported as a psd to Photoshop CS6. The results were identical, meaning the export matched the original. FWIW, I exported a low key raw image and saw no shadow blocking on it either.

    http://www.howardowen.net/img/s12/v173/p2878729-4.jpg

    I'd be happy to share any other C1 settings if someone can tell me where they reside (newbie here). 😊
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  • wparsons
    [quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
    have you tried exporting with the ICC Profile set to Embed Camera Profile?


    Yep, tried this. It had no visible effect.
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  • wparsons
    [quote="PhaseoneUser40673" wrote:
    I don't know that this is valid since no raw conversion is taking place, but...

    I took your good jpg (C1 screenshot) and saved it, then opened it in C1 8.0 and exported as a psd to Photoshop CS6. The results were identical, meaning the export matched the original. FWIW, I exported a low key raw image and saw no shadow blocking on it either.

    I'd be happy to share any other C1 settings if someone can tell me where they reside (newbie here). 😊


    Thanks for taking the trouble to help me diagnose this issue. It did cause me to attempt exporting as a PSD (something I hadn't tried before), but sadly this has no effect on the problem.
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  • wparsons
    So the problem is definitely specific to C1. I opened my screenshots from my first post in C1, and they are noticeably lighter in tone than when viewed in any other application.

    As a further test, I took another screenshot of my previous screenshot opened in C1. Then I opened this in C1, and it was lighter still.

    I'm not sure why, but C1 is rendering tones significantly lighter than my other applications.

    Any help you folks can offer now would be greatly appreciated.
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  • wparsons
    Some more data:

    Switching Proof Profile (View > Proof Profile) from its default of "Selected Recipe" to "No Proof Profile" results in a match between C1 and PS that is about 99.5% accurate. I'm putting differences here down to variations in the rendering engines between the two programs.

    Now here's where it gets weird: If I switch back to "Selected Recipe" and then select "No Proof Profile" once again, the tones update, and then shift slightly lighter again after a moment, resulting in a tonal mismatch between C1 and PS once again. The way I've found to remedy this is by selecting some other proof profile that is vastly different from what I want (one of the Coated CMYK profiles, for example), and then switching once again to "No Proof Profile," in which case my choice sticks, even after quitting and reopening C1.

    So, this leaves me with a couple questions:

    1. Should the "default" of "Selected Recipe" under Proof Profile be giving me inaccurate tones? I would assume not.

    2. Am I safe in working with "No Proof Profile" always selected? My inclination is that it's fine, especially since my destination after C1 is nearly always Photoshop for finishing work.

    And this also seems to have surfaced at least one, maybe two, bugs in this version of C1.

    1. Selecting "No Proof Profile" should definitely not behave differently based on the profile you have selected immediately prior.

    2. If the answer to my first question above is "No," then there is a problem with the default Proof Profile.
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  • SFA
    What profile do you have set in the Process recipe?

    The effects look very much like those one gets from accidental double processing of a colour profile (but in your case viewed in monochrome.)



    Grant
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  • wparsons
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    What profile do you have set in the Process recipe?


    I've tried several: ProPhoto RBG, Adobe RGB, sRGB, Embed Camera Profile. No setting I tried here made any difference in the issue itself.

    Thanks.
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  • dee jjjaaaa
    google bpc (black point compensation)
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  • Oorlin
    I solved the problem by setting OpenCL Processing to Never.
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