CO 7 Express someday?
Hi, do you have planned to release CO7 on express version?
thanks.
thanks.
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From what I have understood the Express edition ends with CO6. For an official and authoritative answer, contact Phase One directly in a support case. 0 -
No Paul, if Phase One has - arbitrarily and without any prior warning - pulled the plug on Express, they can make a formal announcement about it instead of sneakily killing it off and hoping that nobody will notice or make a fuss about its demise.
To do anything else is completely disrespectful to Express users who are now left high and dry for an upgrade path without even the simple courtesy of a formal indication that this is the case.
Many users simply have no need for the extra functionality in Pro over Express, and frankly the current upgrade "special price" (I can save 30 Euros. Big deal - I'll still be paying £200 with VAT, which is massively more expensive that any other converter available today) isn't nearly enough of a temptation to make the step to Pro 7, especially when in terms of IQ improvements from 6 to 7, Phase One is again promising more than it delivers - new bells and whistles as usual, but the chequerboard demosaicing artefact is still there in the new engine; and highlight recovery is still completely outclassed by Lightroom, and now by new converter Photo Ninja.
I've done a significant number of Capture One 6/7 side-by-side conversions in the last couple of days, and tried a number of images that Capture One 6 did a poor job on, and there's no appreciable image quality improvement whatsoever between the two. None. Cap One Pro 7 still can't recover highlight detail the way Lr and Photo Ninja can do trivially easy; high ISOs still result in an acceptable trade-off between detail and noise; and that damned cross-hatch artefact stilll appears. I can see no worthwhile improvements from the "new" engine at all, and frankly I strongly doubt there's anything new about it.
I suppose this is what we've come to expect from Phase One. It comes to something though, when even Adobe treats its customers with more integrity and honesty than Phase One.0 -
I think that capture one it's the best Raw processing software today, but i don't need many of the features on capture one pro, and sure i will not pay to upgrade from version 6 express to 7 pro. If PO release a version of CO 7 express surely i will pay for the upgrade, anyway.
and i think that many user's will be in the same situation.
Well, i will contact PO with a support case for more info.
thanks a lot.0 -
I downloaded the trial version but it won't load. I get an error message that says "You must re-load the program". Then, it flashes a little and then nothing. Since it installed over Version 6 (first time ever for that), now I have nothing.
PO should publish a book on how to alienate long-standing customers (back to version 4), especially one's that recommend their software to workshop students for 3 years. $250 for a RAW converter? Are you kidding me?0 -
[quote="Phil12" wrote:
...
Since it installed over Version 6 (first time ever for that), now I have nothing.
That is strange. I have CO6 and 7 installed into their default locations on Win 7 x64:
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 6
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 7
What OS are you using and what is the folder CO7 is installed into?0 -
[quote="Paul_E" wrote:
[quote="Phil12" wrote:
...
Since it installed over Version 6 (first time ever for that), now I have nothing.
That is strange. I have CO6 and 7 installed into their default locations on Win 7 x64:
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 6
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 7
What OS are you using and what is the folder CO7 is installed into?
I'm on a MacBook Pro, 8,2 April 2011. 16 gigs or RAM. OS 10.6 and I have no idea what folder it installed itself into.0 -
I don't want to go off topic. I can't find ways to directly email Mr. Reeder from his website. [quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
I've done a significant number of Capture One 6/7 side-by-side conversions in the last couple of days, and tried a number of images that Capture One 6 did a poor job on, and there's no appreciable image quality improvement whatsoever between the two. None. Cap One Pro 7 still can't recover highlight detail the way Lr and Photo Ninja can do trivially easy; high ISOs still result in an acceptable trade-off between detail and noise; and that damned cross-hatch artefact stilll appears. I can see no worthwhile improvements from the "new" engine at all, and frankly I strongly doubt there's anything new about it.
I merely wanted to join and express my concurrence regarding the new HDR look in C1PRO7. I have a love/hate relationship with the new look. It works when it works. I mostly photography my subjects in front of a dark grey seamless Savage brand paper and even at low values of Clarity (say 30), the new version 7 introduced a dreadful glob in the interfacing region between subject and dark grey background paper.0 -
I wanted to join in and support your endeavor; I don't think it would be fair for P1 to "force" express users to upgrade to 7 PRO when the features in version 7 are irrelevant to express users. Before I was a PRO license user, the first software I bought from P1 was the Version 4 Express. At the time, I couldn't afford to guy their 3.7.8 PRO license (USD 500). I saved up until I could upgrade, BECAUSE I found 4 Express lacking in features. t makes no sense for Express users to upgrade if the PRO features are useless in the Express users' workflows! [quote="NN124869UL2" wrote:
Hi, do you have planned to release CO7 on express version?
thanks.0 -
[quote="Phil12" wrote:
[quote="Paul_E" wrote:
[quote="Phil12" wrote:
...
Since it installed over Version 6 (first time ever for that), now I have nothing.
That is strange. I have CO6 and 7 installed into their default locations on Win 7 x64:
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 6
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 7
What OS are you using and what is the folder CO7 is installed into?
I'm on a MacBook Pro, 8,2 April 2011. 16 gigs or RAM. OS 10.6 and I have no idea what folder it installed itself into.
Phil,
Have you also looked in the thread for Mac installations rather than the Windows installations thread?0 -
[quote="Phil12" wrote:
[quote="Paul_E" wrote:
[quote="Phil12" wrote:
...
Since it installed over Version 6 (first time ever for that), now I have nothing.
That is strange. I have CO6 and 7 installed into their default locations on Win 7 x64:
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 6
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 7
What OS are you using and what is the folder CO7 is installed into?
I'm on a MacBook Pro, 8,2 April 2011. 16 gigs or RAM. OS 10.6 and I have no idea what folder it installed itself into.
Phil,
I suggest next time you post in the Mac forum, that prevents a lot of confusion. You will find there answer to your question as well, as this is discussed several times already.0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
No Paul, if Phase One has - arbitrarily and without any prior warning - pulled the plug on Express, they can make a formal announcement about it instead of sneakily killing it off and hoping that nobody will notice or make a fuss about its demise.
Keith,
I don't think you will find anywhere in our documentation that we intend to suddenly 'kill' Capture One Express. Its still available today. Or perhaps you could consider we might have other options as well to serve the express community in the future?
David0 -
[quote="Phil12" wrote:
[quote="Paul_E" wrote:
[quote="Phil12" wrote:
...
Since it installed over Version 6 (first time ever for that), now I have nothing.
That is strange. I have CO6 and 7 installed into their default locations on Win 7 x64:
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 6
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 7
What OS are you using and what is the folder CO7 is installed into?
I'm on a MacBook Pro, 8,2 April 2011. 16 gigs or RAM. OS 10.6 and I have no idea what folder it installed itself into.
Hi Phil,
When you expand the .dmg download file, a popup window suggest you transfer the App to the Applications folder. It doesn't really get much simpler than that?
In the future, perhaps make a folder for the older or newer copy of Capture One before copying into the Applications folder.
You could also grab version 6 from your Time Machine backup.
David0 -
[quote="David Grover" wrote:
I don't think you will find anywhere in our documentation that we intend to suddenly 'kill' Capture One Express. Its still available today.
Yeah, you really should have included this from my earlier post too, David - this is my point:To do anything else is completely disrespectful to Express users who are now left high and dry for an upgrade path
All the user community knows, right now, is that there's no Capture One 7 Express, and no indication that there will be one - there's nothing in your documentation, full stop - or "period", if you're so inclined.
If you don't communicate with your customers (even the "little guys" who use Express), we're going to guess and to assume, and it should be no surprise that we might do that, nor should it be a surprise that assume the worst...Or perhaps you could consider we might have other options as well to serve the express community in the future?
What possible reason is there for me to consider that? Because Phase One are nice guys who won't lets their customers down?
If you'd really wanted to prevent this sort of thread, you could have announced, the day 7 Pro was announced, that Express users should be patient because something was coming for them too. But you didn't, and frankly that kind of silence speaks volumes.
You could even have simply come up with an Express-to-Pro upgrade price that wasn't an absolute joke: it'll cost me £200 UK to upgrade - that's $320 US as of right now.
I mean - seriously? Cap One 7 ain't that good. Not by a long shot0 -
[quote="David Grover" wrote:
Keith,
I don't think you will find anywhere in our documentation that we intend to suddenly 'kill' Capture One Express. Its still available today. Or perhaps you could consider we might have other options as well to serve the express community in the future?
David
The question still stands though, is a CO7 Express version forthcoming in any shape or form?0 -
Well, David?
Are you going to break Phase One's own rules about pre-announcing and tell us what's coming for Express users? Or is your "perhaps you should consider..." comment nothing more than an attempt to forestall the discussion?0 -
Yeah, that's what I thought... 0 -
Add cameras to 6 express, kill backwards compatibility with 6, and they could call it 7 express. 🙄 0 -
Some food for thought...
It cost me £14, including tax, to upgrade from Bibble 5 to AfterShot Pro.
It cost me £60, including tax, to upgrade from Lightroom 3 to Lightroom 4.
Remember that nominally, both AfterShot Pro and Lightroom are functionally equivalent to Capture One Pro - no cut-down versions here.
My discounted, "loyal customer" (hah!) upgrade from Cap One Express 6 to Cap One Pro 7 - the only upgrade choice I have, apparently - will cost me £200 including tax.
That's $318/€250 at today's rate...
For an upgrade. To software that's functionally no better than Lightroom, currently unusable compared to Lightroom, and which in IQ terms brings no benefits over Lightroom.0 -
I fear, CO is just for PhaseOne- and Mamiya-Users one day . 🙄
What I didn't understand: If AfterShot Pro or Lightroom is the same like C1 Pro for you and cheaper, why don't you buy it and be happy? It is not a religion. Take the software which work best for you for the price you want to pay or leave it. If there are not enough customers, which will pay for it, maybe it become cheaper.
BTW: Adobe is not famous to have cheap products. 🙄 I am shure, when there are no C1, Bibble/AfterShot Pro on the market, the price will change rapidly. 😁0 -
AfterShot Pro is terrible. Lightroom is excellent, but I simply prefer converters to be just converters, which is why I've always liked Express.
I'm about as "converter agnostic" as it's possible to be - my current favourite is Photo Ninja, and part of its appeal is (like with Express) the lack of cataloguing and selective adjustments (Photoshop is night-and-day better for this last purpose than any converter will ever be) but I've long been a big fan of Capture One's colour rendition, and I simply resent Phase One's attempt to force me and other Express users into upgrading at ridiculous cost by - as far as any of us can tell - denying us a Capture One Express 7 upgrade path.0 -
[quote="Wolfram32" wrote:
BTW: Adobe is not famous to have cheap products. 🙄 I am shure, when there are no C1, Bibble/AfterShot Pro on the market, the price will change rapidly. 😁
I don't understand your logic here. By the same token C1 might be even more expensive if it held a total monopoly too. And you can speculate all you like, but as things stand then LR is a cheaper by a huge margin. No, Adobe aren't renowned for being cheap but they do what every other company wants to do, charge what they can reasonably get away with.
Competition is indeed a good thing, and i'm quite happy to support the little guy. I've used CO in its Lite/Express guise since about v3.7. I was a beta tester for Aftershot Pro (which i'm not a personal fan of, even if its quite capable in most areas). However, that support isn't unconditional and depends on good product at a sensible price.
I suspect your first point though that CO is possibly destined to become a tool aimed solely at the MF niche is plausible.0 -
[quote="bigfatron" wrote:
I suspect your first point though that CO is possibly destined to become a tool aimed solely at the MF niche is plausible.
Which is fine of course, but if so, Phase One need to be up front about the intended lifespan of their products - this isn't like asking when camera xyz will be supported, and even Microsoft issues End Of Life announcements about its software in good time for users to react appropriately.
It's something when Microsoft is held up as an example of (comparatively) good customer service practices...0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
[quote="bigfatron" wrote:
I suspect your first point though that CO is possibly destined to become a tool aimed solely at the MF niche is plausible.
Which is fine of course, but if so, Phase One need to be up front about the intended lifespan of their products - this isn't like asking when camera *censored word* will be supported, and even Microsoft issues End Of Life announcements about its software in good time for users to react appropriately.
It's something when Microsoft is held up as an example of (comparatively) good customer service practices...
I quite agree with all of that Keith. A bit of information on future direction (and maybe even pricing) would indeed be great.0 -
[quote="bigfatron" wrote:
Competition is indeed a good thing, and i'm quite happy to support the little guy.
Sorry for my "bad english". Don't understand me wrong, I prefer to support a little guy and pay more for there work than a big guy (adobe) and pay less, but there always be a danger of Monopol. That's why I decide years ago to buy the Pro-Version, even if the prize shock me first. Even if the first versions of the software is buggy sometimes, I don't regret it until now.
BTW: They give us a 60 (!) day full functional Demo to test it and the result is a nonstop complaining. 🙄0 -
[quote="Wolfram32" wrote:
BTW: They give us a 60 (!) day full functional Demo to test it and the result is a nonstop complaining. 🙄
Well yes - but isn't that the point of a test period?0 -
[quote="Wolfram32" wrote:
What I didn't understand: If AfterShot Pro or Lightroom is the same like C1 Pro for you and cheaper, why don't you buy it and be happy?
Because when you've used software for 5 years (in my case) and you've been a loyal customer and played by the rules and payed for updates you don't want to have to learn a whole new software package just because PO got greedy and threw the Express users to the roadside. It's insulting. Trust me, CO is going to start showing up on warez sites and the bootlegging will be rampant, and PO will have no one to blame but themselves. This kind of disregard for a huge segment of their customer base is not doing the software industry any good whatsoever. How can you cultivate respect for non-piracy when you treat your customer with so much disregard?0 -
[quote="Phil12" wrote:
Because when you've used software for 5 years (in my case) and you've been a loyal customer and played by the rules and payed for updates you don't want to have to learn a whole new software package just because PO got greedy and threw the Express users to the roadside. It's insulting. Trust me, CO is going to start showing up on warez sites and the bootlegging will be rampant, and PO will have no one to blame but themselves. This kind of disregard for a huge segment of their customer base is not doing the software industry any good whatsoever. How can you cultivate respect for non-piracy when you treat your customer with so much disregard?
I didn't understand PhaseOne software-politic either and my guess is, that there are just a view persons who develop this software. For Mac and Windows (7, 8, etc.). More version, more cameras, more Software (Media Pro), more bugs, ... I'm not sure, how many money P1 are earning, but maybe they run in the limitation of software-developing. When I see all this different Windows-Machines with different Hardware (videocard), different drivers, different update-state of windows: they just don't have enough manpower to solve all this problems.
At least: CO 6 express stop working? Use it, as long at it can handle your files. And to learn something new is not really a point. 😉 And there are freeware, which can handle RAW-Files quite well; there is no need to go to warez-sides. 🤬 Just take the software, your camera come with.0 -
[quote="Wolfram32" wrote:
[quote="Phil12" wrote:
Because when you've used software for 5 years (in my case) and you've been a loyal customer and played by the rules and payed for updates you don't want to have to learn a whole new software package just because PO got greedy and threw the Express users to the roadside. It's insulting. Trust me, CO is going to start showing up on warez sites and the bootlegging will be rampant, and PO will have no one to blame but themselves. This kind of disregard for a huge segment of their customer base is not doing the software industry any good whatsoever. How can you cultivate respect for non-piracy when you treat your customer with so much disregard?
I didn't understand PhaseOne software-politic either and my guess is, that there are just a view persons who develop this software. For Mac and Windows (7, 8, etc.). More version, more cameras, more Software (Media Pro), more bugs, ... I'm not sure, how many money P1 are earning, but maybe they run in the limitation of software-developing. When I see all this different Windows-Machines with different Hardware (videocard), different drivers, different update-state of windows: they just don't have enough manpower to solve all this problems.
At least: CO 6 express stop working? Use it, as long at it can handle your files. And to learn something new is not really a point. 😉 And there are freeware, which can handle RAW-Files quite well; there is no need to go to warez-sides. 🤬 Just take the software, your camera come with.
With all due respect,Wolfram, it's the corporate attitude that is the problem. Consider the 30-day limitation on upgrades to a new version from buying the old version (WAY too short), making Express users pay a HUGE premium to continue to stay current on the product and pay for features many people just don't need. And all with NO warning whatsoever. It's completely disrespectful of their longtime customer base and not good business. It has nothing to do with the technical problems the software is having (never mind this is bad enough). It's not good for the customer, it's not good for PO and it's not good for the software industry as a whole.
Parenthetically, it's interesting to note that PO has made no attempt to explain it's radical policy on this subject anywhere that I have seen on this board. Another confirmation that PO has no regard for it's customer at all.0 -
[quote="Wolfram32" wrote:
[quote="bigfatron" wrote:
Competition is indeed a good thing, and i'm quite happy to support the little guy.
Sorry for my "bad english". Don't understand me wrong, I prefer to support a little guy and pay more for there work than a big guy (adobe) and pay less, but there always be a danger of Monopol. That's why I decide years ago to buy the Pro-Version, even if the prize shock me first. Even if the first versions of the software is buggy sometimes, I don't regret it until now.
I agree with you but only to a point. I think the price of the products has to be at least similar. I'd previously stuck with the upgrade path with Capture One because it was competitively priced versus Lightroom at the time. If there is no Express version going forward and current pricing is indicative then I doubt I will stick with it once Capture One 6 either doesn't support whatever camera I have or the likes of Lightroom offer a superior experience to justify switching camps.BTW: They give us a 60 (!) day full functional Demo to test it and the result is a nonstop complaining. 🙄
The prohibative upgrade price alone means I won't be going to the full Capture One 7 product, so a time-limited demo is of little interest. Plus other user feedback suggests the initial release of version 7 is as full of teething problems as the first releases of v5 and v6 were.0 -
Lightroom is aggressively prized, not just for a RAW-Konverter, but also for a DAM-Software. This prizing worries me, because I know that a lot of users switch to this software and small "solutions" get trouble. But who can really endure a competition with Adobe? It is currently the same like the competition between intel and AMD.
Look in the photo-forums; there are sub-forums just for LR and -maybe- one thread for C1. Maybe the amount of users which already bought CO 6 express is much to small, compared to CO 1 PRO. ❓0
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