Preview of RAW imports turns darker after a few seconds - ?
Files look "normal" in File Explorer, and after selecting and then importing into P1 9, they look normal for a second or so then turn darker, one by one.
Importing .ARW files from Sony A7R2. Latest phase one version. Don't remember this being the case ever before. Usually the raw files look about like the .jpg in terms of overall light level / exposure. Now all my imports look about 3 stops darker. Can't see any adjustments showing, and doesn't matter if I check or uncheck "import with adjustments" box. There are no existing adjustments as they are straight from memory card.
Anybody know how this started?
Importing .ARW files from Sony A7R2. Latest phase one version. Don't remember this being the case ever before. Usually the raw files look about like the .jpg in terms of overall light level / exposure. Now all my imports look about 3 stops darker. Can't see any adjustments showing, and doesn't matter if I check or uncheck "import with adjustments" box. There are no existing adjustments as they are straight from memory card.
Anybody know how this started?
0
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Have you been experimenting with process recipes or proof profiles recently?
Have you upgraded anything on your system - Windows for example?
Anything different about the possible use of a graphics card in your system? Driver updates for example?
Let's start there and see if that prompts any ideas.
Grant0 -
Thanks - no to all unless Windows updated my graphics card automatically.
The odd thing is that as the small previews start to appear on import of the .ARW files, they are fine. It's only 1 second or so after each preview shows up that it turns darker.
I can import the .jpg versions of the same files and they are fine.
Just started last night.0 -
One of the first things to eliminate then would be the GPU/driver.
You can do that by setting the Preferences for Hardware Acceleration to "Never".
Only takes a second or two and may provide some guidance about what is going on.
Grant0 -
jcl100,
Just to be sure, are you talking about the previews in the viewer or the thumbnails in the browser?
Can you click on Reset adjustments for one of the images and see what happens?
In the import dialog, did you check "Auto adjust" or have a Style or Preset selected?0 -
Thanks - tried that (graphics card accel vs CPU) also, makes no difference. Yes - I've unchecked the adjustments in import (only the "apply previous adjustments" was checked, but I unchecked it - no diff). No styles etc...
Brief screen clip of what it is doing - doesn't look like much in the clip but it is significant and not right.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1oh563idxhajp ... p.mp4?dl=00 -
Are you positive you haven't defined defaults for your camera in any tool? 0 -
It happens when the preview is generated. Looks a bit like lens correction to me. Can you check the setting in lens correction? 0 -
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
Are you positive you haven't defined defaults for your camera in any tool?
yep. jcl, can you check the "base characteristics"?0 -
As it's on import is that not just a matter of the RAW conversion kicking in?
It may well look very different, especially something based on what is quite a bright and light image.
Auto Adjust perhaps?
Or is there some in camera adjustment applied to the jpg that is not available when the RAW is processed?
And yes, lens correction possibly - or maybe lack of it?
Grant0 -
Thanks to all for suggestions.
Tried all of those things to no avail.
A little quick experimenting seems to indicate that if I shoot a "normal" type exposure (about what the camera would pick on Auto) the difference between the import and the .jpg or Explorer preview and imported thumbnail is very small. If i purposely underexpose the shot by 2-4 stops, I see a much larger darkening in the ARW / Raw file compared to the .jpg.
Checked in Lightroom just to see - same thing is happening there. I rarely use LR but it is behaving the same way so it is something in the file I presume.
I underexpose things all the time and have not noticed this - in fact that is one of the things I like about mirrorless is realtime exposure monitoring (sunsets etc...).
A quick check of the LR forums indicates that the initial "quick load" of the preview uses an embedded .JPG within the RAW file and then once fully loaded applies the camera curve or whatever adjustments you've set in LR, or C1 in this case. This sounds logical, but not sure why I'm all of a sudden seeing this.
I may reformat the SD card and re-check the camera's settings - very odd !0 -
May be on to something...
DRO or Dynamic Range Optimizer in Sony camera settings (I've left "on, auto"). Basically brings up shadows if you have some very bright areas (sky etc...) seems to be the culprit. This has no effect on the RAW files, but does on the .JPG. So, these underexposed dark areas with sun / sky that I'm exposing for appears lighter in the EVF of the camera, and in Explorer, and for a brief second upon import, before the "raw" RAW is displayed (w/out the DRO manipulation the .jpg had).
Don't know why I'm just noticing this, because I shoot this way all the time and I've never noticed much difference between .jpg and raw in terms of exposure. I'll need to go back and look at some older files and see, but I can now import a RAW file that looks just like the jpg, with no darkening upon import if I turn off DRO in camera.
So solved I guess, but maybe somehow the cam was applying DRO settings to RAW before? This is basic stuff (exposure) and easy to notice - I'm sure I would have noticed this before now.0 -
[quote="jcl100" wrote:
A quick check of the LR forums indicates that the initial "quick load" of the preview uses an embedded .JPG within the RAW file and then once fully loaded applies the camera curve or whatever adjustments you've set in LR, or C1 in this case.
Yep. I should have mentioned it but I thought you knew about it and had already ruled it out. Sorry.0 -
Hi,
I'm not sure if I understood correctly the problem.
But on first opening of new files C1 shows, at first, the embedded (small) JPG and as the programm advances in the creation of its own previews the look may change to a smaller or greater amount according to C1's "interpretation" of the RAW data as well as profile used on import. That way C1 may "interpret" the exposure data from the RAW file differently as it may be shown at the first moment. It needs to be remembered that the embedded JPG in the RAW data was created by the camera and possible camera settings (including DRO, contrast, saturation etc.) may have had an effect on the creation in camera of this embedded JPG. However those settings have no effect on the RAW data so the look may be different. Another change of the "look" may happen according to the lens profile / corrections executed on import by C1 - or not if C1 doesn't have a profile in its database for the used lens.
Hope this helps.0 -
Michael11 - thanks - that's exactly what I concluded was happening. The only setting I have on camera that really changes anything major apparently is DRO, and that all depends on how contrasty the scene is. So I guess I've had this "issue" all along but just now noticed it, as I was importing some contrasty images.
Thanks for all the info by all.0 -
Please bear in mind that the look of the previews is this, it's C1's "interpretation" of the RAW data as it was recorded by the camera. And such, the starting point for editing, adjusting. If the lighting was contrasty then some reduction of overall contrast may be helpfull. Or some highlight recovery necessary. Or you start by simply hitting the "A" button in the top right section for "Auto Adjust" to see what corrections C1 suggests - as a staring point for further adjustments. 0 -
I am getting a similar problem.
Images look normal before import and on any other viewer/devices, but when the previews are created in Capture One the colours turn really dull and aren't very accurate. When I output the image it then looks ok again on other viewers/devices.
I am also using A7Rii, C1 9.1 Sony Pro, Windows 7 64bit and Nvidia K4000.
I tried changing graphics driver and reinstalling C1 but no change.
Installed C1 on an old slow computer and colours all seem to be fine....so what is going on?
Help!0 -
How is your "Proof Profile" option set?
For your output routine - what profile to you have set there?
Bear in mind that before import what you are seeing is not a RAW interpretation by C1 but the camera processed jpg embedded in the RAW file to act as a thumbnail. However that does not appear to explain a large difference between what you see on screen as a RAW in progress and the results of the export from RAW to jpg. Hence the questions.
Grant0 -
Camera curves set to Linear response? 0 -
Hi Wesley,
is this a question in your last post? If so and if you have set (changed) to Linear Response as your profile for your RAW files, then yes, indeed, your images will look flat on your screen w/o any adjustments applied.
I for myself have found the default profile (according to camera model) sometimes a bit on the too contrasty side and for some few images I've started edition by first changing to Linear response. Nothing wrong with that. It's just that the images then lokk flat and dull and need larger amounts of the different adjustment parameters to get back to a look closer to the camera model default profile.0 -
Hi, Thanks for the replies -
Proof profile is set to selected recipe - I've switched between the defaults (sRGB & Adobe) and created a custom, but they generally all look quite similar.
Output is generally Jpg sRGB/Adobe
ICC is set to Sony A7RM2 - Generic
Curve - Auto
These are the defaults, can you adjust these parameters before import?
If I change to Linear Response during editing it goes really dull and flat.
Also I'm using Dell 2713H monitor set to pre calibrated sRGB profile, wouldn't think that would make any difference.
I've uploaded screen grabs so you can see test images -
Left image is the RAW file (ARW)
The background is what I see in Capture One
The right image is the output Jpg file (No adjustments)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/103 ... le%20A.jpg
I know the left/right images are using the Windows Photo Viewer, but it actually gives accurate color and is similar to what I see in camera, mobile devices, Lightroom and reality.
I guess the reds are the worst, but it really is impossible/pointless to make adjustments in C1 when there such a difference in colors...so when it I adjust and make it look realistic in C1 output is generally over saturated.
I have spoken to technical support and they responded with just C1 is a color managed application. I have emailed a couple other times with further info and I have heard nothing. Very disappointing and unhelpful.
I have just installed a trial of Lightroom and images look great and accurate...should I move across then, shame as I spent money for C1 Pro and time learning it.0 -
Hi Lewis,
The windows photo viewer is not color managed, i.e. it cannot use an embedded icc profile. Also, it tends to show jpgs a bit darker/more contrasty than C1 or Firefox, in my experience.
I suggest to
0. set Proof profile to selected recipe (as you did)
1. Try to solve the issue with sRGB first. No AdobeRGB and no custom profile.
2. Use Firefox as your viewer of processed jpgs.
3. http://www.color-management-guide.com/w ... ement.html
Hope this helps.
BeO0 -
Thanks
Yes totally understand windows photo viewer isn't color managed...but I don't think it is that far off...so I just used it for a quick side by side comparison.
The output from C1 seems ok, it's just the images that I view inside C1 that look really dull and don't seem to match reality or the output files.
Feels like there are issues with the ICC or Proof profiles...but I've tried changing them and I can't find a good match.
Could my PC be overriding some of these settings? Or maybe it's the original RAW and how it imports (as per original problem on this post)?
Checking Lightroom again, images are looking good...but sometimes when you flick through them quickly they do seem dull for a brief second and then they flip to a more realistic color (I guess color management kicking in)...I'm using the Camera Standard profile rather than the Adobe Standard, which seems to be more accurate.0 -
Hi Lewis,
Did you try Firefox and a recipe with sRGB? Just t obe sure it is not the Photo Viewer.
If this doesn't help can you provide one of the three raw files?
Cheers
BeO0
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