Issues with Media Pro/Capture One handoff's
So I've loaded folders from my Raid Drive into Media Pro and I can view my images in Media Pro just fine. I have watched all the videos I could find and I have set my Preferences in Both Media Pro and Capture One according to the videos I've found on the Phase One site.
So far I have 3 issues that are making this hard to work with and I'm sure I'm missing a setting somewhere on most of these.
In Capture One, part of my workflow is to flag items during each session (I delete all the unflagged items). Then, I will move the whole session folder to the drive I intend to archive it in. Once the entire session folder is in the preferred drive, THEN I will select File>Import Items>From Files/Folders in Media Pro and add the session folder. At this point, I can see the folder and it's contents in Media Pro just fine. I can also manipulate the catalog fields and create any type of sorting I desire.
The problems are:
1. While I CAN see the flags in Media Pro that were originally created on Capture One7, if I change that flag, make a new flag, or add Stars to a file, I CAN'T see any of those changes if I re-open that Session in Capture One7.
2. If I right click a single image in Media Pro and select Open With>Capture One 7.7.x, The image does not properly open in CO7 (at least like I think it should). Randomly, I've seen the image try to open under a different (recently opened session) even though I've verified that NO sessions were currently opened when I did this. The other, more frequent occurrence is that in Media Pro I right click an image, select Open With>Capture One 7.7.x, Capture One triggers but only opens a "recents" window that prompts me to Browse, or create a new session. What am I doing wrong that Capture One doesn't provide me a window with the image in which to work?
3. In Media Pro, when I right-click and select Open With>Default Application, the Default Application is Photoshop. I cannot find a preference with which to change that "Default Application" to be Capture One7.
Here are the settings that I've set in case that helps:
Media Pro:
-Media Rendering>RAW> Preferred Engine "Phase One", "Rendering" is set to "In Background for Large Images", "Use Embedded Preview" is checked, and Photo CD Size is set to "Large".
Capture One 7:
GENERAL SETTINGS:
"Media Pro"
-"Always Overwrite Metadata",
-"Ask When Syncing Catalog Sets"
-"Ask about Including Subfolders when Adding"
IMAGE SETTINGS:
-EIP Packing: Both boxes are unchecked currently
-"Default Processing Engine" is set to Capture One 7
-Metadata> Auto Sync Sidecar XMP is set to "Full Sync"
-Prefer Embedded XMP over Embedded IPTC is Checked
-Prefer Sidecar XMP over Embedded Metadata is Checked
I hope this is enough information to begin troubleshooting. Please help. I'm extremely pleased with the concept of Media Pro and my workflow needs this program to work more than ever. I'm moving away from Adobe as much as possible when the Creative Cloud is forced and I'll be fully reliant on Capture One, Media Pro, and Standalone editing plugins for my work.
Chawn Crawley
315.326.1155
chawn@chawncrawley.com
So far I have 3 issues that are making this hard to work with and I'm sure I'm missing a setting somewhere on most of these.
In Capture One, part of my workflow is to flag items during each session (I delete all the unflagged items). Then, I will move the whole session folder to the drive I intend to archive it in. Once the entire session folder is in the preferred drive, THEN I will select File>Import Items>From Files/Folders in Media Pro and add the session folder. At this point, I can see the folder and it's contents in Media Pro just fine. I can also manipulate the catalog fields and create any type of sorting I desire.
The problems are:
1. While I CAN see the flags in Media Pro that were originally created on Capture One7, if I change that flag, make a new flag, or add Stars to a file, I CAN'T see any of those changes if I re-open that Session in Capture One7.
2. If I right click a single image in Media Pro and select Open With>Capture One 7.7.x, The image does not properly open in CO7 (at least like I think it should). Randomly, I've seen the image try to open under a different (recently opened session) even though I've verified that NO sessions were currently opened when I did this. The other, more frequent occurrence is that in Media Pro I right click an image, select Open With>Capture One 7.7.x, Capture One triggers but only opens a "recents" window that prompts me to Browse, or create a new session. What am I doing wrong that Capture One doesn't provide me a window with the image in which to work?
3. In Media Pro, when I right-click and select Open With>Default Application, the Default Application is Photoshop. I cannot find a preference with which to change that "Default Application" to be Capture One7.
Here are the settings that I've set in case that helps:
Media Pro:
-Media Rendering>RAW> Preferred Engine "Phase One", "Rendering" is set to "In Background for Large Images", "Use Embedded Preview" is checked, and Photo CD Size is set to "Large".
Capture One 7:
GENERAL SETTINGS:
"Media Pro"
-"Always Overwrite Metadata",
-"Ask When Syncing Catalog Sets"
-"Ask about Including Subfolders when Adding"
IMAGE SETTINGS:
-EIP Packing: Both boxes are unchecked currently
-"Default Processing Engine" is set to Capture One 7
-Metadata> Auto Sync Sidecar XMP is set to "Full Sync"
-Prefer Embedded XMP over Embedded IPTC is Checked
-Prefer Sidecar XMP over Embedded Metadata is Checked
I hope this is enough information to begin troubleshooting. Please help. I'm extremely pleased with the concept of Media Pro and my workflow needs this program to work more than ever. I'm moving away from Adobe as much as possible when the Creative Cloud is forced and I'll be fully reliant on Capture One, Media Pro, and Standalone editing plugins for my work.
Chawn Crawley
315.326.1155
chawn@chawncrawley.com
0
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[quote="NNN634319595153020553" wrote:
......
The problems are:
1. While I CAN see the flags in Media Pro that were originally created on Capture One7, if I change that flag, make a new flag, or add Stars to a file, I CAN'T see any of those changes if I re-open that Session in Capture One7.
2. If I right click a single image in Media Pro and select Open With>Capture One 7.7.x, The image does not properly open in CO7 (at least like I think it should). Randomly, I've seen the image try to open under a different (recently opened session) even though I've verified that NO sessions were currently opened when I did this. The other, more frequent occurrence is that in Media Pro I right click an image, select Open With>Capture One 7.7.x, Capture One triggers but only opens a "recents" window that prompts me to Browse, or create a new session. What am I doing wrong that Capture One doesn't provide me a window with the image in which to work?
3. In Media Pro, when I right-click and select Open With>Default Application, the Default Application is Photoshop. I cannot find a preference with which to change that "Default Application" to be Capture One7.
....
.....
Hi Chawn,
I'll try to answer some of your questions as best I can; some of them indirectly. I am far from an expert user of MP and CO7, but I do have a workflow that works for me; though it is somewhat different from yours. When my files are imported, I rarely move them. I use sessions for my work in CO; I have found I don't care for the CO catalogs, and the larger ones crashed.
I first import my files to the HD via Lightroom. I prefer its import interface and I can more quickly sort my files in LR, deleting the obvious rejects, and giving initial ratings to others. I save the metadata (1st only ratings) in sidecar files. I close LR and open MP, where I have sent the rendering preference to be Windows, not CO. This allows MP to very quickly load and show the files. The switch between programs goes quickly as well, as my software is all on a ssd.
When MP imports the files, the ratings come along with them in the sidecar files.
I then add keywords -- I much prefer MP to LR for this aspect.
I will sometimes change the ratings as I look again at the files.
Now the key, I think for you issues. I then "export the annotations" back to the sidecar files. Probably, like you, I have found that anything "auto sync" in MP or CO either doesn't work, or takes days to actually happen.
At this point, I then open the photos in CO7 which I have open at the same time as MP.
I tend to do this in small batches as CO7 still takes too long (for me) to import the photos; though there are times that I send them all over and go get a cup of coffee. I generally use a repeat session called "2013 photos" where I have emptied the folder "not in catalog set".
I'll right click on a photo in MP, select "open with" Capture One, select "overwrite" in the metadata import box that appears, followed by "yes" to the next question "place images in albums that match ....."
As I use sessions, they appear in the session album "not in the catalog set". If I send them all over, I'll generally rename this set as another session album.
I then edit away in Capture One. When I have made changes to any ratings, I select all the photos, and then "sync metadata" under the triangle in the metadata tab (this is a pain).
After all this, I reenter MP. then I select all the photos, and "import annotations" which gets the new ratings back into MP.
Finally, in MP, I'll select the photos that I have edited in CO (generally the higher rated ones), change the rendering preference to Capture One, and rebuild the files. After this, I change the rendering engine back to Windows.
To your question 3, I have never tried to set the Default Application, I just select Capture One. For reasons unknown, I have two choices of Capture One that appear. I also once left Capture One 6 on my system, and that appeared as well, confusing me with its similar small icon.
So, to make a long story short, I can easily send info back and forth between MP and CO7, but I don't use the "auto sync" functions. And MP will open my raw files in CO sessions if I send them through via "not in catalog sets".
Good luck.0 -
Thanks, Jim.
I appreciate the comments. I may have mis-spoke but I also DO use Sessions instead of Catalogs; my only reference to "Catalog" is with regard to the file-browser in Media Pro.
Your advice on forcing the Annotations is one I didn't think of; I just did it so I'll have to play with some files to see.
As of just now, I tried to right click and send a file out to Capture One7. The dumb thing sent THREE files out and then opened a random, recently-opened Session from another job (though that session was not opened at the time of export).
I want to like this program (MP), but my experience with it so far has just been abysmal. I simply cannot get over how poorly this thing has performed for me since the moment I downloaded it. I don't operate a difficult workflow and I'm pretty disappointed after having so many basic problems.
I can't really use LR4 the way you do as I shoot tethered 99% of the time and LR is too unpredictable with tethering. For me, LR just adds a step that doesn't help me much.
MP crashes on me about 6 times/day (if I'm not using it much; more often if I am).0 -
[quote="NNN634319595153020553" wrote:
MP crashes on me about 6 times/day (if I'm not using it much; more often if I am).
My first reaction to this is -- have patience.
By that I mean I have found it extremely unstable if I try to do something with it if it is still trying to perform a previous operation.
EG, If I ask it to save a catalog, and it starts off to save, it will often crash on me if I try to look at another photo, for instance.
Thus, my general mode of operation is to keep the activity window open (lower right + ) and if MP is doing something - NEVER ask it to do something else until it is done.0 -
[quote="NNN634319595153020553" wrote:
Thanks, Jim.
...
As of just now, I tried to right click and send a file out to Capture One7. The dumb thing sent THREE files out and then opened a random, recently-opened Session from another job (though that session was not opened at the time of export)..
Strange. I have never had that happen. Did anything appear in the folder "not in catalog set" ?
Was that empty before you tried to send a file?
If not, CO seems to have a pretty good memory if you don't delete all the files from that session folder first.0 -
Not necessarily an answer to your questions, let alone a solution, but this workflow works for me, at least kind of:
1. i do use the "auto sync" function, even though it's not really that auto
2. i do my "importing" in MP, but it's basically downloading to 'Inbox' folder on HD and then import to MP from there (by updating that folder in the catalog.
3. i rename/renumber my images and assign them to a inbox catalog set.
4. i move the images from the 'Inbox' folder to my archive folder structure from within MP (so it keeps track where they are).
5. i then do my rating and keywording in MP.
6. my selects (usually with 1 star) i send to CO7 via the right click "open with", in CO7 i have the setting to overwrite meta data.
7. i do not do any keywording in CO7, i do sometimes do change my ratings.
8. without doing anything i move back to MP (no need to close CO or export or anything).
9. in MP i sync edits with CMD+B and if necessary the meta data with ALT+CMD+B.
That's basically it, i do use a default session which i call MP-integrated. In CO, i do from time to time clean up the albums which are created from the catalog sets in MP (i have that setting), as not to be left with a lot of "junk".
Important side note: i do not shoot as much tethered as you, not nearly so (hardly ever, actually), but perhaps the various workflows described in this thread offer some tips for you.0 -
Okay Jim,
Some of the workflow you're describing looks like it may be worth a try just to see if it helps. Let me see if I can get this straight:
My CURRENT workflow consists of:
1. Build a new session given the client's name. (On my Desktop which is an SSD drive)
2. Shoot everything into that session, sort, rate, trash, and empty trash as-needed.
3. Drag the session over to my Pegasus drive where it stays forever in a folder named "2013_Capture_One"
4. I go into Media Pro (Whose catalog file stays on my SSD, incidentally) and select File>Import Items>From Files or Folders.
5. I browse to that recently added session and select it for Media Pro to log.
---------At this stage, if I select more than 1 session folder to Import, I can expect a full Media Pro crash 9/10 times------
6. eventually, I get this all done and can see the files in MP, can star, flag, or whatever; but those annotations do not appear in Capture One.
Here is where I go nuts.
If I'm in Media Pro, looking at a given image (in this case, it's titled Lisa Wells)...
I select this ONE file (verifying that NOTHING else was selected), I right-click and select Open With>Capture One...
.....The resulting behavior from Capture One is insane:
-First, it opens up a session titled, "Michelle and Preston". Now, it doesn't bring any images over of "Michelle and Preston"...just the title of that Session.
-Next, it doesn't bring in that ONE file of "Lisa" that I ordered; rather, it brings every single image of Lisa that was in that particular MP folder.
-In Capture One, off to the left, you can see in the browser area of the image I'm posting, that the CORRECT file path for "Lisa Wells" is highlighted. BUT, you can also see that the thumbnail browser is loaded with all her images, and incidentally, the image that I originally exported to CO7 for editing is present, but has NONE of the annotations or alterations I made in MP (Like adding a Blue Flag to indicate it needed to be retouched).
I'm going nuts.
Chawnhttp://chawncrawley.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Capture-One-import-11.png0 -
Crap-I just noticed that the screenshot ct off before you can see the session name (which was "Michelle and Preston".
But more often than not, when I try to export out FROM Media Pro TO Capture One, this is what it looks like:
Media Pro side:
http://chawncrawley.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Media-Pro-Handoff1.png
Capture One Response from launch:
Can't even open the file:
http://chawncrawley.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Capture-One-Screwup11.png
OR
Wrong Session Name
http://chawncrawley.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Capture-One-import-11.png
It does this all the time. So as an aside to my Media Pro woes, why does Capture One NEVER remember a session in this "Recents" window (even when I do not move the session folder from it's point of origin)??
And "Why" does it do this when I'm directing the file from from MP? Also, if I'm in Media Pro and select to open with Photoshop or any other choices, that file properly arrives at the correct application. Ironically, the only place the file won't correctly go to is the companion program to MP, lol.
Finally,
Is there any chance that I would be better served by creating a "Master Session" on my desktop that I use for ALL clients when they come in, and instead of importing the entire Session over to the Raid and tasking MP to import from there, having MP do it's cataloging while that session is still on the desktop? Because once I move that session over to the raid drive for archiving, won't MP be unable to find the files without further prompting??0 -
[quote="NNN634319595153020553" wrote:
.....
6. eventually, I get this all done and can see the files in MP, can star, flag, or whatever; but those annotations do not appear in Capture One.
Here is where I go nuts.
If I'm in Media Pro, looking at a given image (in this case, it's titled Lisa Wells)...
I select this ONE file (verifying that NOTHING else was selected), I right-click and select Open With>Capture One...
.....The resulting behavior from Capture One is insane:
-First, it opens up a session titled, "Michelle and Preston". Now, it doesn't bring any images over of "Michelle and Preston"...just the title of that Session.
-Next, it doesn't bring in that ONE file of "Lisa" that I ordered; rather, it brings every single image of Lisa that was in that particular MP folder.
-In Capture One, off to the left, you can see in the browser area of the image I'm posting, that the CORRECT file path for "Lisa Wells" is highlighted. BUT, you can also see that the thumbnail browser is loaded with all her images, and incidentally, the image that I originally exported to CO7 for editing is present, but has NONE of the annotations or alterations I made in MP (Like adding a Blue Flag to indicate it needed to be retouched).
Ok, please try the following.
1st, after you get stars and key words in, "export the annotations" to sidecar files. CO will eventually see these.
Next, open up CO 7 (but not from MP).
You should see a session that it last used.
Now create a new session, give it a name like test, and make it untethered.
http://www.pbase.com/jimmsp/image/150333402
http://www.pbase.com/jimmsp/image/150333403
Now go back to MP, select a photo, and open it in CO.
In MP, select "open with" Capture One, select "overwrite" in the metadata import box that appears, followed by "yes" to the next question "place images in albums that match ....."
In CO under session albums, you will see a new folder appear called "not in catalog set".
http://www.pbase.com/jimmsp/image/150333404
Click on that.
Your photo will appear there. You should also see all your ratings and key words.
You can now open as many photos from MP as you want to work on at a time.0 -
Chawn,
A last thought, which I think I said earlier.
I don't trust any of the "auto sync" routines.
I will sync metadata from CO to the sidecar files, and I re-import the metadata into MP after I have done my CO work.
BTW, I also use "update folder" to import my new files that I place in their master folder' ; I don't routinely "import" them.0 -
I created an untethered session called "General Editing Session" in my normal capture location, Jim.
Then I went to a kid I shot who is currently cataloged inside MP.
I flagged his image purple and chose "Export Annotations" from the Actions drop down (this is correct, yes?)
I right-clicked, selected open with CO7.
The image DID go correctly into the new "General Editing" session, which is an improvement.
However, all the images in that folder went; not just one. Does this to me every time.
Also, there is no reference to any newly created folders like "Not in Catalog Set" like you suggested. This is making me think that I'm doing something wrong and MP isn't fully to blame. I don't know. Something in one of the two programs' preferences must be frigged up if I didn't get a new "not in catalog set" folder, or any windows/prompts of any kind.
(Also, as an aside, I tried to change the rendering engine over to Apple as you have with Windows; the subsequent result was nearly every task I attempted caused an immediate crash on the Capture One side-so I'm stuck keeping the Phase One preference there)
Here is the screenshot of both applications doing the handoff:
http://chawncrawley.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/for-Jim.png0 -
[quote="NNN634319595153020553" wrote:
...
However, all the images in that folder went; not just one. Does this to me every time.
Also, there is no reference to any newly created folders like "Not in Catalog Set" like you suggested. This is making me think that I'm doing something wrong and MP isn't fully to blame. I don't know. Something in one of the two programs' preferences must be frigged up if I didn't get a new "not in catalog set" folder, or any windows/prompts of any kind.
....
Do you see
http://www.pbase.com/jimmsp/image/150333956
and more importantly
http://www.pbase.com/jimmsp/image/150333957
If not, there must be a difference between Windows and Mac software.0 -
Negative, Jim.
The only window of any kind that opens during the process is that little "Activities" window you see at the top. No prompts like you showed me at all.
And I could be wrong, but I believe the training vids discussed such windows opening-but I do not have this.
Can we send Phase One an invoice for the billable hours we're spending just getting MP running? 😄0 -
This product is beyond bad, actually. To sell it for $200+ and claim it does this or that only to learn it doesn't do any of it for so many users is downright misleading. Phase One had no business letting this thing out of beta in this shape; makes me doubt their competence about a lot of things.
Seriously-companies get class-action suits on the basis of false advertising for less than this. And I'm going to go $30G on an MF system with these guys?!?!
Pretty sure Hasselblad would have at least chimed in at some point. I can't find anyone at Phase to make this work for me now, but I sure didn't have any trouble finding someone to take my credit card. It's my fault; if I had read these threads before I bought in I would have known it wasn't remotely ready for prime time. We who use CO7 have ZERO truly viable DAM options and Media Pro has my $200.
I'm having a couple beers at lunch today. My head hurts.0 -
[quote="Chawn_Crawley" wrote:
Negative, Jim.
The only window of any kind that opens during the process is that little "Activities" window you see at the top. No prompts like you showed me at all.
And I could be wrong, but I believe the training vids discussed such windows opening-but I do not have this.
Can we send Phase One an invoice for the billable hours we're spending just getting MP running? 😄
It has to be Windows vs Mac versions.
Try creating a session folder called "not in catalog set" and see if MP populates it.
Re billing PO - they couldn't afford to pay me for all the hours I've wasted, esp on the first version of CO7 they released.0 -
Since I'm shooting tethered, if I pack my inbound files from the camera as .EIP's instead of separate NEF/XML's would I be better off setting up CO7 to run catalogs and then just copy files from the Capture Folder to a secondary drive for backup?
In other words, aren't we all better off taking MP off the table until these wizbangs get it running right?
I'm stumped here. EVEN if I were to get MP running at an optimal level (which, for me, is a LONG ways away), it's still such a manual process that I fail to see how it's going to be of much help to me right now. It's a BAD product; plain and simple. Maybe my head's just fried, but I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for this thing any time soon. I'm just spinning my wheels and from the looks of this forum, most everyone else is, too?0 -
[quote="Chawn_Crawley" wrote:
Since I'm shooting tethered, if I pack my inbound files from the camera as .EIP's instead of separate NEF/XML's would I be better off setting up CO7 to run catalogs and then just copy files from the Capture Folder to a secondary drive for backup?
In other words, aren't we all better off taking MP off the table until these wizbangs get it running right?
I'm stumped here. EVEN if I were to get MP running at an optimal level (which, for me, is a LONG ways away), it's still such a manual process that I fail to see how it's going to be of much help to me right now. It's a BAD product; plain and simple. Maybe my head's just fried, but I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for this thing any time soon. I'm just spinning my wheels and from the looks of this forum, most everyone else is, too?
Good questions. I don't use EIPs, and don't like the CO Catalog philosophy. I had major problems (read crashes) with it early on, and I think their key wording capability is primitive.
I also occasionally use Lightroom (20-25% ?) as well as other programs (like HDR, Pano, PSE) and want to maintain a folder structure for my photos.
That puts me all in sessions. As you can tell from my workflow, it is probably more complex and manual than it should be, but it does work.
And I have ZERO confidence that PO will ever be able to integrate a decent and stable DAM capability into Capture One. I would wish they quit trying, make CO 7 the best processing program it can be, and fix MP.0 -
Good points.
I'm like you, actually. Regardless of EIP or nef/xmp, I run sessions. My images get uploaded to an online proofing server with matching file numbers. Either I or the client cherry pick the images they want worked, retouched, printed, etc. So when that happens, I go in to CO, export the selected images to a specific type of TIFF and then there is a handy folder named "Retouched" in the Session folder. I can take those tiffs and drop them into whatever filter or editor I need at that point.
ALL I ever wanted was a way to be able to peruse and compare images that resided in separate sessions. Enter Media Pro and the beginning stages of a bleeding ulcer, lol.
Now that I'm looking at the catalog architecture I see what you mean in terms of primitive. I really don't gain enough that way to bother-except for having a nightmare scenario occur with a corrupt drive or catalog.
Hence, I'm back to Sessions as my system of choice. But with no DAM of any kind until something comes of an epic MP update. They can't grow enough pot to smoke if they think I'm doing a paid upgrade for it, either.
Give CO7 a clone tool (that works, please) and I'm set.
Seriously though: Is it possible that I "could" benefit from nuking the existing MP catalog and re-install the program from the ground up? Or am I just talking in desperation? Because even though you have your share of crashes and issues, mine doesn't even freaking move images over, lol...0 -
Just for kicks, I tried opening an older EIP file that I had from Adobe Bridge. I didn't expect Bridge to actually open it, but the behavior from Capture One was the exact same. When I opened it in Bridge, that triggered CO7 to open, but it's not smart enough to open a session to accommodate the file. Just gives that window to select a new session or catalog. If I go ahead and open a new session, I end up with a new session, but the file never makes it there.
Between the fact that most of the preferences that need to be set are inside Capture One as opposed to MP, and the fact that the opening behavior is the same from Bridge, I'm inclined to think that the integration issues are more on the CO side of it all.
Granted, I'm no tech; not even close. Just an observation. In any case, I'm going to nuke the MP catalog, and program from my iMac, do a fresh re-install and just see if it behaves even slightly better. If it does, I'll post it here for others see. If not, I'm just going to quit complaining and look for another way to get my until/if MP ever improves enough to bother. It's just a shame. Anyone can look at the UI in MP, check out the advertised feature set, and see that Phase has a really great potential piece of kit here. I fear that they're (especially considering the negatives of Adobe's Cloud) going to work like hell to make CO act like Lightroom with cataloging and leave Media Pro and the Sessions architecture in the dust.
Good Times.0
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