Processing Canon 5D MKII files
After using a Canon 5D for several years I expected the files from the new MKII to be similar in most ways. But I am finding they are quite different and I am trying to do proper adjustments and figure out a workflow to get the real life-like color that came with the 5D. I do conversions with Cap1 as well as Lightroom and the issues are very similar on both platforms. So this is not the fault of Cap1
First, I would really like to know if other 5DMKII users are seeing some of the same things as I see.
There are three things that bother me and they are all inter-related
1. The blacks in an image are very heavy. I took some wedding pictures of guys in black coats, and although the skin tone and overall color and of the image tone are OK, the coats just look like black paint, no detail, heavy heavy black. Overall exposure OK, Black things are cold coal black
2. There is too much native contrast in the files. The high contrast is not natural and can have skin tones fringing with orange. It makes the images look fake.
3. It is much more difficult to set the proper white balance. Basic adjustments can have unanticipatated results and, and skin tones can come across as pale and lifeless due to the tweaking that takes place in so many places.
My basic question to those serious photographers who use Cap1 is to ask if they are also seeing these same things or is it just me. If it's just me, welll....That would not be the first time I set myself aside like this : ) But if there are others having these same issues than there needs to be a solution, if not a solution form canon to change the RAW file, then a solution in the ways we processs the images to get more lfelike color and normal balance into our work.
I look forward to responses. Contact me direct if you want to do that ;
I am mike@digitalartsphotgrahphy.com
First, I would really like to know if other 5DMKII users are seeing some of the same things as I see.
There are three things that bother me and they are all inter-related
1. The blacks in an image are very heavy. I took some wedding pictures of guys in black coats, and although the skin tone and overall color and of the image tone are OK, the coats just look like black paint, no detail, heavy heavy black. Overall exposure OK, Black things are cold coal black
2. There is too much native contrast in the files. The high contrast is not natural and can have skin tones fringing with orange. It makes the images look fake.
3. It is much more difficult to set the proper white balance. Basic adjustments can have unanticipatated results and, and skin tones can come across as pale and lifeless due to the tweaking that takes place in so many places.
My basic question to those serious photographers who use Cap1 is to ask if they are also seeing these same things or is it just me. If it's just me, welll....That would not be the first time I set myself aside like this : ) But if there are others having these same issues than there needs to be a solution, if not a solution form canon to change the RAW file, then a solution in the ways we processs the images to get more lfelike color and normal balance into our work.
I look forward to responses. Contact me direct if you want to do that ;
I am mike@digitalartsphotgrahphy.com
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Mike,
First, I have not made that much images with the 5D Mk II to be able to draw detailed conclusions like you did, but in general (and in particular regarding the blacks) I felt quite unhappy with the camera. My interim conclusion was that, after having sold my 5D a year ago, and making pictures with a Leica M8 and CO4 processing since then, I have to wait to 4.6 to be available to make up my mind (I almost sold the 5D Mk II already).
Initial impression is that CO 4.6 makes a lot better picture from the 5D Mk II raws, but I repeat that I have till now made just a few images.0 -
Hmmm, I'm not liking the sound of this. I haven't bought a 5D Mk II yet, but was planning the purchase soon.
Just to check, I doubt you turned it on, but you're not shooting with the highlight tone priority enabled, correct?
I like deep blacks--they add depth to an image, but I also like detail in those areas. So you are saying that it isn't just Capture One which is showing these flat blacks, but other programs too? What happens if you push the exposure compensation ridiculously high? Is there any information in the shadows that may be recovered with some tweaking?0 -
Highlight Tone Priority disabled. 0 -
christopher - First, the 5dMKII files display very similarly in C1 as in Lightroom so the issue is not the software.
For the blacks
In processing these files with C1, I have to do some things I never had to do with the 5D.
- I dial in up to - 12 on contrast
- I pump up the shadows slider perhaps to 5 - 10
These two steps will do more than just adjust the blacks, the remainder of the image is affected by them. So then I tweak other settings.
The other challenge is White Balance. The 5DMKII has the most irregular WB of any dslr I have used. It can be tough to get the WB right.
I love the detail in 5DMKII files, I love the ability to shoot at higher ISO, but I really think ( and predict ) that as the camera is put into more use ( by wedding photographers especially) we are going to hear more of these complaints.
WHat I was hoping to get on this board was perhaps some settings that people have found worked well with the MKII.0 -
Mike,
Have some more experience with the 5D MkII and CO 4.6 and become more and more happy with it. The raw files contain an enormous latitude in recovering both highlight and shadow details when heavily clipped after exposure. I also tend to set the Shadow slider to 10-20 values, but have not yet use the Contrast slider. When applying Levels, I set the black-point slider 1-2 values lower.
I did a shoot with people skating on ice, low sun on the ice surface due to back-light, dark clothes, but I am happy with the results.0 -
This is what I was getting at when asking if there was information in the blacks, and if pushing the exposure in Capture One to an extreme showed anything.
Basically the 5D Mk II is using most of the 14-bits per channel. That gives 16,384 levels for each of the RGB channels. How do you show that many levels on a display which only supports 256 levels per channel? You quantize, squish, push and pull, but something has to give.
This camera is recording much more information than can be used on screen or even in a print. So you've got to pick how to map this data into a usable range. This is precisely what the Shadow and Highlight sliders were designed to do; to allow the user to quickly compress or expand one end of the histogram without having to resort to building custom curves.
I feel better, and will start adding pennies to my 5D Mk II fund again. 😊0 -
[quote="Christopher" wrote:
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Basically the 5D Mk II is using most of the 14-bits per channel. That gives 16,384 levels for each of the RGB channels. How do you show that many levels on a display which only supports 256 levels per channel?
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I feel better, and will start adding pennies to my 5D Mk II fund again. 😊
The 12 or 14-bits or current dSLRs is not a per channel value. The image recording and demosaicing process is rather complex and I am aware I only touched the surface with my understanding, but it does not translate in a 1-to-1 fashion to RGB levels. But never mind, our conclusion is the same regarding that is makes sense to care about your 5D Mk II fund. I think you will not regret such a purchase. So far for my moral encouragement. 😉0 -
[quote="Christopher" wrote:
Basically the 5D Mk II is using most of the 14-bits per channel. That gives 16,384 levels for each of the RGB channels. How do you show that many levels on a display which only supports 256 levels per channel? You quantize, squish, push and pull, but something has to give.
This camera is recording much more information than can be used on screen or even in a print. So you've got to pick how to map this data into a usable range.
I don't have a 5D MkII. But I recently bought a 50D and noticed a similar thing... It is much harder to get good detail in the blacks than with my old 30D. It's not specific to C1 as it happens in other raw developers as well. Perhaps its the 14 bit vs 12 bit thing. I find myself using the "Film Extra Shadow" tone curve much more now.
It also got me wondering what's the difference between using "Film Extra Shadow" or using the highlights/shadow tool. Perhaps "Film Extra Shadow" is not really preferable, as the new shadow tool in V4 is adjustable?
Paul H0 -
[quote="Paul" wrote:
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It also got me wondering what's the difference between using "Film Extra Shadow" or using the highlights/shadow tool. Perhaps "Film Extra Shadow" is not really preferable, as the new shadow tool in V4 is adjustable?
Paul H
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