Manual Sort order in Catalog Sets
I understood Catalog Sets to be a place where a manual sort order would be stored. The staff here at my office has been using Sets in this way since iView and indeed with Expression Media 1 and 2. It seems that in the Media Pro 1.4.1.67972 the sort order in Sets is being overridden by the sort order that can be requested in the View/Sort menu even if the last sort I make is done manually. It was not happening like this in Media Pro 1.0.1 so my guess is that they have broken things.
It used to be that I could
1. sort my Catalog Set by an attribute, say File Name.
2. manually sort my set
3. go look at another set, label, all items, whatever.
4. go back to my set and the order will not have changed from how I left it in step 2. However now with Media Pro 1.4.1.67972 the order will revert back to the last order set with View/Sort instead of respecting my manual sort order.
This is a major issue for us because the order of items is critical.
We have tested on multiple computers here, Windows 7, Mac 10.8 and 10.9 and are experiencing the same issue on all of them.
How can I save a manual sort order? Are you experiencing this or not in another version of Media Pro?
It used to be that I could
1. sort my Catalog Set by an attribute, say File Name.
2. manually sort my set
3. go look at another set, label, all items, whatever.
4. go back to my set and the order will not have changed from how I left it in step 2. However now with Media Pro 1.4.1.67972 the order will revert back to the last order set with View/Sort instead of respecting my manual sort order.
This is a major issue for us because the order of items is critical.
We have tested on multiple computers here, Windows 7, Mac 10.8 and 10.9 and are experiencing the same issue on all of them.
How can I save a manual sort order? Are you experiencing this or not in another version of Media Pro?
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Yes major problems with manual sorting for a month or 2
Using MediaPro 1.4.2 and Mavericks
iView user for over 10 years
I you have a manual order and then drop in some more pictures the order reverts to the previous one.
Totally unacceptable and destroys the very reason for using this programme: Proper Manual Sorting.
There is no undo, hours of work can be lost.
This is a major bug.
Please fix this as soon as possible.0 -
I'm also using MediaPro 1.4.2 and Mavericks, been an iView/Microsoft/Phase One Media Pro user for well over 10 years as well.
I just ran into this issue too. First I was thinking I was using the product wrong, it SEEMED to used to work. Played with it for several hours before looking for (and finding) this forum post. Organizing my photo collection is reason #1 I've used Media Pro for years, from iView, to Microsoft, and now to Phase One. I'm incredulous that this doesn't work.
Has anyone come up with a workaround? Other than moving to another product? If you have, please share!0 -
I have reported to Support and I trust they have passed it along to developers. But this is a major bug and it has been already many weeks. I don't feel particularly confident about this since so much time has passed.
One "workaround" I found was to select the items from your Set and Right Click with the mouse, and choose Move to New Catalog. When they are in the new catalog you can manually sort (but never use the preset sorts because then you'll be stuck again)0 -
I am appalled Phase One are selling "pro" software that no longer functions properly and in in fact destroys hours of work. OSX Mavericks was released 9 months ago and is used by 40-50% of OSX users.
This morning I open a saved document, the order of pictures is not what was saved.
Please stop selling broken software to Apple users.0 -
Please stop selling broken software to Apple users.
Or Windows users...0 -
Okay, it's been 6 months since the last post. I'm just getting to experience this bug. However, I'm still using Snow Leopard and the manual sort feature is history. Anyone come up with a workaround, or has PhaseOne been busy on this? 0 -
This is very disappointing. Manual sorting in Catalog Sets is a basic requirement. Loss of this feature would make Media Pro useless to me. (This is yet another reason for me to keep using Expression Media on a compatible OS partition for as long as I can keep my current Mac running.)
Is downgrading to a version of Media Pro earlier than version 1.4.1.67972 a possibility for any of you Media Pro users?0 -
(This is yet another reason for me to keep using Expression Media on a compatible OS partition for as long as I can keep my current Mac running.)
The same applies for me (on windows). As long as it runs i have the time to work out a migration to another DAM. I have experimented with Lightroom and it's very promising. Not everything works as i'm used to in EM but i will find alternative ways to work with it.
Roelof0 -
[quote="rmoorlag" wrote:
As long as [Expression Media] runs i have the time to work out a migration to another DAM. I have experimented with Lightroom and it's very promising. Not everything works as i'm used to in EM but i will find alternative ways to work with it.
I might end up moving to Lightroom too, but very reluctantly. I'm in the unfortunate position of using both a DAM (Expression Media) and a RAW editor (Nikon Capture NX2) that have been abandoned by their manufacturers. Apple just abandoned its DAM+RAW editor Aperture, too, so that option is gone.
I've read that Lightroom can't quite match the color fidelity of Nikon's picture controls. Capture One Pro appears to come close to matching Nikon colors, but if Media Pro remains crippled/abandoned I'll still be DAM-less. I'm hoping I can hold out until after Apple releases Photos (Aperture's "replacement"). Maybe it'll be better than everyone fears (but I doubt it).0 -
WORKAROUND:
I received the following reply from Customer Support in October 2014 when I inquired regarding the Manual Sorting problem:
"We are aware of this bug in 1.4.2, In the meantime the only solution is to use version 1.3 for manual sort:"
http://www.phaseone.com/en/Downloads/Ma ... chive.aspx
I successfully downgraded to Version 1.3.2, and I have once again been able to reorder my catalogs with that version of Media Pro.
I also asked them: "Is PhaseOne actually working on an updated version of Media Pro, or have you stopped development on this program? It's very surprising that this bug hasn't yet been fixed if you've known about it for five months. This isn't inexpensive software, and I believe you owe it to your customers to fix such basic functionality in the program."
They replied: "We are hoping to release another version of Media Pro soon, so no work has not stopped". That was October 7, 2014 and it's now 4 months since they wrote that and 9 months since they became aware of the sorting program. Don't hold your breath. Also the program no longer works with Mac's Yosemite OS, so I' not able to upgrade. Time to look for another Digital Asset Manager.
(I've also been an iView/Microsoft/Phase One Media Pro user for well over 10 years -- fondly remembering the iView days when the developing team actually cared about their product.)0 -
Hi
We are working on it and a running beta on it right now.
By far the biggest issue is that we are all over on 64bit computers now and the old code is 32bit.
To get ahead of the question, no then updated version will not be 64bit but parts of it will.
For Mac users this won't be a big deal, system requirements will be similar to before.
However Windows users is will as the minimum requirements basically will be the same as Capture One 8.0 -
Hi. Do you have any idea when an update will be available? 0 -
Hi. I just installed the 1.5 update of Media Pro. I still cannot manually sort the order of the images in catalog sets. That is, I can moved around the files/thumbnails, but the order will not be saved. Wasn't this a bug that was supposed to be fixed? The lack of this simple feature takes away a big part of its usefulness for me, I am sorry to say. And it used to work! 0 -
Hi
A quick test here shows that it works in 1.5.
Import some images, change order manually.
Save and close.
Open, new order has been saved.
Do it again, change some images order. Save and close.
Open, new order has been saved.
Not very scientific but it seem to work.
For further support: Http://support.phaseone.con -> Contact support0 -
You're right, Ulf. It works now in new projects established from scratch with version 1.5. I didn't try that myself.
But with older projects created by earlier versions of Media Pro, it still doesn't, unfortunately. At least here on my Mac.
Best regards
Christian0 -
Hi Ulf
Thanks for your Test
Try this:
1. Manually change order in Thumbnails
2. Make correct order in List
3. Manually change order in Thumbnails
4. Save, Close
5. CHANGES ARE NOT SAVED
or
1. Manually change order in Thumbnails
2. Make correct order in List
3. Manually change order in Thumbnails
4. Drop in other photo
5. Photos reorder and ALL MANUAL CHANGES ARE LOST
Greatly saddened to say Media Pro is still broken
Preference is On: Maintain item sort whenever possible
Media Pro 1.5, OSX 10.9.5
Yours Douglas0 -
Douglas
For now, you can export items and annotations.
Create a new catalog, import both again and it should work.0 -
Hi Ulf
Thanks for your reply.
However I don’t understand your comment:
“For now, you can export items and annotations.â€
The only export command in Media Pro is to XML, which I have not referred to.
This does not solve the problem of saving a Media Pro Catalog, surely the point of the software.
If the software cannot save properly in its own format, then surely it is broken.
My Test showing Media Pro is broken was carried out on brand new catalogues in Media Pro 1.5.
Have you carried out these simple tests?
Yours Douglas0 -
Action -> Export Annotations 0 -
Support told me to use a preference that you might not guess would do what you want.
Under General: Maintain item sort whenever possible.
They told me to turn this OFF in order to preserve a manual sort in v 1.5. I haven't had a chance to test this yet but maybe someone else has or can.
I couldn't tell from the documentation what "Sort using natural order" is supposed to mean but I think i had to turn that off as well.
Cheers-
Jan0 -
[quote="NNN635577306872540661" wrote:
Support told me to use a preference that you might not guess would do what you want.
Under General: Maintain item sort whenever possible.
They told me to turn this OFF in order to preserve a manual sort in v 1.5. I haven't had a chance to test this yet but maybe someone else has or can.
I can confirm this behavior in my Catalog Sets for EM-to-MP conversions. And it is very strange. According to the release notes for Media Pro 1.5, this version "Introduces a new preference option under General called ‘Maintain item sort whenever possible’ to allow users to keep the old way of handling manual sort." Yet to actually maintain manually-sorted items in converted catalogs, you must uncheck the option![quote="NNN635577306872540661" wrote:
I couldn't tell from the documentation what "Sort using natural order" is supposed to mean but I think i had to turn that off as well.
I found the answer in the old iView documentation:
"[. . . ] Sort media based on natural numerical order (i.e. 1,2,3..., 10,11) [. . .]"
On the surface it appears that the two sorting options:- Sort using natural order[/*:c9d692a0]
- Maintain item sort whenever possible[/*:c9d692a0]
would conflict with each other. And the phrase "whenever possible" creates uncertainty.
Suggestion to Phase One:
Assuming that maintaining manual sort only in Catalog Sets (not in the entire catalog) is the desired effect, it would make more sense to name the options like this:- Sort using natural order (e.g., 1, 2, 3...) by default[/*:c9d692a0]
- Maintain manual sort in Catalog Sets[/*:c9d692a0]
Of course this assumes that checking the second option actually worked as intended. It appears that the programmer coded this option backwards.
Also, if these options were intended to be mutually exclusive ("either/or") and if they might conflict with each other, they should be presented as radio buttons, not check boxes.0 - Sort using natural order[/*:c9d692a0]
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[quote="NN231086UL" wrote:
Hi Ulf
Thanks for your reply.
However I don’t understand your comment:
“For now, you can export items and annotations.â€
The only export command in Media Pro is to XML, which I have not referred to.
This does not solve the problem of saving a Media Pro Catalog, surely the point of the software.
If the software cannot save properly in its own format, then surely it is broken.
My Test showing Media Pro is broken was carried out on brand new catalogues in Media Pro 1.5.
Have you carried out these simple tests?
Yours Douglas
Douglas,
I think Ulf is trying to say that his suggested workaround is to create a fresh MP catalog and import your existing image folder into the new MP catalog. His suggestion to "export annotations" refers to the act of syncing annotations (MP uses different terminology) before you perform the import to make sure you import the most current annotations. The idea is that fresh catalogs in v 1.5 maintain manual sort better than converted catalogs. But in my experiments, this isn't necessarily true.
I tested Ulf's suggested workaround by creating a fresh MP catalog and importing an existing folder of 23,000+ annotated images. I found that the new MP catalog does not honor the original manual sort order of the existing Catalog Set images. When re-sorting images manually, the new MP catalog also does not maintain manual sort order unless I uncheck the "Maintain item sort..." option. So in my experience Ulf's suggested workaround is worse than converting EM-to-MP via "open catalog" and "save as". The latter (conventional) method of conversion maintains manual sort order perfectly only if the "Maintain item sort..." option is unchecked in MP prior to converting the EM catalog. Also, Ulf's suggested workaround does not maintain the manual sort order of the Catalog Set names in the left-hand column; this list is a jumble. The conventional conversion method maintains this order perfectly.
I'm guessing that Ulf was hopeful, but not certain, that his workaround would work for converting EM Catalog Sets to MP. My hypothesis is that only freshly-created MP catalogs with freshly-created Catalog Sets will honor manual sort by default.
My conclusion is that the only viable method for converting EM catalogs (with manually-sorted Catalog Sets) to Media Pro is to first uncheck the "Maintain item sort..." preference in MP prior to conversion, then use the conventional conversion method ("Open catalog" then "Save as..."). As long as this workaround sticks, I guess I can proceed working with MP, but I do hope Phase One can fix this issue in a future release.
[edited for clarity and concision after several experiments]0
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