Pay by subscription or outright?....
Although I have only been using CO8 as a Trial download for a couple of days and there is much to explore, discover and become familiar with, I will be purchasing a licence probably sooner than later. There is no future with Aperture 3.6 and Apple's Photos app simply doesn't offer what I need.
So my question is the pros and cons of which method to pay - Subscribe or outright?
I calculated very roughly that it would take about 24 months of subs to equal the outright payment. Presumably, if paid outright, .dot upgrades will continue to be free of charge but version (8 to 9, for example) upgrades are paid for?
Do the subs continue past the outright payment sum ad infinitum for as long as you want to continue using the software?
Any comments or advice would be welcome - Thanks.
Robin
So my question is the pros and cons of which method to pay - Subscribe or outright?
I calculated very roughly that it would take about 24 months of subs to equal the outright payment. Presumably, if paid outright, .dot upgrades will continue to be free of charge but version (8 to 9, for example) upgrades are paid for?
Do the subs continue past the outright payment sum ad infinitum for as long as you want to continue using the software?
Any comments or advice would be welcome - Thanks.
Robin
0
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Have you taken into account that paid upgrades for the payed outright option are considerable lower than the initial purchase?
I think that there are some variables in the equation that can only be estimated. It all depends when the next major release of Capture One will surface. My assessment is that if you can afford the full price fee now, you will be happy to pay future upgrades for the reduced price. If you are on a budget, or do not want to invest for the long run, and live by the day so to speak, go for the subscription model.
My 2 cts.0 -
Thanks, Paul 😊
Yes, I assumed that paid upgrade versions would be considerably lower, say about €40 (guessed).
How regular/often have version upgrades been so far?0 -
CO Pro upgrade fees have been stable on € 69, but with advice from an Ambassador (see below) you might save a bit, same for full purchase by the way. (/warning, sales pitch alert) 😉
Main releases have occurred every 2 years approximately for the last few upgrades, but be aware that the subscription model was not there yet, so it could change. As I said, there are too many variables in the equation.
As I wrote in my CO8 reviews (http://imagealchemist.net/category/capture-one/review/) the Capture One development has become incremental. This gives Phase One the opportunity to do a major release any time they want and that moment could be when the subscription fee equals the paid fee. Who knows?
I suggest you do what feels right today. Carpe Diem (seize the day)!0 -
Robin,
I seem to remember that a concern about subscription pricing was discussed a few months ago and the Phase One position was that, at this time, the Subscription model was introduced primarily for the benefit of studios or agencies with multiple seats and intended to simplify the process for adding or removing "seats" on demand as well as make budgeting easier. To some extent the same benefits, at least for budgeting, apply to everyone else as well.
I would agree with Paul's comments.
On balance I have always felt that the buy price, the upgrade price and the upgrade cycle have been acceptable given the advances available with each release - especially the major releases. Personally I like to "own" the software but I can see some attraction in the subscription model in some circumstances.
HTH.
Grant0 -
Thanks, both Paul and Grant 😊
Then I will go for the buy option rather than subscribe and probably do so this coming week. I don't see anything in CO8 which is a deal-breaker or which screws up my typical workflow. In fact, Apple giving up on Aperture has probably done me, and many other new Capture One adopters, a favour!0 -
I asked myself a similar question about two months ago. My calculations showed that in the very long term a subscription is about the same price as full purchase with regular major upgrades. I ran a couple of scenarios: monthly, discounted monthly, full price purchase, discounted initial purchase. Major upgrades for purchased packages occurred every 18 months at $100.
Depending on which scenarios I compared, I saw that it would take something like 3 to 5 years for the full purchase price with upgrades to be exceeded by a monthly subscription. From a financial perspective, it all works out to be about the same, Phase One thought this out very well.
Personally, I don't like monthly payments. I'd rather pay for something upfront and see one less item in my credit card statement. The price was high, like buying food for a month, but I am happy with my purchase. Capture One has enhanced my photography and my life by enabling a lot of creativity. Unless Capture One stops supporting Pentax cameras I will always be a strong advocate of the software.0 -
Hi,
actually I am in the same situation, however slightly different. I start to explore C1P and I am missing comfort which Aperture offered to me. I mention here in some posts - catalog is poor, the library is not as powerful as was in Aperture. Also lacking import pics from iPhone, as well as cumbersome processes (stitching pics/HDR..).
But to the point - if the PO would bring some more technology in C1P, then I think is better to go with monthly subscr. and here is why I think so:
You'll buy current version X.Y.Z , you'll get some Z (maybe even Y) for free. But within 2 years there is newer version (you can bet they'll introduce anything, even when only icons will change color), which you can buy for ~69€ - or you can use old SW (which depends on your needs) you'll like old or will exchange for new - thus 229 (+69?) vs 24*8 = (192) and extending the period for 2 another years (or not?). It looks like with these 229€ you'll get something - but are you sure this SW will run on Yellowstone? (or on whichever name of latest MacOSX???)..
You can mitigate the costs by waiting - within 2 years there will be another SW improving their quality as well - so PO either decrease price or loose some customers, they will have to improve more than just issues mentioned here on this forum - because there are competitors just front the door.
P.0 -
I just don't see the justification of a subscription model for a RAW converter. Yes, for photoshop no problem, I usually edit the file, flatten and save off to TIFF. If I want to go back and do a new edit, its back from the RAW converter, oh wait subscription failed/could not connect to the license server. All my adjustment just ran out the window, all the keyboarding, star ratings and such are gone, and for some where on the hard drive did it put that raw file.
As it seems like the RAW converter is becoming the storage location for RAW files, with all the rating, categories, organization. Would you ever want to trust something that can lock you out with out you even knowing it did. Go on vacation, and forget to pay, when you come back and try to enter all your new great images, now you have to scramble to pay in order to use the system. Thats why I have paid for LR5, and will most likely pay for the upgrade to LR6 (CC) even through I have a PhotoShop subscription and get it for free. I don't want to be screwed if I drop my subscription, then loose everything done in LR. I paid for CO6, CO7 and CO8 (upgrades but still paid). At least with the item paid for, if I want to move to something else, I still have the program available to migrate from, and hopefully be able to duplicate the data.
I really like CO8, and do use it for some of my work, but I mainly shoot Hasselblad, and until (Sorry to say) PhaseOne gets their head out of their butts and figure out that supporting the other MF cameras will not eat into the sales of their MF cameras, CO is used very little.
Robert0 -
they need a rent-to-own model 😎 0 -
[quote="deejjjaaaa" wrote:
they need a rent-to-own model 😎
That would be interesting! How much of an extra add-on to the price would you think is acceptable? 10-15%?0 -
Having started this thread's question and considered the replies, I have now just purchased a CO8 licence outright.
Quite a tricky learning curve regarding organising images when you come from the more user-friendly Aperture but the rest of CO8 is excellent in my opinion.0 -
Congrats on the purchase and welcome to the family, so to speak! 😊 0 -
[quote="6BQ5" wrote:
Congrats on the purchase and welcome to the family, so to speak! 😊
+10 -
Still continuing in the thread, as I've couple of more days for considering whether to join C1P or will pick something else. It's kinda prohibited to mention competitors here (at least these alive I guess), however there are various features available on the market. [quote="RedRobin" wrote:
...
Quite a tricky learning curve regarding organising images when you come from the more user-friendly Aperture but the rest of CO8 is excellent in my opinion.
I still didn't find how to adjust Color - as local adjustment only.
Also the power of ease Aperture when speaking about usage is very noticeable...
- did you guys ever try to hold cmd/opt/ctrl/shift keys when working with mask? (and nothing happened right)
That's the power of MAC, the very basic mechanism - which I am missing A LOT ☹️
It's not only about habit - actually - one will hardly enjoy VW when used to use BMW (VW could be maybe sometimes faster, cheaper, but the pleasure is simply not there...). And I understand, that sometimes you have to drive Toyota if you want so feel real difference 😄0 -
[quote="PaaS" wrote:
It's not only about habit - actually - one will hardly enjoy VW when used to use BMW (VW could be maybe sometimes faster, cheaper, but the pleasure is simply not there...). And I understand, that sometimes you have to drive Toyota if you want so feel real difference 😄
But do you not find it annoying when a perceived quality manufacturer suddenly announces that it is discontinuing its limousine manufacturing in favour of a mass market city car? At least the other vendors allow you to stay within or close to the class of product you aspire to - and you may find other unexpected advantages when taking that journey.
Grant0 -
[quote="PaaS" wrote:
It's not only about habit - actually - one will hardly enjoy VW when used to use BMW (VW could be maybe sometimes faster, cheaper, but the pleasure is simply not there...). And I understand, that sometimes you have to drive Toyota if you want so feel real difference 😄
.... * cough!* My previous car was a BMW coupe with straight-six engine. My current car is VW Golf GTI Mk5, albeit highly modified for fast road use and occasional trackdays. I loved my BMW but my GTI is more fun and also more practical. But, I do see the point you are making 😊0 -
[quote="PaaS" wrote:
I still didn't find how to adjust Color - as local adjustment only.
Can we help you with that?
(1) On the local adjustments tab, create a new adjustment layer. Paint in a mask on the part of the image you'd like to adjust.
(2) You can now do a number of things that will adjust the colour of the part you have selected. You can change the white balance of just the masked area. (I've found that useful when the scene has mixed lighting.) You can select colours in the masked area and do things like adjust their saturation, hue, lightness, etc with the advanced tab in the colour editor. But note that the basic tab of the colour editor does NOT work as a local adjustment.
Does that help?
Ian0 -
[quote="Ian3" wrote:
[quote="PaaS" wrote:
I still didn't find how to adjust Color - as local adjustment only.
Can we help you with that?
(1) On the local adjustments tab, create a new adjustment layer. Paint in a mask on the part of the image you'd like to adjust.
(2) You can now do a number of things that will adjust the colour of the part you have selected. You can change the white balance of just the masked area. (I've found that useful when the scene has mixed lighting.) You can select colours in the masked area and do things like adjust their saturation, hue, lightness, etc with the advanced tab in the colour editor. But note that the basic tab of the colour editor does NOT work as a local adjustment.
Does that help?
Ian
Ian - thank you - however I already tried this, but unfortunately it doesn't work for me ☹️
What is working is white balance, but no saturation ☹️( that would be awesome!
So on masked part of image - I can easily see changing White balance, exposure... but once I want to change Saturation in COLOR EDITOR section - it's changing saturation for whole picture - not the local masked area!!
That's why I said - it's not working...
If anyone knows how to solve it - I'll be glad for such steps.
Thank you!
EDIT:
ohhhh!!!!!! how amazing - I figure it out... I can't go to COLOR EDITOR, but need to change EXPOSURE part...
well, well... I'm wondering whether there are more Saturation settings for different parts...
(and Color editor is the 1st adrjustment in layers....)
I agree my fault, my fault... probably I am special..0 -
Golly! That's a strange coincidence - I was about to adjust the colour of a background by another method :
Edit with... Photoshop CS6 TIFF > Select background > Apply Imageonic Noise Reduction plug-in to background layer only > Open and edit that layer in Perfect Effects 9 > Apply back to Photoshop > Smart Sharpen > Save > the edits auto roll back to Capture One.
Brush painting masks aren't usually accurate enough for a natural looking result on wildlife images so I use Photoshop's Direct Select Tool freehand. Involves too tedious threshold settings if a brush and every image is different.
Perhaps I should try doing this in C1 but I need to Noise Reduce a selected background in Photoshop anyway, so while I'm there...0 -
[quote="Ian3" wrote:
(1) On the local adjustments tab, create a new adjustment layer. Paint in a mask on the part of the image you'd like to adjust.
....I'm a newbie to C1. Is that via the '+' dropdown list under LOCAL ADJUSTMENTS - Background?
But which type of Layer? New Layer rather than Clone or Heal Layers?
I didn't see it under File > Adjustments drop down list.0 -
Just an ordinary adjustment layer, not heal or clone. And yes, just click the +. The "background" layer is just the basic photo, and obviously can't be deleted or disabled. Clicking + creates a new layer which you can either just leave as being named Layer 1 or give it a more helpful name such as "sky" or whatever.
Ian0 -
[quote="Ian3" wrote:
Just an ordinary adjustment layer, not heal or clone. And yes, just click the +. The "background" layer is just the basic photo, and obviously can't be deleted or disabled. Clicking + creates a new layer which you can either just leave as being named Layer 1 or give it a more helpful name such as "sky" or whatever.
Ian
....Cheers, Ian 😊
And if after trying it I decide not to keep it, I assume there's an option to Save it or Cancel to return to the image without the New Layer. Probably a silly question but I don't want to screw up this particular file.0 -
Yes, it won't screw up the file at all. You can check or uncheck the tick box on the layer to turn it on and off to see whether you like the effect you have created. So better just to turn it off if you are not sure and only delete the layer with the minus button if you are really sure you don't like it.
Ian0 -
I'm afraid that I really don't enjoy using brushes so I have speedily retreated and gone back to my usual workflow which feels far more precise and easier to control. I prefer to be the one deciding precisely which parts to mask rather than the software - It's like driving a car with manual gear shifts rather than fully automatic (although my car's box of tricks has both options).
It's entirely my individual preferences and in no way a criticism of C1.
Perfect Effects 9 is where I will make any adjustments to one of many preset options for that layer created in Photoshop.
But many thanks for your help - It's appreciated 😊0 -
No problem. It depends what you are trying to do, really. But if you want to be in control of the parts of the image affected, doesn't brushing on a mask allow you to do that? Did you try it?
Ian0 -
[quote="Ian3" wrote:
No problem. It depends what you are trying to do, really. But if you want to be in control of the parts of the image affected, doesn't brushing on a mask allow you to do that? Did you try it?
Ian
....I got as far as using the mask brush but it felt like using an aerosol can rather than a pen and I want to see what I doing in precise tight detail. Just a yuk non-tactile experience. As I said earlier, like driving an automatic slush gearbox rather than a manual set of gear ratios on a performance car.
Typically I am selecting the edges of bird feathers and dragonfly wings and foliage leaves etc etc.
Besides, Perfect Photo Suite 9 offers adjustable gradients and blurs etc etc etc and fits into the Capture One > Photoshop > Perfect Photo Suite round trip very well.0
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