Skin tones Nikon D800/600
I am struggling to get pleasing skin tones with either my Nikon D800 or D600 - particularly with infants or young children. I am using the generic D800 profile - tried all the curves, even experimented with profiles of other cameras. I have fiddled with the colour editor and colour balance. When the picture is white balanced using either a grey card ( and I've tried a white card) or a pre-white balance is set in camera the resulting picture to my eyes has an unpleasant orange cast. Out of desperation I have downloaded a trial of Capture NX2 and the cast is gone. The colour may not be entirely to my preference, but it is at least a good starting point.
I know I'm not the only one complaining about the Nikon profiles provided by Capture One, but has anyone any suggestions on how to deal with this - other than move to capture NX or has anyone had any constructive feedback from a support case with Phase One
I've got to add - I really don't want to have to use NX
Cheers
Lotus
I know I'm not the only one complaining about the Nikon profiles provided by Capture One, but has anyone any suggestions on how to deal with this - other than move to capture NX or has anyone had any constructive feedback from a support case with Phase One
I've got to add - I really don't want to have to use NX
Cheers
Lotus
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[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
I can of course see the difference, but the brown-tinted tone of CO is deliberate choice based on user input. Couple that with the use of the "Extra Shadow" film-curve and you have a very strong combination.
Remember you can always change the default color profile to something else (like your own custom ICC)
So you are saying that Phase One made a deliberate choice to tint D800 files brown.
So Capture One ships without an accurate profile for Nikon D800 files. Interesting.
Why does Capture One ship with accurate profiles for other cameras?0 -
[quote="Edward51" wrote:
to me the one on the left looks too red, flat and unnatural. the one on the right looks more realistic color and has nice contrast. I prefer the one on the right by far. I have found that adobe raw conversions give a weird reddish feel to skin whereas Capture One is a much better starting point.
I know the lighting I used, I know the actors skin tone and I'm viewing on a calibrated Eizo monitor.
How exactly can you say that the one on the right is more realistic without knowing what the subject looks like?0 -
as a professional retoucher (happy to supply references!) - i know which file i'd rather start with. i'm talking more about detail and contrast than color - which is an easy thing to adjust. the right looks much more life-like (to me) just slightly underexposed in the software. 0 -
[quote="rave81" wrote:
I prefer the skin tones in D800, the Canon has over saturated red. I guess you're just used to looking at images shot in canon.
I don't see any problem with it.
Both images are the same file and shot with D800.0 -
[quote="Edward51" wrote:
as a professional retoucher (happy to supply references!) - i know which file i'd rather start with. i'm talking more about detail and contrast than color - which is an easy thing to adjust. the right looks much more life-like (to me) just slightly underexposed in the software.
Please explain how you can make an accurate judgement without having seen the subject and the lighting.
I know a thing or two about color. Wella and L' Oreal hair color international ad campaigns among my work.
Also a person from Capture One has admitted that the D800 profile is brown-tinted, so that has been cleared up.
What is needed is an accurate ICC profile for the D800. from there anyone with the right skills in post can give the model a fake tan.0 -
[quote="FredBGG" wrote:
Please explain how you can make an accurate judgement without having seen the subject and the lighting.
He doesn't have to, Fred - this is all subjective, no matter how determined you might be to argue that Capture One's rendering doesn't match your intent and is objectively, empirically wrong for not doing so.
And this brings me to a point I've made more than once recently: the defaults in Capture One are starting points only - Phase One has never laid claim to being able to see into our heads in order to develop profiles that suit each of us individually - and as defaults they clear meet someone's expectations of what a good D800 starting point should look like.
But they're under no obligation to meet your expectations.
So if you don't like the D800 profile as a starting point, change it, or use another profile that is closer to your intent: one great thing about Capture One (and a definite advantage over say, Lightroom) is that it's easy to use other camera profiles - just pick one from the drop-down list.
There'll be one in there that suits. But if there isn't, it's easy enough to fix the default profile...What is needed is an accurate ICC profile for the D800.
Not going to happen. Phase One is on record in this very thread to confirm that the profiles aren't intended to be "accurate" but to be pleasing. (Last post on that page - from Christian).0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
What is needed is an accurate ICC profile for the D800.
Not going to happen. Phase One is on record in this very thread to confirm that the profiles aren't intended to be "accurate" but to be pleasing. (Last post on that page - from Christian).
Keith... but that is not what is claimed on Phase One's website.
quote from Phase One's website:
Capture One Pro 7 is the world’s best raw converter rendering precise colors and incredible detail with support for leading high-end cameras. It contains flexible digital asset management, all the essential adjustment tools and fast performance in one customizable solution.
Also I have used Capture One with many other cameras including Phase One backs. I found that Th 1Ds profile was accurate, the P25+ and other back to be accurate. No fake tan look.
I can find no where on the Phase One website that they say the camera profiles are designed to please and not for accuracy.0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
[quote="FredBGG" wrote:
What is needed is an accurate ICC profile for the D800.
Not going to happen. Phase One is on record in this very thread to confirm that the profiles aren't intended to be "accurate" but to be pleasing. (Last post on that page - from Christian).
Christian... can you confirm that the profiles are not intended to be accurate and thus not reproduce precise colors?
Why not include among the many profiles at least one accurate one for at least the major pro cameras?0 -
[quote="FredBGG" wrote:
Please explain how you can make an accurate judgement without having seen the subject and the lighting.
I know a thing or two about color. Wella and L' Oreal hair color international ad campaigns among my work.
as I said - i was mainly talking about the contrast and detail which looks much better in the C1P screenshot. and for whatever reason the C1P screenshot looks underexposed - maybe the color looks better to you if you increase exposure or brightness alittle. Either way the Adobe color looks "digital" and to me the C1P example you posted looks more like film.
Now getting color accurate out of the box, from a canned profile is almost impossible. You can color manage every step of the way but digital just cannot render every color accurately (especiaaly reds). There's also the variable of light sources and light modifiers - I am old enough to remember adding strips of CTO & CTB's to get accurate color.
That's why when color is essential like product shots - the product is (in Photoshop) color matched manually under a lightbox.0 -
[quote="Edward51" wrote:
as I said - i was mainly talking about the contrast and detail which looks much better in the C1P screenshot. and for whatever reason the C1P screenshot looks underexposed - maybe the color looks better to you if you increase exposure or brightness alittle. Either way the Adobe color looks "digital" and to me the C1P example you posted looks more like film.
"Either way the Adobe Color..."
What Adobe color are you talking about????
Neither of the images were opened in Adobe.
Your suggestion increase exposure or brightness simply turns the skin into a lighter 'brownish color"
Your statement that one looks more like film than the other is rather unfounded. I have shot film for over 30 years
and no film I have used gives people a suntan. Also these comments "looks like film" are rather silly because film stocks produce very different colors from film type to film type.
This problem of the profile having a brownish tint to it (Christian's words) gets worse when shooting an Olive skinned beauty.0 -
[quote="FredBGG" wrote:
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
[quote="FredBGG" wrote:
What is needed is an accurate ICC profile for the D800.
Not going to happen. Phase One is on record in this very thread to confirm that the profiles aren't intended to be "accurate" but to be pleasing. (Last post on that page - from Christian).
Christian... can you confirm that the profiles are not intended to be accurate and thus not reproduce precise colors?
Why not include among the many profiles at least one accurate one for at least the major pro cameras?
The profiles are designed to balance accuracy with pleasing skincolors, it's that simple.
Our digital backs have more ICC profiles (tungsten, flash, portrait, etc), but as a general rule, the DSLR's will not have more than 1 or 2.0 -
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
The profiles are designed to balance accuracy with pleasing skincolors, it's that simple.
Our digital backs have more ICC profiles (tungsten, flash, portrait, etc), but as a general rule, the DSLR's will not have more than 1 or 2.
Can you explain why Canon files from the 1Ds, 5dII, P25+ open with accurate and similar skin tone in Capture One and the D800 does not.
In a professional work flow an accurate profile is the correct way to work. The Profile should not be by default fabricating a different skin tone. When shooting beauty professionally the most important step in obtaining a good skin tone is the casting. If I choose a model with delicate clear pink skin tones that is the clients demographic or desired look.
Having the profile add a brown-tint (your words) is an amateurish approach. A tinting effect in a camera profile wrong unless it is a secondary option. The brown tint effect IMO should not be in the profile, but a recipe or something like that.
What is really fishy about this is that Capture One has a very useful tool for altering skin tone that start off accurate.
Color editor skin tone tab. However this tool cannot repair the brown tint effect of the D800 profile.0 -
Thanks for the feedback Fred, we'll have a closer look at the profile as time allows.
I think we've had a good spread of opinions regarding this thread topic and, to be frank, the back and forth debate about who's subjective opinion is correct is now just beating a dead horse.
Hopefully we can find time to create a profile that appeases everyone in the future, but in the wise words of old Abe...
“You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.â€0
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