Lens Distortion settings for multiple images?
I often shoot with lenses that C1 does not have automatic lens distortion adjustments for. For example I frequently do some "birding" using a Canon 70-300 DO and C1 does not have any automatic lens distortion adjustment for any Canon 70-300 lens.
Given that I wanted to select multiple images, make some distortion adjustments and have them apply to all of the selected images. That seemed a simple task - select the images, make sure Edit All Selected Variants was checked and make the adjustments. However, when I did that and then rechecked the images individually, it turns out that only the first selected image was actually adjusted.
Is there any way to do what I want to do? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Given that I wanted to select multiple images, make some distortion adjustments and have them apply to all of the selected images. That seemed a simple task - select the images, make sure Edit All Selected Variants was checked and make the adjustments. However, when I did that and then rechecked the images individually, it turns out that only the first selected image was actually adjusted.
Is there any way to do what I want to do? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
0
-
Once you have made the adjustment you think you want to apply to all of the selected images use the Copy and Apply facility in the tool. Using Windows this is done by holding the Shift Key down and clicking the Copy arrow in the tool's menu bar. There is, presumably, something similar for Macs.
Tools function by changing things as you drag sliders and so on and I doubt it is sensible to provide a facility do make on-the-fly changes to, potentially, hundreds or thousands of images. Keeping performance by adjusting one and then batch copy and pasting to the rest seems sensible.
Removal of settings, however, is a simpler matter and can be applied immediately. Likewise setting colours and ratings - no complex calculations to apply for those.
Where something can (and will) be applied to multiple selected images/variants the "Stack" icon will also show a figure for the number of images that will be processed if one goes ahead with the change. That is a useful indicator of whether or not what you are about to do will be applied automatically to all of the selected images.
In some special cases, usually where you are instigating something run as a "batch" process, you might see a message about having multiple images selected and do you want to run the process for all of the selected variants. Try it for lens adjustments by, for example, ticking the correct chromatic Aberration option.
C1 expects to analyse each image separately for CA (and all lens adjustments ideally) so will show a message to the effect that "Edit all selected variants is turned off" (even if you have it set to "on" for general purposes) so do you want to process just the primary or all selected variants? If you select "All" each of the variants selected will be assessed individually. However if you wished you could take a chance on the results and simply use one analysis for all of them.
In general longer lenses tend to be less prone to distortion (except, perhaps, for very long lenses on small compact cameras) and so most corrections for long lenses would probably be for light fall off of of known and consistent colour shifts with variable settings throughout the zoom range and aperture values. Even then the adjustments would likely require an ultra critical need to justify the time and effort to create and apply them.
I too have a 70-300 DO. It can produce some really nice looks but can also be incredibly inconsistent and to be quite frank the DO methodology seems to be unique enough that I doubt the effort of trying to map an adjustment file of "standard" settings would be a very rewarding task. I also find the focusing quite slow especially if the available light is not perfect.
That means that the number of shots that tend to be "soft" and generally challenged in other ways is rather higher than for other lenses. That in turn makes me suspect that getting good adjustments that can be copied amongst the images and give successful results at all times may not be easy.
I would be interested to hear how you get on with it.
HTH.
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
Once you have made the adjustment you think you want to apply to all of the selected images use the Copy and Apply facility in the tool. Using Windows this is done by holding the Shift Key down and clicking the Copy arrow in the tool's menu bar. There is, presumably, something similar for Macs.
First, thank you for taking the time for such a complete reply.
I am aware of the copy-and-paste functionality, but did not think it appropriate since it will copy all of the adjustments in the original image, not just those for lens distortion. All I really want to copy are the lens distortion settings and I have not found any way to copy only those.[quote="SFA" wrote:
Tools function by changing things as you drag sliders and so on and I doubt it is sensible to provide a facility do make on-the-fly changes to, potentially, hundreds or thousands of images. Keeping performance by adjusting one and then batch copy and pasting to the rest seems sensible.
Removal of settings, however, is a simpler matter and can be applied immediately. Likewise setting colours and ratings - no complex calculations to apply for those.
I am surprised that the engineers at CaptureOne did not provide for some functionality to allow for the addition of new lens distortion models, especially since the list of such available lens models is relatively small. And it is not like the 70-300 DO and other 70-300 lenses are not a quality lenses or are rarely used. In fact, of my 4 most commonly used lenses, only 2 are in the lens distortion data set and I would love to be able to extend that.
As to making changes to hundreds or thousands of images, in reality the numbers are much smaller - on the order of 5 or 6 images - since that is the max burst I would normally use when "birding".[quote="SFA" wrote:
In general longer lenses tend to be less prone to distortion (except, perhaps, for very long lenses on small compact cameras) and so most corrections for long lenses would probably be for light fall off of of known and consistent colour shifts with variable settings throughout the zoom range and aperture values. Even then the adjustments would likely require an ultra critical need to justify the time and effort to create and apply them.
I too have a 70-300 DO. It can produce some really nice looks but can also be incredibly inconsistent and to be quite frank the DO methodology seems to be unique enough that I doubt the effort of trying to map an adjustment file of "standard" settings would be a very rewarding task. I also find the focusing quite slow especially if the available light is not perfect.
That means that the number of shots that tend to be "soft" and generally challenged in other ways is rather higher than for other lenses. That in turn makes me suspect that getting good adjustments that can be copied amongst the images and give successful results at all times may not be easy.
I am using the lens on a Canon full-frame so there is no issue about using it on a small camera. I have a copy of Dxo's Optics Pro and it has full distortion settings for this lens on my camera and when I compare the image of a OP corrected image with one loaded into C1 (using the Overlay Tool) it is clear that there is no way to properly correct the image using either the Generic or Generic Pincushion settings. In fact, even at the relatively long distances that I do "birding" there is a large amount of distortion. It would be nice to find some way to correct this automatically.
It is quite true that the lens is soft, but also amenable to moderate sharpening and I have some wonderful shots of birds taken with this lens. I also have the 100-400 (which is supported by C1) and actually prefer the 70-300 because it is just so much easier to handle and keep stable without a tripod. The stabilizer on it is very good and it is capable of taking amazing shots. It is a big disappointment that C1 does not support it. Or even a lens close to it. After all, 70-300 is a popular lens and Canon provides 5 such lenses, one of which is an L quality lens. None are supported by C1.[quote="SFA" wrote:
would be interested to hear how you get on with it.
My immediate thought is to buy a copy of PTLens and see if that will fix this problem. There is a version available that can be used with C1 and my only real concern is that I can not be sure that PTLens will not change the quality of the other corrections done by C1. The alternative, of course, is to just live with what C1 makes available. Fortunately most of my shots with this lens are of nature and the distortion, although considerable, is not something that is easily noticeable since I am not generally using this lens with architectural structures like buildings.0 -
[quote="MikeFromMesa" wrote:
[quote="SFA" wrote:
Once you have made the adjustment you think you want to apply to all of the selected images use the Copy and Apply facility in the tool. Using Windows this is done by holding the Shift Key down and clicking the Copy arrow in the tool's menu bar. There is, presumably, something similar for Macs.
First, thank you for taking the time for such a complete reply.
I am aware of the copy-and-paste functionality, but did not think it appropriate since it will copy all of the adjustments in the original image, not just those for lens distortion. All I really want to copy are the lens distortion settings and I have not found any way to copy only those.[quote="SFA" wrote:
Tools function by changing things as you drag sliders and so on and I doubt it is sensible to provide a facility do make on-the-fly changes to, potentially, hundreds or thousands of images. Keeping performance by adjusting one and then batch copy and pasting to the rest seems sensible.
Removal of settings, however, is a simpler matter and can be applied immediately. Likewise setting colours and ratings - no complex calculations to apply for those.
I am surprised that the engineers at CaptureOne did not provide for some functionality to allow for the addition of new lens distortion models, especially since the list of such available lens models is relatively small. And it is not like the 70-300 DO and other 70-300 lenses are not a quality lenses or are rarely used. In fact, of my 4 most commonly used lenses, only 2 are in the lens distortion data set and I would love to be able to extend that.
As to making changes to hundreds or thousands of images, in reality the numbers are much smaller - on the order of 5 or 6 images - since that is the max burst I would normally use when "birding".[quote="SFA" wrote:
In general longer lenses tend to be less prone to distortion (except, perhaps, for very long lenses on small compact cameras) and so most corrections for long lenses would probably be for light fall off of of known and consistent colour shifts with variable settings throughout the zoom range and aperture values. Even then the adjustments would likely require an ultra critical need to justify the time and effort to create and apply them.
I too have a 70-300 DO. It can produce some really nice looks but can also be incredibly inconsistent and to be quite frank the DO methodology seems to be unique enough that I doubt the effort of trying to map an adjustment file of "standard" settings would be a very rewarding task. I also find the focusing quite slow especially if the available light is not perfect.
That means that the number of shots that tend to be "soft" and generally challenged in other ways is rather higher than for other lenses. That in turn makes me suspect that getting good adjustments that can be copied amongst the images and give successful results at all times may not be easy.
I am using the lens on a Canon full-frame so there is no issue about using it on a small camera. I have a copy of Dxo's Optics Pro and it has full distortion settings for this lens on my camera and when I compare the image of a OP corrected image with one loaded into C1 (using the Overlay Tool) it is clear that there is no way to properly correct the image using either the Generic or Generic Pincushion settings. In fact, even at the relatively long distances that I do "birding" there is a large amount of distortion. It would be nice to find some way to correct this automatically.
It is quite true that the lens is soft, but also amenable to moderate sharpening and I have some wonderful shots of birds taken with this lens. I also have the 100-400 (which is supported by C1) and actually prefer the 70-300 because it is just so much easier to handle and keep stable without a tripod. The stabilizer on it is very good and it is capable of taking amazing shots. It is a big disappointment that C1 does not support it. Or even a lens close to it. After all, 70-300 is a popular lens and Canon provides 5 such lenses, one of which is an L quality lens. None are supported by C1.[quote="SFA" wrote:
would be interested to hear how you get on with it.
My immediate thought is to buy a copy of PTLens and see if that will fix this problem. There is a version available that can be used with C1 and my only real concern is that I can not be sure that PTLens will not change the quality of the other corrections done by C1. The alternative, of course, is to just live with what C1 makes available. Fortunately most of my shots with this lens are of nature and the distortion, although considerable, is not something that is easily noticeable since I am not generally using this lens with architectural structures like buildings.
Mike,
If you use copy and paste at the TOOL level only the settings for that tool are applied. Just what you want I think.
You can also still use the C&P for the entire image if you wish and disable all but the lens adjustments but there would seem to be little point based on the description of what you want to achieve.
None of the C1 tools I can think of attempt parallel adjustment calculations for multiple images. Even if the compute overhead were to be acceptable on some machines it would probably still not be a safe approach to adopt without some very specific programming constraints. You or I might never select more than a handful of images to adjust simultaneously but you can can be sure that others would and then moan like crazy about a wide array of perceived performance issues.
There have been many discussions in these forums about lens adjustments and how to obtain adjustments for currently untested new ones. The answer is to request them through a Support Case and the developers will consider them based on user demand and lens availability to them. The C1 lens analysis is perhaps a little more technically oriented in its approach than others and so not really suitable, we are told, for end users to dive in. That said there is nothing to stop us making some adjustments and saving them as presets if we think we know what we are doing and wish to do so. You may need to create separate ones for different f stops and, in the case of zooms, zoom lengths. There may well be more too it than that for anyone using bodies with different sensor formats.
If you think the lens has distortions that require some very specific fixes then raise the Support Case and get Phase to assess the demand.
Here is a review of the lens with some test measurements and comparative observations.
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/54 ... ff?start=1
By the way, my comment about small cameras was in reference to things like compacts and mirrorless cameras, not DSLR types with small bodies or small sensors, though of course one's impression of a lens may well be influenced by the sensor size that it is feeding.
For compact cameras them manufacturers have taken to relying on software to make lenses work at sizes and speeds that would not otherwise be viable using straight optical physics. Even then the majority of the "fixing" on a zoom, applied in camera, occurs at the wide end. My Canon S95 compact for example seems to have little or no adjustment applied once the zoom is at or above the 50/60mm equivalent. Perhaps modern super zooms require some at the long end too. I don't know, I don't have one. There was a time when most only shot jpg so the matter was dealt with in camera. Nowadays I am not sure if that is still the case.
Grant0 -
Thanks for the link. I remember seeing this review some time ago but it will be good to re-read it. As I recall that review did say that there was considerable distortion beyond 200 mm and I am frequently shooting at the 275-300 mm end of the lens.
As for the lens itself, my copy is truly soft wide open and I shoot at 8.0, 7.1 if the light is low. At those apertures I find the lens can produce very good images. Dxo, which specializes in lens distortion adjustment, also offers lens specific lens softness sharpening and, with that or some other minor sharpening, the lens can produce images as good as my 100-400. Sometimes better because I always have a problem with a very long lens unless I am using a tripod. My hands are not as steady as they once were. And I have also found that the C1 sharpening is quite good. It may be my imagination or it may be my total lack of experience when I started doing this kind of thing but it seems to me that the tools like C1 and Optics Pro that are now available are much better than they used to be and there is much less need for plugins. I have about a half-dozen Topaz plugins but I rarely use them anymore.
I will submit a support request for that lens although I do not expect the engineers to make much of an effort. In reality I do not think there are that many people using this lens. I like it, but often people think I am crazy for using it given that it is almost the same price as the 100-400.0 -
Mike,
I too like the lens for many of the same reasons as you - but only when it is predictable!
I bought mine used - well used I think, by a photo journalist. One day it got very wet and the zoom mechanism became "strange".' Seems it is a sort of cardboard inside.
I sent it off for service which, it turned out, meant a return to Canon.
When it came back it was obvious that something was not right. So I returned it via the service agent and it was back within a few days fixed and calibrated. It seems that something had broken between the original service and me getting my hands on it.
So it had 2 repair activities and 2 re-calibration activities and yet in no time (without getting soaked in a rain storm) the results were, once again, inconsistent.
For relatively static subjects it seems fine. Travelling light at the time a few years ago I took it to Australia on holiday with a 400D body and got some good enough results.(Most of the time). Some are really excellent and show the best aspects of the lens. But use it in average light or in action situations and the results seem to be random, even with a 1D3 which, in theory, should be a good combination of a similar age to the lens.
So the C1 realted issues, as I see it, is that the DO is not a normal lens in the general way of things and seems to have variable success factors. It also seems to be less widely used (even if it may seem to be widely owned) than most lenses.
If that is correct the commercial case for investing and providing lens correction is not very strong - especially as it is now an 11 year old released design and the concept of DO had not exactly taken off in that time.
I like it fir the same reasons you do. Small size (though not light of course) and convenience with some nice effects when it works at its best. Good for portraits too. But not so critical a part of my toolkit that I feel a desperate need for lens correction.
If I ever manage to get it to return to decent focusing accuracy and speed (and so start to use it more often) I might change my mind!
BTW, I agree that it takes sharpening well - but then to be brutally honest it really only brings it back to where it should have been to start with. Or where a different lens would have got us without the effort.
(As background I should probably mention I also have an old FD mount 600mm which can produce some astounding results, for the price I paid for it, in the right circumstances. Greatly helped by the C1 CA correction. Get it slightly wrong and it's horrible - manual focus matters. I have a similar love/hate relationship with the DO.)
Grant0 -
I typically take 4 lenses with me when my wife and I go on vacation. My main lens is the Canon 24-105 and that is the lens that normally stays on my camera (Canon 5D3). I also take a Sigma 12-24, the Canon DO and the Canon 100-400. I have other lenses but these pretty much cover all of the ranges I need and anything else is really unnecessary.
Obviously I use the 12-24 often when inside buildings or when there is not much room to back up enough to get the shots I want. I use the 70-300 for almost all of the rest. The 100-400 is almost exclusively for birding when I have a tripod.
As far as usage percentages I suppose the 24-105 constitutes 50-60% of my shots, the 12-24 and the 70-300 about 15-20% each and the 100-400 the rest.
Fortunately for me I have never had a real problem with the 70-300 although I do agree that sharpening only brings the lens back to where it should have been to begin with. Nonetheless I don't think a 70-200 is long enough for the uses I have and there are no other 70-300 lenses that C1 has auto correction for. And I suppose that is what most surprises me. Why does C1 not have any 70-300 auto adjust lenses? Not even the L lens. I am not saying that I would buy one just because there was auto adjust for it but it just does not seem like C1 even worries about that auto correction feature.
Still I should not complain. If I did not like how C1 treated my photos I would be using a different tool and I should be happy that I have software that (mostly) does what I like.0
投稿コメントは受け付けていません。
コメント
6件のコメント