Capture One 7.2.2 Extremely Unstable on Windows 8.1 x64
I downloaded a trial copy of this software 10 days ago, and to date it has crashed 5 times. 4 times with graphics acceleration enabled, and once with it disabled. When I set OpenGL graphics acceleration to never it crashed less than an hour later (today) while sitting minimized in the task bar. There is no pattern that I can see when it crashes, and it seems there is no stress on the system when it does.
Any thoughts on a resolution? How responsive is PhaseOne to addressing these issues? It seems pretty hard at this point to make a decision to buy this software when it crashes in less than an hour of use. No, I have not initiated a Case on the issue but will. My last change was to update the motherboard BIOS and I am running 20 minutes so far since I did that. Fingers crossed.
I have run Microsoft Process Explorer while using C1P7 and nothing seems to be overtaxed. Response is great -- very quick.
Details:
CPU: AMD FX-8350, not overclocked, Optimized defaults loaded in BIOS. Supports SSE4.2 and AVX for OpenCL.
CPU RAM: 16 GB, but seems to only use about 7 GB.
GPU: Radeon HD-7770, latest driver Catalyst 14.4, with OpenCL 1.2.
GPU RAM: 1 GB GDDR5, and seems to use about 400 MB
C: Samsung 840 Pro, 128 GB
Photoshop Elements 11, Lightroom 5.4, Qimage Ultimate v2014.236, all run without crashing.
Any thoughts on a resolution? How responsive is PhaseOne to addressing these issues? It seems pretty hard at this point to make a decision to buy this software when it crashes in less than an hour of use. No, I have not initiated a Case on the issue but will. My last change was to update the motherboard BIOS and I am running 20 minutes so far since I did that. Fingers crossed.
I have run Microsoft Process Explorer while using C1P7 and nothing seems to be overtaxed. Response is great -- very quick.
Details:
CPU: AMD FX-8350, not overclocked, Optimized defaults loaded in BIOS. Supports SSE4.2 and AVX for OpenCL.
CPU RAM: 16 GB, but seems to only use about 7 GB.
GPU: Radeon HD-7770, latest driver Catalyst 14.4, with OpenCL 1.2.
GPU RAM: 1 GB GDDR5, and seems to use about 400 MB
C: Samsung 840 Pro, 128 GB
Photoshop Elements 11, Lightroom 5.4, Qimage Ultimate v2014.236, all run without crashing.
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Write our Support sooner rather than later. They'll get you up running.
Be sure to include logs and crashreports if possible.0 -
[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
Write our Support sooner rather than later. They'll get you up running. Be sure to include logs and crashreports if possible.
I submitted a Case on the issue today. Unfortunately I did not save the crash logs, but will if it happens again. I have submitted them each time it crashed and that window popped up prompting me to do a crash report. They should be there somewhere, linked to my e-mail.0 -
[quote="Ron AKA" wrote:
I downloaded a trial copy of this software 10 days ago, and to date it has crashed 5 times. 4 times with graphics acceleration enabled, and once with it disabled. When I set OpenGL graphics acceleration to never it crashed less than an hour later (today) while sitting minimized in the task bar. There is no pattern that I can see when it crashes, and it seems there is no stress on the system when it does.
Any thoughts on a resolution? How responsive is PhaseOne to addressing these issues? It seems pretty hard at this point to make a decision to buy this software when it crashes in less than an hour of use. No, I have not initiated a Case on the issue but will. My last change was to update the motherboard BIOS and I am running 20 minutes so far since I did that. Fingers crossed.
I have run Microsoft Process Explorer while using C1P7 and nothing seems to be overtaxed. Response is great -- very quick.
Details:
CPU: AMD FX-8350, not overclocked, Optimized defaults loaded in BIOS. Supports SSE4.2 and AVX for OpenCL.
CPU RAM: 16 GB, but seems to only use about 7 GB.
GPU: Radeon HD-7770, latest driver Catalyst 14.4, with OpenCL 1.2.
GPU RAM: 1 GB GDDR5, and seems to use about 400 MB
C: Samsung 840 Pro, 128 GB
Photoshop Elements 11, Lightroom 5.4, Qimage Ultimate v2014.236, all run without crashing.
Ron, no idea but your crash rate is about the same as I experience from Firefox! 😉 Very different from my experiences with Capture One. Of course I also run Win 7 Pro rather than Win 8.anything.
I am aware through other channels that MS 'advancements' , like Apple's, sometimes require a leap of faith that is not always repaid. If (or when?) MS can prove that MS applications deliver absolute stability on Win 8.x we might look for further common solutions. Right now Win 8 does not convince me even though a good friend of mine - far more technically skilled and aware and capable than I am - reckons it is fine.
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="Ron AKA" wrote:
Photoshop Elements 11, Lightroom 5.4, Qimage Ultimate v2014.236, all run without crashing.
Right now Win 8 does not convince me even though a good friend of mine - far more technically skilled and aware and capable than I am - reckons it is fine.
Because all my other applications run fine, I find it hard to blame Win8.1. I'm starting to think it may have something to do with screen blanking or power saving when the computer is left unattended. That is what seems to bring on a crash the fastest -- not using the PC at all and letting the screen go black. You wake it up and then as soon as you click on anything in C1P7 it crashes. Perhaps it is already crashed, but that brings up the crash report screen. I've saved two more of them since the last post...0 -
[quote="Ron AKA" wrote:
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="Ron AKA" wrote:
Photoshop Elements 11, Lightroom 5.4, Qimage Ultimate v2014.236, all run without crashing.
Right now Win 8 does not convince me even though a good friend of mine - far more technically skilled and aware and capable than I am - reckons it is fine.
Because all my other applications run fine, I find it hard to blame Win8.1. I'm starting to think it may have something to do with screen blanking or power saving when the computer is left unattended. That is what seems to bring on a crash the fastest -- not using the PC at all and letting the screen go black. You wake it up and then as soon as you click on anything in C1P7 it crashes. Perhaps it is already crashed, but that brings up the crash report screen. I've saved two more of them since the last post...
Hmm.
I would suggest opening a Support Case so that you can work with the support team to identify what is going on through the log files and so on.
Are you running the 64bit version of C1?
It's not at all uncommon for new versions/releases of operating system to arrive with a few undocumented changes or "features" that may be deep in the code and only affect the way that things work under certain very specific circumstances.
Are you by any chance running an external drive that C1 needs to access?
Is the machine Hibernating or just sleeping when it shuts down - or is it just the screen turning off?
There are so many variables in the equation, not all of which are used by all applications, that I am often surprised when anything runs at all!
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="Ron AKA" wrote:
[quote="SFA" wrote:
I would suggest opening a Support Case so that you can work with the support team to identify what is going on through the log files and so on.
Are you running the 64bit version of C1?
Are you by any chance running an external drive that C1 needs to access?
Is the machine Hibernating or just sleeping when it shuts down - or is it just the screen turning off?
Grant, I have sent in a Case but not heard back yet. Just sent earlier today. Yes, according to the Help, About, screen it is 64 bit. I do run an external 3TB network connect drive, Western Digital My Book Live. It is set up to back up new files on the computer, but I do not go to it for any data. I have the Windows Power Management set for Performance. I also put a 5 hour time delay on turning the screen off. It was not off on the last crash. I guess I still have to check the BIOS to make sure it is not doing some kind of power management thing independent of Windows. It didn't use to be, but I updated to the latest BIOS today, so it will be reset to default -- whatever that is.0 -
It should be interesting to see what comes of this.
To give an example of obscure and difficult to spot problems ...
A few years ago now a windows based (most probably commonly used on XP back then being a business application, maybe some Vista) started seeing very occasional reports of hanging and crashing and the in comapny IT support(s) were always stumped for a solution. (Other then the typical 're-image' solution that corporate IT favours.)
Users would observe that their machine did not work but those of colleagues, with apparently identical set up and settings, were working fine. Lots of head scratching ...
Purely by chance one day someone mentioned that the only thing they had done before the program started to (sometimes but no always) play up, was to change their default network printer setting. I certain circumstances (never completely understood) changing a networked default printer was enough to have the application playing up somewhat randomly. There may have been some commonality for which printer family caused the problem but I don't think that was ever proven conclusively.
The chances were that something odd was going on in some part of Windows (iirc the application when it had it problems was trying to deal with Excel based files - a common activity for it) a long way under the skin. No one expected that Microsoft (Windows or Office applications) developers would be interested in fixing it so a work around was devised for an immediate solution for the day to day issues with a fix in the code for later versions (which used new development tools anyway but the coder cutters included something that they should not have needed to consider on a 'just in case' basis).
Sometimes one has to obtain useful insights from obscure places.
I'm hoping that the story was not too OT as an example of the challenges that support organisations will only be able to learn about through some form of direct involvement.
Grant0 -
Hi Ron AKA,
I've no Problems with CO 7.2.2, i've also Win 8.1 x64.
I Use CO 7.2.2, Bridge CS6, Photoshop CS6, Thunderbird, FireFox & iTunes at the same time for months without crashes.
So,
i think you have a Driver Problem, even your GPU is very Slow , the HD 7770 only has 640 Shaders and only a 128 bit Memory interface it's a Low End Gaming card not a Compute Card.0 -
[quote="Tom-D" wrote:
I've no Problems with CO 7.2.2, i've also Win 8.1 x64. I Use CO 7.2.2, Bridge CS6, Photoshop CS6, Thunderbird, FireFox & iTunes at the same time for months without crashes.
So, i think you have a Driver Problem, even your GPU is very Slow , the HD 7770 only has 640 Shaders and only a 128 bit Memory interface it's a Low End Gaming card not a Compute Card.
It is good to hear from someone using Win8.1 that is not having crashing problems. That would appear to rule out Win8.1. I see you use a Radeon AMD R9 290X graphics card. What version of drivers are you using? I was on version 13.12 but had upgraded to 14.4 before C1P7 was installed. One of the main changes in 14.4 is support for OpenGL 4.4, instead of 4.2 in version 13.12. On the other hand I believe C1P7 is using OpenCL, and it should be unchanged at version 1.2. I have a couple of choices with drivers. I could try going back to 13.12 or going up to the 14.6 Beta. Another user of C1P7 reported in another forum using the Beta driver with the graphics card you have. (Or, is that other user, Pictus, you?) In any case he reports no crashes either.
Setting OpenCL Graphics Acceleration to Never, does not change anything. It still crashes. I have also tried setting the Preview resolution down to 1280 instead of the default 2560. No luck there either.
I kind of discount the graphics card performance as being an issue. I use MS Process Explorer () to monitor the CPU and GPU. The only software prior to C1P7 that seemed to actually use the GPU was Musemage. It was specifically written to maximize use of the GPU. It perhaps used 500 MB GPU RAM and 25% GPU loading. Lr and PSE Elements, use essentially zero GPU and no extra GPU RAM. When I had OpenCL Graphics Acceleration set to Auto, I monitored the GPU and found close to zero loading again on the GPU, but GPU RAM use was up to 400-500 MB. It gave no indication of being taxed at all. Musemage taxed the GPU more.
Again, thanks for the help. I would be really interested in your comments on the graphics driver. What you use, and what you think? Interestingly C1P7 was crashing about every 20 minutes or so while minimized to the task bar yesterday. Today it has stayed up for a couple of hours and not crashed once... Perhaps the cold reboot from yesterday to today did something... When C1P7 crashes I just start it again, and don't reboot.0 -
Ron,
Are you using catalogues, sessions or both?
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
Are you using catalogues, sessions or both?
Hi Grant,
I just let C1P7 create one default Catalog of my complete Pictures directory. For now I have just been navigating using the traditional Folders. No Sessions being used that I am aware of.
This software is playing Jekyll and Hyde with me. Yesterday it was crashing every 20 minutes or so. I think I sent in 6 Crash reports. Today after the computer was off overnight, it has not crashed once. That was running graphics drivers 14.4 and OpenCL set to Auto in the morning. This PM I did a thorough uninstall of the 14.4 drivers and did a fresh install of the latest 13.12 drivers. Still running with OpenCL on, and like this morning no crashes!
All I can figure is that some poison process was running in the background yesterday and because I was not doing a cold reboot after the crash, it was still there and in minutes was killing C1P7 again. Don't know how else to make sense of it. Either that or something is corrupted in the process of C1P7 crashing that is only fixed by a full cold reboot.
Will keep running the 13.12 drivers to see if I can get a couple of days crash free. Not a peep out of PhaseOne support though on the case I initiated.0 -
Hi Ron,
A full boot is often useful I find, though less necessary with more recent operating system versions than it used to be a decade or two back!
One thing that it can help with is clearing the cache of any working files that may be conflicting in some way - or may have gone AWOL when some other file in a suspended working environment still has a link it or them and expects to see them.
I get fairly regular crashes with Firefox but is usually seems able to recover quite well.
My Broadband Wi-Fi has a habit of dropping for no obvious reason and that used to require a re-boot to re-establish a solid connection for a few days but more recently I seem to get away with a simple disconnect (it thinks it is still connected but just not to the internet) and re-connect.
Flash fails more regularly than I would like and may have something to do with some issues with Firefox and attempts to display on-line ads - possibly rather badly presented ads. But at least it does not usually crash the machine as used to be the case a few year ago!
But C1 gives me no evident problems (other than one last year that I have mentioned elsewhere and was the result of a somehow corrupted edit file) so I know it should be possible to obtain a robust and consistent working environment.
But then there is every chance that not one component is the same as your machine and that there could be large differences in the way the OS and drivers work together and so even the C1 code may not be doing completely the same things at the 'core' level on our different machines.
Let's hope the problem is now resolved for you. It might be interesting to compare the pre and post reboot log files although it would take someone with a lot of inside knowledge to make much sense of the comparison.
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
...
A full boot is often useful I find, though less necessary with more recent operating system versions than it used to be a decade or two back!
LOL 😂
Yeah, there is some improvement in software, as there is increasing complexity. Logging off and on again, or more thoroughly restart the system will clear more 'pockets of resistance' so to speak (stacks, paged memory). It is still the way to go after an application crash.
By the way, for me this applies both to Windows and OS X.0 -
I had some problems with C1 crashing on Windows 7.
The problem went away when I changed my anti-virus software.
Just can't remember if I had Komodo or Avast anti-virus at that time.
Anyhow, now I use F-Secure and everything is very stable.0 -
[quote="NN634761468348628868UL" wrote:
I had some problems with C1 crashing on Windows 7.
The problem went away when I changed my anti-virus software.
Just can't remember if I had Komodo or Avast anti-virus at that time.
Anyhow, now I use F-Secure and everything is very stable.
Good point.
Certainly that is something else to consider. A-V software is prone to producing false positives, sometimes only for a single update day. Which is one reason I do not enable automatic fixing of 'reported' problems. I prefer to take an opportunity to assess the reported issues first.
Grant0 -
[quote="NN634761468348628868UL" wrote:
I had some problems with C1 crashing on Windows 7.
The problem went away when I changed my anti-virus software.
Just can't remember if I had Komodo or Avast anti-virus at that time.
Anyhow, now I use F-Secure and everything is very stable.
When I put this last computer together, I decided to go with Microsoft Defender for AV. I got tired of AV conflict issues. Can't say in this case that Defender is not the problem, but it would be the first time it has caused issues.
Got a suggestion from PhaseOne support today to create a new Catalog. C1P7 had been running for three hours on the rolled back 13.12 graphics driver this AM before I did that. It has now been running 7 hours with the new catalog (which only has 6 images in it), and has not crashed yet. It did crash once last night running the rolled back drivers, but on the other catalog, which has about 23,000 files in it. Too early yet to say it is solved though...0 -
OK
Some strange things come up.
I've already trying the new AMD Catalyst !BETA! driver 14.6 CR2.
The Driver is working fine with CO 7.2.2 but i've 3 Chrashes, (What? he say it's working fine?)
Yes it's working fine, i've a OC (Overclocking) Gaming Card (GPU) (MSI R9 290X Lightning).
I've had to OC my card for stable Image editing, My Memory Voltage was too low, i've got a Blackout 3 times.
Back in past, Catalyst V 13.12 was the best driver, without crashes.
14.6 Beta (without CR2) was also good.
For deinstall Videocard Drivers i Prefer DDU (Display Driver Uninstaller)
If You want a rockstable Image editing system you have to buy a Nvidia Quadro or a AMD Firepro Card with certified Drivers.0 -
[quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
[quote="SFA" wrote:
...
A full boot is often useful I find, though less necessary with more recent operating system versions than it used to be a decade or two back!
LOL 😂
Yeah, there is some improvement in software, as there is increasing complexity. Logging off and on again, or more thoroughly restart the system will clear more 'pockets of resistance' so to speak (stacks, paged memory). It is still the way to go after an application crash.
By the way, for me this applies both to Windows and OS X.
You may be very close to the real issue here. Since going back to the AMD 13.12 drivers I have had two crashes in 2 days. Both days it was late in the day after it had been started cold in the morning. One crash was at 8:50 PM, and the one last night at 9:30 PM. I can't make a lot of sense of the automatically generated crash reports, but I do recall seeing something like a stack overflow error message. Perhaps some memory buffer is not being cleared out as it should be?0 -
[quote="Tom-D" wrote:
I've already trying the new AMD Catalyst !BETA! driver 14.6 CR2.
The Driver is working fine with CO 7.2.2 but i've 3 Chrashes, (What? he say it's working fine?)
Yes it's working fine, i've a OC (Overclocking) Gaming Card (GPU) (MSI R9 290X Lightning).
I've had to OC my card for stable Image editing, My Memory Voltage was too low, i've got a Blackout 3 times.
Back in past, Catalyst V 13.12 was the best driver, without crashes.
14.6 Beta (without CR2) was also good.
While I was overclocking this PC, I returned it to normal some months ago, before installing C1P7. Since the issue started I have also updated the Asus BIOS to the latest version and restored it to Optimized Defaults. Will try running it on 13.12 for a while to minimize the changes while PhaseOne support is looking into it. Changing to a new Catalog hasn't seemed to have helped. If I get desperate, I guess I will try the Beta driver. I see AMD are reporting issue with the 14.4, but claim they have fixed them...0 -
Just as an update, I have been running the AMD version 13.12 driver for some time. Nothing has changed. Capture One Pro 7 is still crashing once or twice a day. PhaseOne support have responded a few times to the case initiated, but none of the suggestions has resulted in any change to the crash frequency. Some questions?
How do issues like this get resolved, and how long does it take? Or do users learn to live with them? I took a leap of faith and purchased the software, and am now wondering if I made a serious mistake...0 -
As a further update PhaseOne support has told me that they have identified three independent causes of my frequent crashes. Two are to be corrected in a new version which is to be released very soon. The third cause will not be corrected, but the new release is to include more sophisticated crash reporting diagnostics. The hope is that the specific cause will identified with the new diagnostics reporting system, and corrected in a subsequent release.
Short story? No immediate fix, but there is still some hope... With a little luck, the coming release will at least reduce the frequency of crashes.0 -
Glad to hear they have responded and youve got a resolution. It gives you a bit of faith in the support as ive had issues with other software vendors and other than a generic email telling me to clean my cache and temp files I get no response. Im also running windows 8.1 x64 with Nvidia SLI graphics (which I would expect to cause all sorts of issues) but everything is running smoothly (so far!) and this is the first time ive really put it through its paces by editing a full wedding with it (the results are outstanding compared to lightroom by the way!). 0
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