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Newbie Q: workflow hint concerning variants

Hartmuth Steffens
I have trouble understanding the concept of variants.
What I want to do is: I want a JPG version of my RAW originals (including the editing I applied), and additionally I want a b&w version, too.
Do I have to have two variants then?

Dumb question? - be patient 😊
otherwise I thank you in advance
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  • SFA
    In Capture One terms a variant ia an alternative edit instruction set for an original file. The original file may be a RAW file or a jog or a TIFF, DNG .... anything that is supported for editing.

    A vaitnof the original will logicall be a different edit (in some way) but may just be a copy. Of the same sedits.

    If you make another copy of the original file that is NOT a variant in Capture One terms EXCEPT that is you are working with MULTIPLE FILES at the same time whatever images are open in the collection as ALL collectively referred to as Variants - just not variants of each other.

    You jpg version of you RAW files (and presumably e B&W is jpg too?) would be the result of an OUTPUT process or perhaps (but less good in my opinion) an Export Variant activity.

    Typically the baest way to achieve that would be to make and edit of your raw file that you will use for the jpg and then perhaps make a clone of that variant as the basis for you B&W output. So you would have the original RAW file and 2 different edits - all three of which are called Variants in C1 terminology. As indeed they are ...

    I would suggest that you don't become too concerned with the terminology. Just work out what you want to do to satisfy you needs and later everything will start to fit into place in terminology terms.


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Ste-1
    Not a dumb question - we're all on a learning curve here!

    As grant has said, a B&W conversion is an editing process; converting to JPG is an output process done once your edits are done (and will include your edits).

    I recommend you do your colour edit on your RAW file first, then create a new variant of this and convert this to B&W as you like (making any further adjustments needed to make it look awesome). In your viewer you should have the original RAW in colour and variant in B&W next to it. Then finally you can export both your RAW colour edit and your B&W variant as JPGs.

    Hope this helps!

    Stephen
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  • HansB
    I avoid the use of the term 'original' in CO (and LR).

    The main reasons (there are more) are:

    - Import an image, create an additional variant from this 'original', and delete the 1st one. You don't delete the original. Just a 1st variant. There is no technical difference between the 1st ('original') and the 2nd variant.
    - You can promote, demote, and re-order the variants of an image. If one was the 'original', you would lose track.
    - In CO's menus, nothing refers to an 'original'. Everything is done with and on variants.

    Therefore any image in CO is a variant. Calling one of them 'original' is misleading, considering the way CO works.

    The closest to an 'original' is an unedited variant, which can be created as a 'new variant' at any time. But again, technically, this is just an unedited variant.

    iF I'd use the term 'original', I would use it only for the one underlying raw-, tiff-, jpeg-image file that is the base for all the variants created. CO never applies any changes to this image file, and there is only one, no matter how many variants are created. The only situations where CO really can/will do something with the original (no 'quotes') is on import (copy/move the image file to a new location(s)) and on complete removal (delete/move the image file to trash).

    Maybe it takes a moment to get used to it, but it is less confusing (long term) and in line with the way CO works.


    For the creation of your jpeg files, everything necessary is already said by Grant and Ste-1.

    There is no reason not to have 2 variants. As no new image file is created with a new variant, there is no waste of disk space. Keeping both variants has lots of advantages. For printing, re-adjusting, creating additional variants based on existing ones, processing higher or lower resolution outputs, and so on. This is part of the workflow CO is made for.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="HansB" wrote:

    iF I'd use the term 'original', I would use it only for the one underlying raw-, tiff-, jpeg-image file that is the base for all the variants created. CO never applies any changes to this image file, and there is only one, no matter how many variants are created. The only situations where CO really can/will do something with the original (no 'quotes') is on import (copy/move the image file to a new location(s)) and on complete removal (delete/move the image file to trash).

    Regards,
    Hans


    I completely agree with you, and I would say that even the "original" is not, as it is already processed, from a RAW to a visible image. In addition, C1 applies some adjustments when you open a RAW : for instance sharpening (which is not set to zero), noise reduction which is applied as a function of your camera body and shooting conditions, and so on....
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  • HansB
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    I completely agree with you, and I would say that even the "original" is not, as it is already processed, from a RAW to a visible image. In addition, C1 applies some adjustments when you open a RAW : for instance sharpening (which is not set to zero), noise reduction which is applied as a function of your camera body and shooting conditions, and so on....

    That's exactly why I say
    [quote="HansB" wrote:
    ...
    The closest to an 'original' is an unedited variant
    ...

    and
    [quote="HansB" wrote:
    ...
    iF I'd use the term 'original', I would use it only for the one underlying raw-, tiff-, jpeg-image file that is the base for all the variants created.
    ...


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Ste-1
    HansB & tenmangu81,

    Your points regarding the usage of the term 'original' are points well made, I totally get it. And course it should be clarified that images and their variants are just sets of instructions for how the original (in your terms) image file should be displayed by the software etc.

    However, my use of the term 'original' was done rather loosely because the content and tone of the original question suggested that an overly complex and technical answer probably wouldn't have been so helpful. I think it's important that we try and answer peoples' questions in a way that is understandable for them (maybe I did; maybe I didn't), and not just use it as an opportunity to show everyone how much we know.

    Nomenclature is important, however, we can waste too much time and energy getting bogged down with it. I know, because overly-bloated nomenclature plagues my primary profession (geology) everyday.

    Thanks,
    Stephen
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  • HansB
    Stephen,


    I fully understood the usage of 'original' in your post. And I wrote my post, because I thougt that

    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    ..
    So you would have the original RAW file and 2 different edits - all three of which are called Variants in C1 terminology. As indeed they are ...
    ...

    and
    [quote="Ste-1" wrote:
    ...
    In your viewer you should have the original RAW in colour and variant in B&W next to it.
    ...


    could be a bit confusing or misleading when trying to understand CO's concept of variants and to find a personal workflow (as a 'Newbie').


    To
    [quote="Ste-1" wrote:
    ...
    use it as an opportunity to show everyone how much we know.
    ...

    was not my intention.


    Thanks,
    Hans
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  • Ste-1
    HansB,

    Sure, I'm with you.

    My reply wasn't intentionally to have a dig at you, though reading it back, I can see why it appears that way. No offense intended.

    Thanks,
    Stephen
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  • HansB
    Stephen,

    No offense taken.
    We are all here to help each other.

    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Hartmuth Steffens
    Thanks so far.

    Is there a way to select only the cloned variants of a collection (250 pics)?
    The menu "select only main variant" and "convert selection" seem to work only for one file at a time.
    (I do have checked the "select all variants" option)
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  • Hartmuth Steffens
    Thanks so far.

    Is there a way to select only the cloned variants of a collection (250 pics)?
    The menu "select only main variant" and "convert selection" seem to work only for one file at a time.
    (I do have checked the "select all variants" option)
    0

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