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CaptureOne Pro 7 and Canon lenses

MikeFromMesa
I just purchased CaptureOne Pro 7 and, much to my surprise, found that PhaseOne does not provide a single lens profile for any of the Canon 70-300 lenses. Considering that this is a relatively popular lens (although probably more for amateurs rather than professions) I was surprised and disappointed since one of my favorite lenses is the Canon 70-300 DO.

Can anyone tell me if PhaseOne frequently updates their lens profiles? And do they lean more to lenses that are popular with professionals? Or do they also spend time on lenses that are more enthusiast lenses (like this one)?

I issued a support ticket asking but only got back the sort of canned response you would expect (We are constantly expanding our lens support ...).

I like the software but would really like a lens adjustment module for it since the lens does need some correction.

Thanks.
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  • SFA
    Ah, so there is someone else out there who has a 70-300 DO and actually uses it!

    I think you will find that requests for lens support are considered but there is a lot to do in the way that Phase test and define settings for lens correction and it requires an example of the lens (or maybe more than one - mine can be somewhat erratic at times) in-house to do the analysis.

    So, they need a lens or two to test and enough demand from users to justify prioritising resource for a particular lens in preference to some other lens that people are asking for.

    I have no idea whether there might be sufficient demand to justify doing anything with the 70-300 DO - it's not a new lens and I rather suspect that many purchasers have never (or at least hardly ever) used their purchases. Demand may not be high. I have no idea about availability of a unit for testing.


    Grant
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Same for me, even if I use the 70-300/4-5.6 L IS which is not exactly the same. Little bit disapointed with the fact so few lens from Canon that are really corrected. I saw a lot of Sigma lenses.. for Canon FF format but none from Canon. The curious thing is the best ones are corrected (24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8 aso.. but these doesn't need so much correction) and the "standard" ones aren't in C1 support list and these ones really need a complete correction.
    But ok I have to admit that the lens correction have never been the strongest feature of C1.. although C1 software have to be I guess a "professional solution". Perhaps a big task, but other developers do this in a clever way : i.e Digital Iridient and don't mention Adobe, DxO of course. Hooping C1 will develop this tool in the future ?
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  • MikeFromMesa
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Ah, so there is someone else out there who has a 70-300 DO and actually uses it!
    Grant


    Ha. Yes. Now.

    I bought this lens years ago and, although I liked the size of the lens (it looks like a nice "normal" lens rather than a tele lens) I was disappointed in its sharpness (or lack thereof) and it ended up sitting on my shelf a lot.

    But I recently found that Dxo OP has a lens-specific "softness" module and, when I use that, this lens gives me photos about as sharp as my Canon 100-400 and that is sharp indeed. After that this lens went from being an occasional use lens to one of the 3 lens I take with me on every trip (the others being a Sigma 12-24 and the Canon 24-105). With that lens softness module this has become one of my favorite lenses. The thing is that although I like what OP does with lens correction I have found that CO seems to do a better job on my raw images. Better color better color balance, better lighting adjustments and local adjustments.

    I don't suppose that if I mix the bits together I will get a product that will do both. 😄

    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    I think you will find that requests for lens support are considered but there is a lot to do in the way that Phase test and define settings for lens correction and it requires an example of the lens (or maybe more than one - mine can be somewhat erratic at times) in-house to do the analysis.

    So, they need a lens or two to test and enough demand from users to justify prioritising resource for a particular lens in preference to some other lens that people are asking for.

    I have no idea whether there might be sufficient demand to justify doing anything with the 70-300 DO - it's not a new lens and I rather suspect that many purchasers have never (or at least hardly ever) used their purchases. Demand may not be high. I have no idea about availability of a unit for testing.
    Grant


    It was not so much the lack of a lens module for this particular lens that surprised me. Rather it was the fact that there were no lens correction modules for any Canon 70-300 lenses at all. The 70-200, which are mostly pretty good anyway, are supported but not the 70-300 which made me wonder if it was a question of professional vs enthusiast.
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  • MikeFromMesa
    [quote="Mimot13" wrote:
    Same for me, even if I use the 70-300/4-5.6 L IS which is not exactly the same. Little bit disapointed with the fact so few lens from Canon that are really corrected. I saw a lot of Sigma lenses.. for Canon FF format but none from Canon. The curious thing is the best ones are corrected (24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8 aso.. but these doesn't need so much correction) and the "standard" ones aren't in C1 support list and these ones really need a complete correction.
    But ok I have to admit that the lens correction have never been the strongest feature of C1.. although C1 software have to be I guess a "professional solution". Perhaps a big task, but other developers do this in a clever way : i.e Digital Iridient and don't mention Adobe, DxO of course. Hooping C1 will develop this tool in the future ?


    Yes. I noticed that as well.

    I also noticed that CO Pro 7 has been on sale a lot lately. Last week there was a half-priced sale in the US and, for once, that even included upgrades from Express, not just initial purchases. In addition there is now another half-priced sale. Makes me wonder if CO 8 is coming out soon.

    I find that Dxo Optics Pro does much better lens correction but CO does much better image adjustments. Perhaps you just have to choose one of the two and live with it ...
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  • SFA
    [quote="NN634868059816007378UL" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Ah, so there is someone else out there who has a 70-300 DO and actually uses it!
    Grant


    Ha. Yes. Now.

    I bought this lens years ago and, although I liked the size of the lens (it looks like a nice "normal" lens rather than a tele lens) I was disappointed in its sharpness (or lack thereof) and it ended up sitting on my shelf a lot.

    But I recently found that Dxo OP has a lens-specific "softness" module and, when I use that, this lens gives me photos about as sharp as my Canon 100-400 and that is sharp indeed. After that this lens went from being an occasional use lens to one of the 3 lens I take with me on every trip (the others being a Sigma 12-24 and the Canon 24-105). With that lens softness module this has become one of my favorite lenses. The thing is that although I like what OP does with lens correction I have found that CO seems to do a better job on my raw images. Better color better color balance, better lighting adjustments and local adjustments.

    I don't suppose that if I mix the bits together I will get a product that will do both. 😄

    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    I think you will find that requests for lens support are considered but there is a lot to do in the way that Phase test and define settings for lens correction and it requires an example of the lens (or maybe more than one - mine can be somewhat erratic at times) in-house to do the analysis.

    So, they need a lens or two to test and enough demand from users to justify prioritising resource for a particular lens in preference to some other lens that people are asking for.

    I have no idea whether there might be sufficient demand to justify doing anything with the 70-300 DO - it's not a new lens and I rather suspect that many purchasers have never (or at least hardly ever) used their purchases. Demand may not be high. I have no idea about availability of a unit for testing.
    Grant


    It was not so much the lack of a lens module for this particular lens that surprised me. Rather it was the fact that there were no lens correction modules for any Canon 70-300 lenses at all. The 70-200, which are mostly pretty good anyway, are supported but not the 70-300 which made me wonder if it was a question of professional vs enthusiast.


    C1 lens correction has expanded quite a bit since V7 was released. I think this is part of a trend also found with other applications in the past 4 or 5 years - probably forced by the compact camera gaining quality kudos and demanding corrections to be at all usable.

    However they have, reasonably in my view, concentrated on what one might term the "Pro" lenses in the various ranges plus others that have, for example, received enough requests through the Support Case system to justify inclusion (provided they could obtain sample copies to analyse.)

    My DO, despite a refurbishment and re-calibration ( I was promised when I paid the bill) by Canon is not very consistently sharp at the 300mm end and the AF seems slow. Both of these challenges are unhelpful to much of what I shoot but I do like the results in other circumstances and when there is time to set stuff up.

    For the processing I find there seems to be a very fine balancing point between the sort of 'creamy dreamy' DO look on the one hand and retaining sharpness, at least on APC-C and APS-H equipped bodies. I'm not convinced that higher resolution helps it.

    However in some situations using a far higher than open might expect Sharpness formula seems to do nice things. I'm not sure about colour correction and so on - I suspect it may be challenging with the DO concept on which the lens is based. However one could experiment and create personalised profiles.

    I may need to run some trials now you have reminded me about it ...


    Thanks.


    Grant
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  • MikeFromMesa
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="NN634868059816007378UL" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:


    My DO, despite a refurbishment and re-calibration ( I was promised when I paid the bill) by Canon is not very consistently sharp at the 300mm end and the AF seems slow. Both of these challenges are unhelpful to much of what I shoot but I do like the results in other circumstances and when there is time to set stuff up.

    For the processing I find there seems to be a very fine balancing point between the sort of 'creamy dreamy' DO look on the one hand and retaining sharpness, at least on APC-C and APS-H equipped bodies. I'm not convinced that higher resolution helps it.

    However in some situations using a far higher than open might expect Sharpness formula seems to do nice things. I'm not sure about colour correction and so on - I suspect it may be challenging with the DO concept on which the lens is based. However one could experiment and create personalised profiles.

    I may need to run some trials now you have reminded me about it ...

    Thanks.

    Grant


    As I mentioned my DO sat on a shelf largely ignored for more than a year until I tried the lens softness adjustment for it in Dxo OP. The results were so surprising to me that this lens has largely replaced my Canon 100-400 as a birding lens. It is much easier to carry, much easier to hold steady and much easier to use as a semi-general use lens while I am birding (taking photos of other "targets of opportunity" that happen to crop up while I am waiting for the birds). It went from being an almost unused lens to being one of my most used lenses. I am, for what it is worth, using it on a Canon FF (a 5D3) and I had to adjust where its best focus is using the 5D3 built-in focal point adjustments. I don't have that with the Canon 60D and that means that I cannot get the best out of the lens using it on that camera.

    The problem is, of course, that I have to choose between using OP or C1 since I cannot fix the lens softness with OP, write out a raw image and then adjust it in C1. Too bad. I would even settle for being able to use dng as an intermediate format if only OP wrote that and C1 read it (or the other way around).

    EDIT:

    After posting that last part I thought about it and went to check to see if, perhaps, CO and/or OP actually could read and write dng and, as it turns out, both can. So I suppose I will combine the two editors when processing images from my DO. Sometimes things work out after all.
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  • SFA
    Prompted by this thread I resurrected my lens today - not used since some test shots back in March as far as I can see - and grabbed about 150 shots in my garden this afternoon attached to a 600D. (The 600D is normally paired with a Manual everything Samyang lens to make an inexpensive relatively hi resolution wide angle pairing.)

    The results are all over the place, both AF and manual focus, with or without IS and so on.

    I don't think my copy of the lens would be a good representative for testing. It may be an exception but if not I would not feel comfortable trying to present a lens correction solution based on a single example of this lens. Or even, perhaps, multiple examples.

    When it's good I love it. The rest of the time it is very frustrating.


    Grant
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="NN634868059816007378UL" wrote:
    I like the software but would really like a lens adjustment module for it since the lens does need some correction.

    Thanks.


    IF you like CO7 use it, but don't waste your time with their lens corrections for Canon or Nikon it is not unto par with either Adobe of DXO.
    Just do all your processing in CO7 and then do your lens correction in Photoshop.

    Best of all with Adobe you can make your own lens correction profiles or download other users profiles.
    This is particularly useful for nifty lower priced lenses that are less consistent that higher priced lenses.

    The software for making profiles is free.

    Here for example are CO7 lens correction compared to Photoshop for the very popular 85mm 1.4

    CO7


    Photoshop/ACR


    No comparrison
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  • MikeFromMesa
    [quote="FredBGG" wrote:
    [quote="NN634868059816007378UL" wrote:
    I like the software but would really like a lens adjustment module for it since the lens does need some correction.

    Thanks.


    IF you like CO7 use it, but don't waste your time with their lens corrections for Canon or Nikon it is not unto par with either Adobe of DXO.
    Just do all your processing in CO7 and then do your lens correction in Photoshop.

    Best of all with Adobe you can make your own lens correction profiles or download other users profiles.
    This is particularly useful for nifty lower priced lenses that are less consistent that higher priced lenses.

    The software for making profiles is free.

    Here for example are CO7 lens correction compared to Photoshop for the very popular 85mm 1.4

    CO7


    Photoshop/ACR


    No comparrison


    I have found that both Dxo OP and C1 P7 read and write dng files so I plan to solve the problem by running the images through both. That is, I will take the initial raws, run them through OP with only lens correction/softness enabled, write out dng files, load those into C1 and process them.

    I have only verified that this process will work and do not know if it is a really workable solution but I guess I will find out.
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