Keywords strange behaviour
Right now I am just trying out MediaPro, its the first time for a DAM style tool.
So I followed the basic videos and set up the sidecar sync in C1 (6.2 in OS X 10.6.7) and in MediaPro.
But somehow the whole thing feels a bit buggy.
For example I set up the Keyword hierarchy for locations (eg LOCATIONS -> Japan -> Tokyo -> Shibuya and the same in japanese).
In C1 I added these keywords and imported the files into MediaPro. The keywords get correctly highlighted in MediaPro, but the Keyword hierarchy they are not. I need to assign them again, but then they appear double in the Info tab under keywords.
Same if I go the other way. Import images into MediaPro and type in the keywords in the info tab. They keywords are assigned, but sometimes (not always) the Keyword hierarchy is not assigned and I have to do it manual. But the words I enter in the hierarchy get added into the keyword list.
Some other strange things are: I enter a keyword in the hierarchy but have a type, if I leave the field (eg go one down) and then go back and fix it, the wrong one stays in the keyword list. They should be connected.
Second, in the info tab, if I enter something in japanese and it starts with some letters that were used in an english word the japanese input stops and replaces it with the english word. Same if I have a japanese word with the same writing in hirgana and one to type one in kanji, it is impossible to do. This is a major bug in my opinion.
Overall the Software seems nice, but way too buggy for me to actually pay anything at the moment.
So I followed the basic videos and set up the sidecar sync in C1 (6.2 in OS X 10.6.7) and in MediaPro.
But somehow the whole thing feels a bit buggy.
For example I set up the Keyword hierarchy for locations (eg LOCATIONS -> Japan -> Tokyo -> Shibuya and the same in japanese).
In C1 I added these keywords and imported the files into MediaPro. The keywords get correctly highlighted in MediaPro, but the Keyword hierarchy they are not. I need to assign them again, but then they appear double in the Info tab under keywords.
Same if I go the other way. Import images into MediaPro and type in the keywords in the info tab. They keywords are assigned, but sometimes (not always) the Keyword hierarchy is not assigned and I have to do it manual. But the words I enter in the hierarchy get added into the keyword list.
Some other strange things are: I enter a keyword in the hierarchy but have a type, if I leave the field (eg go one down) and then go back and fix it, the wrong one stays in the keyword list. They should be connected.
Second, in the info tab, if I enter something in japanese and it starts with some letters that were used in an english word the japanese input stops and replaces it with the english word. Same if I have a japanese word with the same writing in hirgana and one to type one in kanji, it is impossible to do. This is a major bug in my opinion.
Overall the Software seems nice, but way too buggy for me to actually pay anything at the moment.
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Hello Gullevek,
Hierachical Keywords maybe are not the ideal items to start with in a DAM because the interchangeability between different programs is nog optimal. Actualy they are 'normal' Keywords with a relation between them. That's why they show up under the 'normal' Keywords also.
When you add a 'normal' Keyword there is no way for a DAM to know the relation so it can not add it to the hierchy, You have to do this by hand.
To interchange metadata with other programs it must be 'inserted' into the image. You can do that by selectin all images and go to the Menubar | Action | Sync Annotation and then choose the option 'Export annotations to original files'. Select all fields you want to Synchronize (i always select them all).
For places there is a much better way BTW, namely the 'Place Finder'! The hierachy will hold there.
All things that has to do with organizing things, i would do in the MP, not in C1.Second, in the info tab, if I enter something in japanese and it starts with some letters that were used in an english word the japanese input stops and replaces it with the english word. Same if I have a japanese word with the same writing in hirgana and one to type one in kanji, it is impossible to do. This is a major bug in my opinion.
This happens on which fields? Indeed strange behavior that i can not reproduce.
Roelof0 -
[quote="rmoorlag" wrote:
Hello Gullevek,
Hierachical Keywords maybe are not the ideal items to start with in a DAM because the interchangeability between different programs is nog optimal. Actualy they are 'normal' Keywords with a relation between them. That's why they show up under the 'normal' Keywords also.
When you add a 'normal' Keyword there is no way for a DAM to know the relation so it can not add it to the hierchy, You have to do this by hand.
To interchange metadata with other programs it must be 'inserted' into the image. You can do that by selectin all images and go to the Menubar | Action | Sync Annotation and then choose the option 'Export annotations to original files'. Select all fields you want to Synchronize (i always select them all).
For places there is a much better way BTW, namely the 'Place Finder'! The hierachy will hold there.
All things that has to do with organizing things, i would do in the MP, not in C1.
Yeah, but if I create the hierarchy in MediaPro, and add the keywords, shouldn't MediaPro be able to match them up. As Keywords are = Keywords in Hierarchy? That is my problem. I understand that the hierarchy is only for this Software, and I do not mind. I just want to use it for more easy keyword assignments. But it seems the program does not really link Hierarchy Keywords and Keywords together, even though it creates the keyword when you create a hierarchy keyword.[quote="rmoorlag" wrote:
Second, in the info tab, if I enter something in japanese and it starts with some letters that were used in an english word the japanese input stops and replaces it with the english word. Same if I have a japanese word with the same writing in hirgana and one to type one in kanji, it is impossible to do. This is a major bug in my opinion.
This happens on which fields? Indeed strange behavior that i can not reproduce.
It happens in all the fields where I can directly input something that has a previous input history.
For example I have the word "Tokyo" in it and now want to enter the japanese word, so I enter in japanese mode "t-o" but the moment I enter the o the the t is already a western t and does not wait for the o to become a japanese to.
The other example is if I want to enter a full word and then convert it to kanji. I entered the word "musashinitta" and because it got interrupted it was stored as this in hirgana, now I wanted to fix it, but when I came to "musa" it converted these into the hirgana form and removed the underline that represents the "convert to kanji" mode. So it was impossible to convert it to Kanji.
Once I am back home I can make screenshots or some small video (if I find out how) to show the error.0 -
[quote="gullevek" wrote:
Yeah, but if I create the hierarchy in MediaPro, and add the keywords, shouldn't MediaPro be able to match them up. As Keywords are = Keywords in Hierarchy? That is my problem. I understand that the hierarchy is only for this Software, and I do not mind. I just want to use it for more easy keyword assignments. But it seems the program does not really link Hierarchy Keywords and Keywords together, even though it creates the keyword when you create a hierarchy keyword.
Hierarchical Keywords were introduced in EM and were not very well implemented. Hierarchical Keywords also create normal keywords (and in EM simultaneous hidden Catalogue Sets). This was to maintain file format compatibility with IView Media Pro 3 (EM's predecessor). But, as you would have found, the reverse link does not apply, so the system easily breaks down. That is why many of us have never adopted Hierarchical Keywords. I was hoping Phase One may have addressed this issue in MP1, but it appears not. Mind you there are probably some logical design issues to resolve first e.g. should you be permitted to use the same keyword in a non-hierarchical sense as well as a hierarchical sense?0 -
[quote="Dave Heap" wrote:
[quote="gullevek" wrote:
Yeah, but if I create the hierarchy in MediaPro, and add the keywords, shouldn't MediaPro be able to match them up. As Keywords are = Keywords in Hierarchy? That is my problem. I understand that the hierarchy is only for this Software, and I do not mind. I just want to use it for more easy keyword assignments. But it seems the program does not really link Hierarchy Keywords and Keywords together, even though it creates the keyword when you create a hierarchy keyword.
Hierarchical Keywords were introduced in EM and were not very well implemented. Hierarchical Keywords also create normal keywords (and in EM simultaneous hidden Catalogue Sets). This was to maintain file format compatibility with IView Media Pro 3 (EM's predecessor). But, as you would have found, the reverse link does not apply, so the system easily breaks down. That is why many of us have never adopted Hierarchical Keywords. I was hoping Phase One may have addressed this issue in MP1, but it appears not. Mind you there are probably some logical design issues to resolve first e.g. should you be permitted to use the same keyword in a non-hierarchical sense as well as a hierarchical sense?
In my Opinion keyword is keyword and the hierarchy should just help to find the proper keyword. Question would rather be, if I assign a sub keyword, should the ones above in the tree be assigned too (eg Location -> Japan -> Tokyo -> Shibuya, if I assign Shibuya should Tokyo, Japan, Location also be assigned).
Right now I try to get along without hierarchy, but it would really help to have one.0 -
[quote="gullevek" wrote:
In my Opinion keyword is keyword and the hierarchy should just help to find the proper keyword. Question would rather be, if I assign a sub keyword, should the ones above in the tree be assigned too (eg Location -> Japan -> Tokyo -> Shibuya, if I assign Shibuya should Tokyo, Japan, Location also be assigned).
What I was trying to say is that if you assign a sub keyword in Hierarchical Keywords the ones above in the tree are assigned too. Not so if you assign the same keyword in Keywords, even though the this keyword is present in a Hierarchical Keyword tree.
Your Location example is a bit more problematic. If I assign Circular Quay, it would be nice for Sydney, NSW, Australia to be assigned too. But if I assign Botanic Gardens (a location I use frequently), that location is not unique and could be in Sydney, Cairns, London, Tokyo, et-cetera. Likewise London is not unique but appears in at least two countries - UK and Canada. Sometimes expecting the software to do too much for you can wind you into a corner.0
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