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From Capture One to Photoshop and back

Simon Hooley
Hi,
I have recently purchased CO Pro and am very pleased with the output and image quality. I run a small studio and wedding business so process 1000s of images over the year. The problem I am having is using photoshop within my workflow and it is giving me a real headache.
Any help and guidance would be very much appreciated as today I almost gave up, but after loading Lightroom it just doesn't stack up anymore.
Thanks again,
Simon
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  • SFA
    Simon,

    Adobe, with the suite of programs they offer, have a vested interest in persuading you to use as many of their products as possible, so they provide forms of compatibility between one product and another.

    The economics of doing the same thing with Adobe products if you are not Adobe are less clear so a different workflow may be required.

    What is it that you do in photoshop that sits in the middle of your perceived workflow? Could it be repositioned? Do you need it at all?


    We should start there I think.


    Grant Perkins
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  • Simon Hooley
    I completely agree with you. I need another workflow that suits this software but after using adobe products for so long it's hard to retrain my mind!
    What I would like I'd to use catalogues (or sessions?) for getting the very best for the image. Then exporting to PS to make the more creative edits and then (this is the bit that's confusing me) returning the image into the catalogue.
    As you mention this might not be the best way and any help would be very useful.
    Ultimately I need all the images in the catalogue preferably in one file.
    I hope this makes sense.
    Thank you,
    Simon
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  • DrLaban
    I'm in the same boat as you after using Lightroom since version 1.
    My brain is slowly giving up the Adobe LR/PS way of working 😊 So if C1 stay stable after the re-install tonight I guess my primary raw developer is C1 from now..
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  • Simon Hooley
    It's certainly easier to get the very best from my camera raw files in C1 and I enjoy the user experience, although I find very difficult to get any work done, what with all the experimenting and exploring I'm doing!
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN634922418989785422" wrote:
    I completely agree with you. I need another workflow that suits this software but after using adobe products for so long it's hard to retrain my mind!
    What I would like I'd to use catalogues (or sessions?) for getting the very best for the image. Then exporting to PS to make the more creative edits and then (this is the bit that's confusing me) returning the image into the catalogue.
    As you mention this might not be the best way and any help would be very useful.
    Ultimately I need all the images in the catalogue preferably in one file.
    I hope this makes sense.
    Thank you,
    Simon



    OK that makes for a clear requirement.

    Now I am unlikely to be the right person to provide suggestions as I don't use Photoshop (I do, once or twice a year maybe, use an equivalent program if I really have to ...) and currently I use V6 C1 as I need to upgrade some hardware to be able to run V7 with any hope of decent performance. The upgrade spec, however, is dependent on a couple of other things and it may be a little while before I can make a decision.

    Of course that means that I don't use the Catalogue feature as it doesn't exist in V6 .

    I do use sessions and often, for my purposes, will have multiple folders in the default Output folder (might as well use is since it is always created). Any images that have been further modified outside C1 will usually be saved back there. However since I mainly shoot events should a sub-project based on one or more of the events come into play I will simply keep output and so on in a separate project area, nothing much to do with C1 other than copying the output to it in the first instance.

    Additionally I use, from time to time, another application that is similar to C1 (but older) which has no catalogue feature. Using sessions I can work on the files wherever they are and save the edit sidecar files locally when I do. That works for me.

    If the output from PS is in a file format that is supported by the C1 catalogue then I would assume that it can be imported. If it isn't then the C1 catalogue may not be the DAM you are looking for in its current form. Could Media Pro do the job for you?

    Rightly or wrongly I have never really got on with DAM systems so the loose session structure suits me fine. For the number of times a fully commented and keyworded DAM would have been useful to me (I did try the catalogue route with LR1 - you had to) I doubt it would have been worth the effort to construct a decent catalogue and if I had the size would have required me to create multiple catalogues anyway. However I realise that is not true for everyone and I may have a change of heart at some point so being able to work either way according to need is a great idea.

    With a bit of luck someone having the same requirements you have will be along shortly to present their suggestions based on using the catalogue functionality. Sorry I'm not in a position to do so myself.


    Grant Perkins
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN634922418989785422" wrote:
    It's certainly easier to get the very best from my camera raw files in C1 and I enjoy the user experience, although I find very difficult to get any work done, what with all the experimenting and exploring I'm doing!



    I find it very easy to relate to this observation ...!


    Grant Perkins
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  • Simon Hooley
    Thank you Grant.
    I appreciate your reply.
    Simon
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I was about to ask the same question myself, but maybe I can help here a little and then amplify your request for some guidance.

    With sessions, you can create a process recipe that will create a TIFF file in your output filter and open that file in photoshop. Because session are based on the file structure, that image automatically shows up in your output folder. If you use the recipe to open the file again, it creates a new TIFF file with a counter added to the file name and then opens it in photoshop. It's not as nice as Aperture or Lightroom where you can simply open the existing file in Photoshop and make additional edits, but it does work.

    I'm at a loss as to what to do with a catalog based workflow. We can create a process recipe that will create a TIFF in the current image folder and then open in Photoshop... all good. But, we then have to find that new file and import it into capture one in order to manage it. If we want to edit again, the process starts over. I did find it a little easier to alway output to the same work folder and then it was easier to find my output, import again and then drag it back to the correct folder. In either cases it's seamless from capture to export, but not back in again for a consistent DAM strategy.

    If I could find a reference for scripting support in CO7, I might try to write a simple script that adds the TIFF to the catalog and then opens Photoshop. I don't know that updates would automatically be recognized, but it's not too hard to regenerate the preview.

    I'm certainly curious if anybody else has thoughts on this? I feel like we are on the edge of an amazing end-to-end solution, but just not quite there yet.
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  • Simon Hooley
    Hi David,
    The last line of your post is exactly my thoughts.
    It will be a magic moment when I can find that suitable work flow. My images are noticeably better with C1 which is why I am trying so hard to make it work.
    Thanks,
    Simon
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I think you mentioned that you already have Lightroom, so here is a somewhat twisted workflow that I have been playing with this afternoon. My RAW catalog managed in Capture One where I do my conversion, image selection and global adjustments that work best on top of the RAW file. Rather than launching Photoshop directly, I'm exporting to a folder that is set to auto-import into Lightroom. I then have all of my final TIFF images in Lightroom and can take advantage of the tight integration with Photoshop and strong printing options. It seems overly complex, but I don't know that I'm doing any redundant work in both applications. I guess the one exception would be DAM, but I don't know that I need to keyword every image I capture. I think I would just reference projects in Capture One for now and do the keywording on my final image in Lightroom. I'm king of thinking out loud, but I feel like I need something usable so I can turn my focus back to shooting until Capture One brings out another release with more end-to-end capabilities.

    I'm still hoping somebody brings up some better ideas or maybe shows me what I'm missing with this blended Capture One and Lightroom solution.
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  • Simon Hooley
    [quote="nusbaum" wrote:
    I was about to ask the same question myself, but maybe I can help here a little and then amplify your request for some guidance.

    With sessions, you can create a process recipe that will create a TIFF file in your output filter and open that file in photoshop. Because session are based on the file structure, that image automatically shows up in your output folder. If you use the recipe to open the file again, it creates a new TIFF file with a counter added to the file name and then opens it in photoshop. It's not as nice as Aperture or Lightroom where you can simply open the existing file in Photoshop and make additional edits, but it does work.

    I'm at a loss as to what to do with a catalog based workflow. We can create a process recipe that will create a TIFF in the current image folder and then open in Photoshop... all good. But, we then have to find that new file and import it into capture one in order to manage it. If we want to edit again, the process starts over. I did find it a little easier to alway output to the same work folder and then it was easier to find my output, import again and then drag it back to the correct folder. In either cases it's seamless from capture to export, but not back in again for a consistent DAM strategy.

    If I could find a reference for scripting support in CO7, I might try to write a simple script that adds the TIFF to the catalog and then opens Photoshop. I don't know that updates would automatically be recognized, but it's not too hard to regenerate the preview.

    I'm certainly curious if anybody else has thoughts on this? I feel like we are on the edge of an amazing end-to-end solution, but just not quite there yet.




    I have been working through a recent shoot using the method David briefly outlined above and it seems to work for me.
    So for anybody interested (probably people migrating from Lightroom) here it is:
    First of all I have created several files on my desktop, these are Email, Facebook and CS Edit. To match these files I have also created several process recipes.
    1.Import into Catalogue and back-up storage
    2.Rate all keepers as 1 star
    3.Edit 1 star rated images to finish
    4.Rate images worthy of further CS editing as 2 star
    5.Export 2 star images as TIFF file into my CS Edit desktop file I created.
    6.Edit these files in CS
    7.Import CS Edit file into my Catalogue and then move the images back into the original file making sure the are 2 star rated.
    8.Create an Album for all 1 and 2 star images
    9.Rate the Album images again from 1-4 (and hopefully a couple of 5's!!)
    10.Export album images onto my 'completed image' drive
    11.Burn completed images to disc for client proofing

    The only extra step from my old work flow is step 7. Using the method above actually has benefits over my old workflow as now I can go back and edit the CS images anytime while only opening CS.

    Thank you David you sent my brain in the right direction.
    Simon
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  • markmullen
    I use CO7 and CS6 together.

    One of my output recipes in CO7 is a full resolution TIFF in Adobe RGB saved into a subfolder in my session Output Folder which is created automatically and is called Photoshop. These files are automatically opened on creation in CS6.

    Once I've done with my editing in CS6 I save the files back as a finished TIFF into the main Output Folder so that they are instantly accessible in CO without having to drill down different folder levels.

    It works for me.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="markmullen" wrote:
    I use CO7 and CS6 together.
    Once I've done with my editing in CS6 I save the files back as a finished TIFF into the main Output Folder so that they are instantly accessible in CO without having to drill down different folder levels.

    It works for me.

    I think the key here that session will immediately recognize the new TIFF file without importing. If working with catalog the TIFF files doesn't appear until you import it. But, your point is good because working in this mode is still very efficient.
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