RAW/NEF?

rmoorlag

2013年02月11日 19:34

There is no such thing a 'a' Nikon RAW file. Every camera model (all other manufacturers also btw) has it's own type NEF.
So all Nikons do generate NEF files but they are all different, nice isn't it?
Media Pro can handle a lot of them but not the most recent ones..

Best is to convert all your legacy RAW files immediately at the start of your workflow to the open documented RAW format DNG (with Adobe DNG converter you can do this for free). Read more on dpBestflow:

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Permanently deleted user

2013年02月12日 05:23

rmoorlag, I'm having trouble understanding your explanation of NEFs. The Nikon Web page "Nikon Electronic Format (NEF)" says, "Exclusive to Nikon cameras, the NEF is Nikon's RAW file format." So, only Nikon cameras can create a NEF file. But not all Nikon cameras generate NEFs and, interestingly, NEF is not the only Nikon RAW format; some smaller Nikon cameras use a different RAW format called "NRW" (= "Nikon RaW" I believe).

If the original poster's question is whether or not Media Pro allows the viewing of unedited NEF images, then he should file a support ticket because I think Media Pro should be able to display previews of unedited NEFs. If his question is whether or not Media Pro allows the viewing of edited NEFs, then I think the direct answer is 'no.' (There are dozens of posts on this forum complaining of the lack of support of edited NEF images.) Phase One says a Nikon user must use Capture One software as the RAW editor to be able to view edited NEF images in Media Pro.

And while DNG conversion might be a good practice for some users, I think it's a matter of opinion as to whether it's the best practice for all users. I as understand it, there are some potential disadvantages to consider before using DNG. These might be minor disadvantages (e.g., an added step, possible loss of model-specific metadata), but they do exist. I haven't made the transition to DNG, and to get around the NEF preview problem (which also exists in Expression Media and apparently began with Mountain Lion on the Mac), I changed my workflow to create JPEG versions of each NEF file â€” a process similar to the original poster's workaround.

Please correct me if I have misstated any facts.

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NNN634266228774943069

2013年02月12日 12:00

Thanks all of you...
As the answer is NO, I hope that a future upgrade will integrate that important feature!!
Peace
daniÃ«l

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Permanently deleted user

2013年02月12日 19:57

[quote="NNN634266228774943069" wrote:

As the answer is NO, I hope that a future upgrade will integrate that important feature!!

Daniel,

Either I have misunderstood your question or you have misunderstood the situation. If you are not using Capture One to edit your NEFs, and if your question is whether or not Media Pro can display preview images of edited NEFs (with edits visible in the preview), then the answer is 'no' now and will always be 'no.' Phase One has already said in this forum that this incompatibility will never be fixed in a future upgrade. Phase One says that you must use the company's own Capture One software to edit your NEFs if you want to see your edits in Media Pro. I'm not sure if it actually works (I use Expression Media, not Media Pro), but that is what the company says.

Can you please clarify your situation? What software are you using to edit your NEF RAW files?

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rmoorlag

2013年02月12日 20:25

There are two different questions in this thread:

In short:
- 1st: is every nef equal (No)
- 2nd: does editing a NEF affect the way it's displayed in MediaPro (No)

In long:

Point 1
Canon camera's generate CR2 RAW files. However, the CR2 that is coming out of a D30 differs from that of a D60, 10D or 300D...

The Nikon Web page "Nikon Electronic Format (NEF)" says, "Exclusive to Nikon cameras, the NEF is Nikon's RAW file format." So, only Nikon cameras can create a NEF file, but not all Nikon cameras generate NEFs; some smaller Nikon cameras use a different RAW format called "NRW" (= "Nikon RaW" I believe).

Most Nikon camera's (DSLR) generate NEF RAW files but my old D70 generated realy other NEF's then my current D90. They both are from Nikon and both are NEF's and still they differ...

So, most RAW files are Camera specific (not only brand specific) and therefore PROPRIETARY. A major challenge with regard to the preservation of digital image files is the long term readability of these file formats.
That's why DNG is such a good idea in my opinion (i think for most users, not some).

Point 2

If the original poster's question is whether or not Media Pro allows the viewing of unedited NEF images, then he should file a support ticket because I think Media Pro should be able to display previews of unedited NEFs.

Most software that is able to edit RAW files like CR2, NEF or DNG is so called PIE ware. It does not affect the original file. Alle modifications are kept in the internal database of the software or it is stored in separate (sidecar) files in XMP format. Media Pro will show NEF's from a D70 or D90 but maybe not (yet) the ones from D600 or D800. Editing a NEF from a D800 does not change this file in a way MediaPro can display it. You have to wait until PhaseOne adds the new camera models to the rendering engine or you can convert the files to DNG.

BTW: PIE stands for Parametric Image Edititing and Peter Krog's can explain both of these items a lot better than i can on dpbestflow:
Roelof

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Permanently deleted user

2013年02月12日 20:43

Roelof,

I understand that the RAW images themselves are not "edited", just the parameters. (Although with Nikon Capture NX edits, I think the parameter changes are stored with the image, not in a sidecar or a database. Or perhaps the database is invisible to me?). And I understand that NEFs can be different for different camera model (I found that out when I moved from a D70 to a D300). But they are all RAW files, are they not? I don't understand the statement, "There is no such thing as a Nikon RAW file." Is this splitting nuanced technical hairs?

But mainly I'm struggling to understand how these nuances (as interesting as they are) pertain to Daniel's question: viewing "edited" NEFs in Media Pro. Let's assume that we all understand that when we talk about an "edited" NEF in the context of DAM software, we are really talking about the embedded JPEG preview used to represent the "edits" made to the NEF. When discussing Daniel's situation, if the end result is that he can't see the expected image ("edited" NEF, i.e., embedded JPEG preview), I'm not sure how a discussion of the different "flavors" of NEFs helps him, considering that previous versions of this software on pre-Mountain Lion Mac systems displayed these embedded JPEG previews perfectly fine. I'm just trying to steer the conversation to a more practical realm (such as your DNG conversion suggestion, which is practical, even if not necessarily the best solution for everyone).

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judophotos

2013年03月18日 18:29

I know this is a late post to this subject but think it is worth adding.

I have been having trouble with MP for some time now with my NEFs where the edits are not showing in the catalogues and cataloguing has taken an extraordinary amount of time. My editing program is Capture NX2 and I am on Win 7 64bit with the images on a Drobo S.

I have now added the Fastpictureviewer codec which works with the Windows WIC and the change is astonishing. Cataloguing is a lot faster it shows all the NEF edits and IPTC that I was also having problems with. I am back to being a fan of MP. This is the link: http://www.fastpictureviewer.com/

You can try this route using the trial but make sure you follow the full instructions and clear out all the old thumbnails using the Windows cleaner detailed in FPV instructions.

I hope this helps

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rmoorlag

2013年03月18日 19:20

FastPictureViewer is mentioned earlier here and other forums, I'm a fan too 😊
Btw, the "FastPictureViewer Codec Pack" is sufficient, you don't have to purchase the complete application.
I purchased mine for 7,83 euro (in 2010)
Roelof

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macsrock

2013年03月18日 19:51

"if your question is whether or not Media Pro can display preview images of edited NEFs (with edits visible in the preview), then the answer is 'no' now and will always be 'no.' Phase One has already said in this forum that this incompatibility will never be fixed in a future upgrade. Phase One says that you must use the company's own Capture One software to edit your NEFs if you want to see your edits in Media Pro."

This quote proves that Phase One is ignorant!
Forcing me to buy more software (that I don't want or like) to see edits in a catalog made by an upgraded version of software that worked until they disabled it.
And I thought Microcrap was a horrible company!

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Permanently deleted user

2013年03月19日 19:14

[quote="macsrock" wrote:
"if your question is whether or not Media Pro can display preview images of edited NEFs (with edits visible in the preview), then the answer is 'no' now and will always be 'no.' Phase One has already said in this forum that this incompatibility will never be fixed in a future upgrade. Phase One says that you must use the company's own Capture One software to edit your NEFs if you want to see your edits in Media Pro."

This quote proves that Phase One is ignorant!
Forcing me to buy more software (that I don't want or like) to see edits in a catalog made by an upgraded version of software that worked until they disabled it.
And I thought Microcrap was a horrible company!

To be fair to Phase One. . . according to others in this forum (for example, see "Media Pro 1 Mac: Will we get manufacturer rendering back?"), the inability to view edited Nikon-edited NEFs (previews) in iView/EM/MP (on a Mac, at least) began with the release of Mac OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) in 2009, still during the Microsoft Expression Media days. (Before that, on OS X 10.4 Tiger or 10.5 Leopard, edited NEF previews were displayed fine in Expression Media.) As I understand it, this problem had something to do with a lack of cooperation between Nikon and Apple (e.g., Nikon not making available to third party developers a NEF codec that was compatible with OS X 10.6), and that the reason that third party programs like FastPictureViewer (for the Windows platform) are able to enable NEF viewing is because Nikon does provide a NEF codec for Windows.

I wasn't aware of the 10.5/10.6 threshold when PO launched Media Pro (I was still a Tiger user), so I was originally upset with PO too. But I do wonder whether PO is doing all it can to improve compatibility between Media Pro and non-Phase One NEF editors.

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HvTFoto

2013年03月20日 09:56

Is the problem really related to Nikon not providing a NEF codec to Apple? I'm on Mac (latest build) and use NX2 to edit my Nikon NEF's and these edits show up just fine in PhotoMechanic! PM is working on a catalog program (and has for a very long time) and when I asked whether the catalog would disply NX2 edits correctly I got the answer that there will be no fifference between the "Viewer" and the "catalog" in this regard. So, if PM can, why can't MP? Having thousands of edited NEF's there is no way I would invest in a program that can't display the edits.

//Hans

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judophotos

2013年03月20日 11:13

Since I posted here on the 18th I am beginning to re-catalogue my 40GB of catalogues using MP configured with the FastPictureViewer codec and would like to add the following:

1. Cataloguing is now considerably faster.
2. I can now work on pictures while MP is cataloguing, something that caused MP to hang before.
3. NEF edits show immediately.
4. Importing and exporting IPTC is working perfectly.
5. With the original catalogues I can now rescan folders to increase the size of the catalogue with better quality thumbnails and previews or reduce the size of the catalogue by reducing the quality of the thumbnails and previews.
6. Even with catalogues as big as 6.1 GB with high quality thumbs and previews they seem to work perfectly. I have, however, reduced those catalogues in size by reducing the quality of the previews to medium.

I must add that the catalogues are located on a NAS and the files are on a Drobo S linked through a USB3 connection. My initial ingesting is through Photo Mechanic which is used as my prime image management program. MP perfectly reflects colour class personalisation too.

So far, I think Media Pro is working as intended, thanks to the FastPictureViewer codec.

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Permanently deleted user

2013年03月20日 15:14

[quote="HvTFoto" wrote:
Is the problem really related to Nikon not providing a NEF codec to Apple?

I don't know. I'm only repeating what others have said. I can't find the exact post, but I believe that Drew from Phase One has stated that technical obstacles related to Nikon's control over the NEF codec (and perhaps MP's reliance on side car files) are the reasons that Media Pro does not (and never will) support NEF previews generated by Nikon software. I'm not sure I have ever seen an authoritative, independent, explanation for the problem. Neither Apple nor Nikon tech support is able to explain it to me.

[quote="HvTFoto" wrote:

I'm on Mac (latest build) and use NX2 to edit my Nikon NEF's and these edits show up just fine in PhotoMechanic! PM is working on a catalog program (and has for a very long time) and when I asked whether the catalog would disply NX2 edits correctly I got the answer that there will be no fifference between the "Viewer" and the "catalog" in this regard. So, if PM can, why can't MP? Having thousands of edited NEF's there is no way I would invest in a program that can't display the edits.

I think I remember that you (or someone else) posted a similar comment last year. (I just downloaded a demo of PM and can confirm that the NEF previews indeed reflect the edits made in NX2.) This is the kind of experience that makes me doubt the veracity of the comments made by Phase One. But no matter the truth, asking for Nikon-edited NEF support in Media Pro is either (1) a waste of time since PO has stated that they will never support it, or (2) moot should PO decide to abandon MP altogether in favor of the enhanced Capture One with a DAM component.

Regarding a PM catalog, it looks like they are making progress and that it will be integrated into Photo Mechanic. According to the Camera Bits web site ("Photo Mechanic - Catalog"):

[color=#0000BF:2a9yqp53]"Now in development!
Photo Mechanicâ€™s Catalog is the same Photo Mechanic you know and love, with an added SQL database that provides top-notch speed and search flexibility, allowing you to search through thousands of photos in seconds. You can scan for photos and movies, add photos to the catalog during Photo Mechanicâ€™s powerful Ingest and Live Ingest, and search for simple words or by complex queries. Photo Mechanic Catalog allows you to share your catalog with multiple users."[/color:2a9yqp53]

For Mac/Nikon users, this could be a viable alternative to Media Pro. I hope it will have the sophistication and feature set of MP/EM. I looked quickly at the user guide and have been reading through one of the Photo Mechanic forum posts ("if you want a catalog feature - speak up here!"). I am encouraged by the discussion; the users are enthusiastic and the PM developer appears very astute, aware of essential DAM features, and forthcoming about what the catalog will or won't do. (Interestingly, some features are already part of PM such as structured keywords and Web gallery templates.) Of course, they probably underestimated how long it would take to create a catalog tool, and I might be overly optimistic, but it appears they really want to create a truly useful DAMâ€”and to make sure it works before releasing a buggy product.

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