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Round Trip MP to C1 Best way

NN635399196184276250UL
I have watched the "Southern Star" videos until Im board. Phase One really needs to update those videos if only to let people know that the product got an update back in 1952 😊


Ok moving on. In the video it shows where you can preform the "Open In" C1 when you select a few images in Mp you wish to edit. Of course you then have the choice of a catalog set or not ... This works fine EXCEPT .. C1 always opens in the last session I worked on in C1. Buddy in the video does not provide the FULL experience by showing us how all this knits together so well when working with multiple sessions. Mayby Southern Star is his only client 😊

So lets say the last thing I worked on in C1 was a European shoot with 6000 raw files in a C1 Session. Then a few days later I open MP, browse for some photos of portrait shoot and select several to process. When I say "open In" C1 launches, and opens the European Session with all 6000 images. Then to add to this pain C1 wants to reprocess a bunch of previews for some reason, then because I have to have the full sync on for XMP C1 begins a Full Sync on the 6000 images, and at times a 3rd process starts (I gave up trying to read all the things it wants to do).

Now I have to find the image in that mess. If I chose to make a catalog set then finding it is easier, but then it seems like Im adding a portrait shoot catalog set to my European session.

Some Questions:

1. Am I doing this the best way? (im really open to hear about any alternative workflows)
2. Why does C1 want to rebuild all those previews when I come in from MP?
3. Most likely no way around stoping the FULL SYNC and yet retain full sync on the XPM files. But if its a large session and just editing 3 photos then its a huge Pain.

I suppose one idea is always let C1 close on an empty session, but this is just not going to happen in a busy life 😊
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  • Graham Smith
    Can I suggest you read my post on asking why people want MP to integrate with C1 catalogues. It didn't receive the replies I was hoping for, so there may well be a flaw in what I am suggesting.

    The essence is that you move the focus away from C1 and onto MP (after all MP is a proper DAM), and do your organising in MP. You can then create what I called a dummy sessions, but maybe an empty sessions is a better description, which is a session with nothing in the capture folder etc.

    Opening a file from MP into this empty session allows you to use C1 simply as an editor, once finished you can go back to MP and hit CMD+B and your edits and cropping appear in MP.

    My own setup is to use Photo mechanic to do the initial ingest, along with initial culling and some auto filling of metadata. These are then auto imported into MP.

    In MP, I add some basic keywords and do more careful selects, with the aid of Fast Raw Viewer, and some are moved into catalogue sets.

    Then images are sent to C1 for editing.

    Now I have only just started to do this, and as it seemed obvious to me that a DAM program should be at the centre of operations. But no one seemed to be doing this, so it may well be that it's a daft idea, hence my earlier post asking for advice.

    But maybe its worth thinking about. Or maybe not.

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="myotis" wrote:
    [...] it seemed obvious to me that a DAM program should be at the centre of operations. But no one seemed to be doing this, so it may well be that it's a daft idea [...]


    It's not a daft idea. The DAM should be the center of a photo processing workflow. Round-tripping to the editor of choice should be supported by the DAM. I've written many times about this on this forum. And I made it clear to Phase One that trying to move users away from Media Pro to using a Capture One catalog system exclusively was unfriendly and illogical.

    I didn't respond to your earlier post because I don't use Capture One and so I don't have any experience to share. (I've reluctantly added Nikon NX-D to my workflow because I bought a new camera. So far it works fine, but it's not as capable as NX-2 and I did have to add more steps to my flow to accommodate the sidecar files.) If I ever decide to add C1 to my workflow, your "empty session" method is indeed the only way I would want to work with C1.
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:


    It's not a daft idea. The DAM should be the center of a photo processing workflow. Round-tripping to the editor of choice should be supported by the DAM.

    If I ever decide to add C1 to my workflow, your "empty session" method is indeed the only way I would want to work with C1.


    Thanks for this, at least its not just me that thinks this 😊

    I am still getting some odd behaviour in C1 that I don't fully understand, e.g. some of the time it only opens the image I send to it, and other times it opens all the images that share the same folder, but it seems to work a lot better than trying to have images in a both a session and an MP catalogue.

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • CAPTURE NIKON D700
    for nikon user
    the free view nx i and nxd are
    are working fine together
    bowth coming from house nikon

    but mp and c1 are not synchron
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  • Benoit Malphettes
    Why does C1 want to rebuild all those previews when I come in from MP?
    3. Most likely no way around stoping the FULL SYNC and yet retain full sync on the XPM files. But if its a large session and just editing 3 photos then its a huge Pain.

    On paper this path from MP to C1 sounds great but I haven't found a way to open one raw file only in a session. So if the pic I want to edit is in a folder containing 3,000 pics C1 will import them all to give me access to one pic...
    And C1 is not really useable as a DAM because it gets so slow as soon as it reads a Tif file of a few hundreds meg, let's not talk about files of 2 GB. So for now I use a frustrating mixture of Bridge and C1; at least Bridge has the advantage to give convenient paths to PS for merging, HDR, opening multiple files as layers etc.
    Needless to say, I am very open to a better way of working.
    Benoit
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="NNN635730126589323397" wrote:

    On paper this path from MP to C1 sounds great but I haven't found a way to open one raw file only in a session. So if the pic I want to edit is in a folder containing 3,000 pics C1 will import them all to give me access to one pic...
    And C1 is not really useable as a DAM because it gets so slow as soon as it reads a Tif file of a few hundreds meg, let's not talk about files of 2 GB. So for now I use a frustrating mixture of Bridge and C1; at least Bridge has the advantage to give convenient paths to PS for merging, HDR, opening multiple files as layers etc.
    Needless to say, I am very open to a better way of working.
    Benoit


    Is this with the same "empty" session approach I am using, for as I said, some of the time I get only the single raw file opening and some of the time I get the entire folder of raw files opening, and I can't work out why.

    AND, to ask the other part of my question, why do you have the TIFs catalogued in in C1 and not in Media Pro, which is much faster.

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • Benoit Malphettes
    why do you have the TIFs catalogued in in C1 and not in Media Pro, which is much faster.

    It's because I started cataloging into C1 when I moved away from LR 1 year ago.
    But I must be doing something wrong as I can get the hang of this MP to C1 session, or maybe it's just that MP like C1, is oversold as a great solution.
    Benoit
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  • NN635399196184276250UL
    Can I suggest you read my post on asking why people want MP to integrate with C1 catalogues. It didn't receive the replies I was hoping for, so there may well be a flaw in what I am suggesting.


    Hi Graham,
    I had read it but was not thinking of it the way I did after reading the second time. I guess just did not connect onthe first pass.

    The essence is that you move the focus away from C1 and onto MP (after all MP is a proper DAM), and do your organising in MP. You can then create what I called a dummy sessions, but maybe an empty sessions is a better description, which is a session with nothing in the capture folder etc.


    Background, lol, I own PhotoSupreme (next to latest server edition) and Media Pro. I bought MP hoping for a tighter integration to come at some point. I should say "better" integration so that for a user its easier. Also MP was so much faster in most operations and definitely in browsing result sets.

    For what its worth several on the Photo Supreme site also ingest into the DAM first, then do single edits out of the DAM. If you own a solid DAM this seems the way it should be, but none of the Phase One Videos present this option and why I am seeking others opinions/experiences.




    Opening a file from MP into this empty session allows you to use C1 simply as an editor, once finished you can go back to MP and hit CMD+B and your edits and cropping appear in MP.


    I have tried this single blank session approach. Most times it seems to work, but as one person mentions sometimes C1 wants to load all the images in the folder. I have not experienced this as to me the only thing in the folder should be the CAPTURE FOLDER and the File you want to edit.

    Here is my issue. Lets say I edit PIC01.RAW using the method you describe. After editing the file you return to MP and let it rebuild the image etc. Do you then go and remove that PIC01.RAW file from the folder? If you dont then wont that blank session start to grow and eventually be very large? If you remove the PIC01.RAW then what happens when you want to rebuild the MP thumbnail (want a different size) or in my case my original previews were too small at 1900 res and needed to rebuild. If the PIC01.RAW and the adjustment settings for it are gone then this seems like would cause issues if just wanting to tweek the original adjustment or rebuild previews or thumbnails, no?


    My own setup is to use Photo mechanic to do the initial ingest, along with initial culling and some auto filling of metadata. These are then auto imported into MP.


    I have tried PM and in many ways quite nice. Price it steep though and not really sure I would totally benefit from it. I used it on one trip and found it handy, but found myself wondering if I just imported to MP and came back later if that would be good enough. I dont face time constraints at this time.


    In MP, I add some basic keywords and do more careful selects, with the aid of Fast Raw Viewer, and some are moved into catalogue sets.


    I am using the FRV trial. I like it, but curious how you use this with MP. MP can let you see the RAW file at 100%. Are you launching FRW from inside MP to do an inspection? If this works for you then I could look at FRW as a "plugin" of sorts to MP and maybe not a bad use of $20. If FRW would let you actually DELETE the rejects from disk would be nice. I do not see this option in the trial. There is this reject folder, but not sure if that does the same thing. I still have a bunch of days left on the trial so will check out a youtube video later.


    Then images are sent to C1 for editing.

    Now I have only just started to do this, and as it seemed obvious to me that a DAM program should be at the centre of operations. But no one seemed to be doing this, so it may well be that it's a daft idea, hence my earlier post asking for advice.

    But maybe its worth thinking about. Or maybe not.

    Cheers,

    Graham


    As mentioned couple guys using Photo Supreme were doing it this way. It is what made me think about it first. Its just Phase One never presents it this way. Im interested in trying this approach. I do so much miss the DAM of Aperture. In a way its was a DAM, you brought the pictures in and chose to edit some of them ... but the concept was it was a DAM first - and a good editor in its day.

    Graham, I appreciate you dialog. Lots to consider. Want to see how others weigh in as well.
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  • NN635399196184276250UL
    Syncrazy,



    It's not a daft idea. The DAM should be the center of a photo processing workflow. Round-tripping to the editor of choice should be supported by the DAM. I've written many times about this on this forum. And I made it clear to Phase One that trying to move users away from Media Pro to using a Capture One catalog system exclusively was unfriendly and illogical.


    I totally agree. I have tried several times to use the C1 Catalog, even this last 9.3 release.

    I tossed 80K photos in and eventually it was all in there. Well opening the program again takes a huge amount of time, and for fun just try editing a keyword - you might as well leave the computer for couple hours. (I have the latest high end 27" iMac i5 (i7 prior same thing) and all SSD and FLash) Add to this the C1 Catalog corrupts.

    If anything Phase One should kill the catalog completely in C1 and focus on Mp integration .... or Kill MP and get the DAM catalog working right in C1.

    Having been burnt by the Aperture departure, there are some nice things about the DAM being independent of the editing. I remind myself that all was good with DAM+EDIT in one, until it was not. 😊
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="NNN635730126589323397" wrote:
    why do you have the TIFs catalogued in in C1 and not in Media Pro, which is much faster.

    It's because I started cataloging into C1 when I moved away from LR 1 year ago.
    But I must be doing something wrong as I can get the hang of this MP to C1 session, or maybe it's just that MP like C1, is oversold as a great solution.
    Benoit


    I think the Media Pro videos and help, don't help, as they focus on C1 with MP almost as an addon to C1. It helps once you move you focus to Media Pro and think of C1 as an editor for MP. MP creates tiny catalogues compared to C1 and is much faster to use. I have moved everything from C1 into MP, and in my case as I wasn't too concerned about existing edits (other than those files that were already Jpegs/Tiffs stored outside the C1 catalogues, I deleted the C1 catalogues.

    1. Open C1, and create a new session, call it MediaProViewer or MediaProEditor or anything you like. Leave it open

    2. Go to Media Pro, find the catalogued in Media Pro raw file you want to edit (or files)

    3. Select the file (or files) right click and send to C1

    4. Files will appear in "MediaProEditor" session where you can edit them, but the edit information is stored in the systems folder, not in the sessions folders.

    5. Pressing cmd +B in Media Pro shows the edits/crops you have just made in C1.

    So far this has worked well, but as I mentioned I have this erratic behaviour with C1 sometimes opening only the selected file from MP and sometimes all the files that share the same system folder.

    And, as my post in the other thread indicated, I haven't yet refined the nuances of how this works, or if there is a flaw in the approach, given what seemed obvious to me, isn't what people seem to be doing.

    But it has allowed me to put all my raw files into a single MP catalogue, rather than split by year across multiple C1 catalogues.

    I would give it a shot. it isn't going to interfere with anything you already have, as all you need to do is create the empty session as I describe above.

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="NN635399196184276250UL" wrote:


    Background, lol, I own PhotoSupreme (next to latest server edition) and Media Pro.


    I did look at PhotoSupreme, but thought MP might offer the better integration. I also felt MP was a bit faster

    I have tried this single blank session approach. Most times it seems to work, but as one person mentions sometimes C1 wants to load all the images in the folder. I have not experienced this as to me the only thing in the folder should be the CAPTURE FOLDER and the File you want to edit.


    It was me that mentioned this as I am getting weird things happening. Most of the time it works fine, some of the time all the mages that share the same system folder appear, and in fact, some of the time all the files appear briefly, and then disappear leaving only the file you had sent from Media Pro

    Here is my issue. Lets say I edit PIC01.RAW using the method you describe. After editing the file you return to MP and let it rebuild the image etc. Do you then go and remove that PIC01.RAW file from the folder? If you dont then wont that blank session start to grow and eventually be very large?


    Ah, with me the files aren't moved into the session, they stay in the system folder and are only referenced in the session. My original plan was to have multiple sessions, (a session for each catalog set in Media Pro) which could then be backed up by catalog set, but so far nothing has been physically moved to the session folders.

    The idea for this "empty session" came from a Phase One webinar where David suggested setting up an dummy session to use as C1 as a file "viewer", so you could work with files directly from the system folders so I assumed this is the way its meant to work. With files only moved to the Capture Folder if you explicitly drag or import them there.

    I have tried PM and in many ways quite nice. Price it steep though and not really sure I would totally benefit from it. I used it on one trip and found it handy, but found myself wondering if I just imported to MP and came back later if that would be good enough. I dont face time constraints at this time.


    I ended up with PM, because Lightroom was so slow that I couldn't use it for browsing/culling etc. Since then I have just got used to it, and find it a useful "swiss army knife". But I would certainly look at other options, if I didn't already have it. As it is, given everything can talk to everything else via XMP files, I still use PM for things that could probably be done in MP, just because I am bit more familiar with PM.

    I am using the FRV trial. I like it, but curious how you use this with MP. MP can let you see the RAW file at 100%. Are you launching FRW from inside MP to do an inspection? If this works for you then I could look at FRW as a "plugin" of sorts to MP and maybe not a bad use of $20. If FRW would let you actually DELETE the rejects from disk would be nice. I do not see this option in the trial. There is this reject folder, but not sure if that does the same thing. I still have a bunch of days left on the trial so will check out a youtube video later.


    I have MP on one screen and FRV on the other and open the same system folder in both (everything is stored/catalogued by capture date, so this is easy to do).

    The most important aspect of FRV is that the Histogram is of the raw file, most programs show the Jpeg Preview histogram (including the camera histograms) and a good Jpeg histogram equals an underexposed raw file. FRV also has focus peaking and several other nice things to help sort out the best "technical" image.

    I can give initial ratings in FRV and then just select the same files in MP and use the update annotations command to update the ratings in MP, as both programs use XMP files

    The rejects folder, has been a bit of a pain on the Mac as even when they are deleted, MP rather cleverly still finds them in the Trash. I moved the rejects folder (in FRV preferences) to more easily found location than the default and at the end of a session, properly delete the files, and then get MP to search for missing files and tell it to remove them from the catalogue (there is a command in FRV to remove rejects, and some options that I haven't investigated yet)

    I do so much miss the DAM of Aperture. In a way its was a DAM, you brought the pictures in and chose to edit some of them ... but the concept was it was a DAM first - and a good editor in its day.


    I think everyone misses the DAM in aperture, I managed to put off buying it, but finally gave in and created a completely new workflow around it. Unfortunately, just as I felt happy with the switch, Apple discontinued it.

    I still prefer C1 as raw processor over every thing else I have tried.

    It will be good if a few of us have a go at this empty session approach, and see if we can iron out some of the odd behaviour and sort out any issues.

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="NN635399196184276250UL" wrote:


    I totally agree. I have tried several times to use the C1 Catalog, even this last 9.3 release.

    I tossed 80K photos in and eventually it was all in there. Well opening the program again takes a huge amount of time, and for fun just try editing a keyword - you might as well leave the computer for couple hours. (I have the latest high end 27" iMac i5 (i7 prior same thing) and all SSD and FLash) Add to this the C1 Catalog corrupts.

    If anything Phase One should kill the catalog completely in C1 and focus on Mp integration .... or Kill MP and get the DAM catalog working right in C1.

    Having been burnt by the Aperture departure, there are some nice things about the DAM being independent of the editing. I remind myself that all was good with DAM+EDIT in one, until it was not. 😊


    But even as it is, MP offers a much faster DAM solution than C1, and the "empty session" approach, unless it turns out to have a serious flaw, gives pretty good integration.

    The thing about MP is that it is more than just a catalogue for C1 images, and some people here don't even use C1. Also, in terms of reasonable cost DAMs, there are only two on the market that I am aware of, MP and Photosupreme.

    Building a good database program is difficult and I would like to see Phase build a better Media Pro first, and then build C1 into Media Pro as a built in Editor, rather than trying to incorporate a database into C1.

    They could easily do this without even telling anyone, as C1 10, or 11 or whatever, could still look exactly the same, but just have Media pro at its core rather than C1.

    At the same time you could also have a better Media Pro for customers who don't use Capture one and are looking for a good DAM. The majority of Raw convertors don't have any DAM features.

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • Graham Smith
    I can confirm, as I have now rechecked, that no files are moved into the "empty session"

    The raw file stays in the system folder it was originally catalogued in Media Pro.

    If you send images from MP that are in a catalog set, the catalog set opens in C1 as an album.

    You can then delete that album after you have finished editing. You get a warning about it containing pictures, but it does not delete the Raws stored in the system folder.

    As the edits are also stored in the system folder, even after the Album in C1 is deleted, you can still go back to the images in C1 and select cmd+B to rebuild the thumbnails in MP to reflect the changes just made in C1.

    It therefore seems to give you the option of keeping the previews in the Session (and maybe do as I suggest having different empty sessions for different projects) knowing the session files are never going to increase much in size.

    OR, send files in catalog sets to the empty sessions (which will become an album) and delete these albums once you are finished.

    If you re-open files from MP that have already been edited in a session where the album was deleted, they re-open with all the previous edits.

    BUT BE WARNED, I am still having the odd thing happening in terms of what is actually opened in C1 (single file or entire folder) , AND the first time I deleted an album in C1, one of the raw files in the systems folder was also deleted.

    I have since sent files 10 times from MP to C1 and deleted the album in C1 10 times, without any deletion of any RAW files, so I am not sure what happened the first time.

    It's a bit confusing as to what is going on at times, But I am now doing things I have never done before in C1, and there seems a lot to learn about what and where and how files are stored, manipulated and deleted.

    But, it still looks like a promising way of integrating MP with C1. It would be really useful if someone that knew more about C1 (and indeed MP) could have a play with this.

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="myotis" wrote:

    BUT BE WARNED, I am still having the odd thing happening in terms of what is actually opened in C1 (single file or entire folder) , AND the first time I deleted an album in C1, one of the raw files in the systems folder was also deleted.


    That's scary. Did the raw file get moved to the Trash or did it disappear entirely?

    [quote="myotis" wrote:

    But, [the "empty session" method] still looks like a promising way of integrating MP with C1. It would be really useful if someone that knew more about C1 (and indeed MP) could have a play with this.


    I do appreciate all the work you've done to test this. If I had C1 I might help out, but I don't want to lose my original files!

    And as an aside, the fact that you even have to jump through such hoops to simply to edit a file tells me that Phase One is stubbornly holding on to the unfriendly idea that C1 should be the center of our workflow. I might suggest that Phase One just release a "slim" version of C1 that functions as a raw editor only without all the "catalog" crud that they bolted onto it. So their product line might look like this:


    • Media Pro ["best single user DAM on the market"]

    • Capture One Editor ["best raw editor on the market"]

    • Capture One Pro ["best raw editor with catalog on the market, once we figure out how to make cataloguing functionality work as well as Media Pro, with all the incredible features of Media Pro; but until then, just get Media Pro and Capture One Editor"]

    😉
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  • Benoit Malphettes
    Graham,Thanks for posting the info, it does work as described in C1 V9
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:

    That's scary. Did the raw file get moved to the Trash or did it disappear entirely?


    It was in the session trash folder, but I had backed the files up before I started 😊

    And as an aside, the fact that you even have to jump through such hoops to simply to edit a file tells me that Phase One is stubbornly holding on to the unfriendly idea that C1 should be the center of our workflow. I might suggest that Phase One just release a "slim" version of C1 that functions as a raw editor only without all the "catalog" crud that they bolted onto it. So their product line might look like this:


    • Media Pro ["best single user DAM on the market"]

    • Capture One Editor ["best raw editor on the market"]

    • Capture One Pro ["best raw editor with catalog on the market, once we figure out how to make cataloguing functionality work as well as Media Pro, with all the incredible features of Media Pro; but until then, just get Media Pro and Capture One Editor"]

    😉


    I agree with the principle of the list, but I'm only jumping through hoops, because Phase aren't giving any proper instruction on how to use Media pro, in what seems the most logical way to use it, The basic process is easy and works well, its just some of the nuances that are tricky because I don't know enough about either C1 or MP.

    We have had a couple of requests from Phase to give feedback on various thing recently, and I have asked for Webinars and Blog entries on using Media Pro with C1, but I'm not convinced that Phase are really all that interested in MP e.g. there is no MP documentation in the Phase One documentation pages only C1, and there is no proper manual, just the help pages and a brief getting started document. Considering how much help there is for C1, this is pretty dismal.

    Unfortunately, I can't find my iView 3 manual, as I am sure 90% would apply to Media Pro.


    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • Graham Smith
    Benoit,

    Glad you got it working

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • Benoit Malphettes
    Thanks Graham,
    Benoit
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  • NN635399196184276250UL
    Graham, just on my iPad and time is tight at the moment, however wanted to respond.

    First thanks so much for this testing. I do have C1 v9.3 and MP SE. I also an IT guy so will give this method some further testing and see if mi observe the same things as you.

    I'm thinking copying maybe 100 of my raw files to a new raw file area, kind of pretending it's from a new shoot. There will be nothing in there but the raw files. No xmp no edits .. nothing. I will make a new MP catalog, and import this 100 raw files into MP. I will then do some file renaming, tagging etc, saving annotations and xmps. I will have an empty C1 session setup and then do some tests like editing one image, editing multiple images and then cleaning up the C1 session and see what happens. I will keep en eye on where and how the edit files, xmp files change.

    Question, do you 100 files is a good test, just looking for thoughts. If I go with 20 it's an easier process but not sure good enough sample size.

    Also when reading your process you seem to indicate that the images in MP that you send to C1 are in a MP catalog set. Not all my images in MP are in a catalog set. Did you do any testing where image sent to C1 were not in a MP catalog set?

    I'm a bit excited about this approach. If it works well then I will use the MP as DAM, and then send to C1 or Afinity direct from DAM.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="myotis" wrote:

    Unfortunately, I can't find my iView 3 manual, as I am sure 90% would apply to Media Pro.


    I still have my iView 3 manual and could send you copy if you want to contact me privately. It's over 10MB though, so might be too big for email. Perhaps Dropbox or similar. (But I'm not even sure if this forum allows private messaging. Oh well.)

    Also, a clarification question about your "empty session" method (I'm having trouble visualizing it since I don't use C1): Are you starting in Media Pro by using Helper Applications (i.e., right mouse click a single image thumbnail > select Open with... > select Capture One from the list of apps)? And then does C1 come into focus automatically and ask you to specify a session (e.g., the empty session you prepared earlier)?
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  • NN635399196184276250UL
    ***************************************************
    Warning Long Post, But Detailed Testing
    ***************************************************

    Here are my findings on this MP + C1 Blank Session Experiment. I also tested out the FastRawViewer while at it.


    First I created 3 Folders:


    - TEST RAW: This Held 100 Raw Nikon Files
    - TEST MP: This had a totally empty brand new MP Library
    - TEST C1: This held a totally blank C1 Session.


    I then imported the 100 raw images into MP. Here I did some experimenting on resolution for thumbnails and previews, and quality. Also some experimenting with the ONLY SHOW Preview option as well. (A little more on this later)


    Now that we had MP loaded with the 100 images it was time to do some testing.

    Note after each test below the directories were cleaned up to match the fresh state mentioned above.




    TEST 1: Select One Image in MP and Edit in C1 (Image is not in a MP Catalog Set)

    For this test I right clicked on a random image in MP, and said to OPEN WITH Capture One. Capture One Opened, loaded the Blank C1 session, and under the “system Folders†section of the C1 library I was located in the TEST RAW folder. There was no “Album†created. At first I thought everything was perfect, but within a few seconds C1 went off doing its thing creating 100 previews, xmp files and syncing imp data for the 100 files.

    In the TEST RAW folder created above you could clearly see the reaction of the Capture One directory where previews, edits and the sort are stored and the creation of XMP files for every one of the raw 100 images.

    I aborted further testing at this point as its really no different than working with the C1 session the way I do now.

    RESULT: No advantage to using this method over all photos being in a session. The drawback is creating all the previews.



    TEST 2: Select 4 images in MP and Edit in C1 (No image is in a MP Catalog set)

    For this test I selected 4 random images and right clicked on them in MP, and said to OPEN WITH Capture One. Capture One Opened, loaded the Blank C1 session, but this time C1 created a “Untitled Album†which only held my 4 images. At this point everything seemed wonderful.

    However, again C1 goes off and creates a .COF and .COS and .XMP for every image in the TEST RAW folder.

    ONE Notable difference, and it is a big one. This time C1 ONLY Generated a preview for the 4 images, not all 100. This made a big difference time wise.

    I wanted to do a further test, so I deleted the “Untitled Album†which basically put me back to a empty session, then closed C1. I went back to MP and did the same operation again, selecting to edit the same 4 images selected earlier in this test. This time C1 opened, created the Untitled Album, showed my 4 pictures and was done.

    This gives me some hope that by selecting multiple images, C1 will force create an album (making it easy to find the photos you wanted to edit) and only build previews for the images you want to edit. If the preview is there it seems to just use it.

    Now to edit one of the images. I selected one of the 4 images and changes the saturation to make image b&w. I then deleted the album in C1, and closed C1.

    Back in MP, I selected the 4 images again and said to Rebuild COMMAND-B. Perfect, the b&w image showed up in b&w.

    RESULT: Picking 2 images when wanting to edit one is a Pain. But this method works, and most times I would want to edit more than one picture. I see myself selecting the “good†shots from MP and saying ok lets take this batch to C1. Once I get back to MP some might get rated 5 star or whatever. I think I could live with this.



    TEST 3: Select 4 images in MP and Edit in C1 (The 4 Images were added to a MP Catalog Set that I named TEST)

    For this test I selected 4 different images. I then created the Catalog Set called TEST in MP and added the 4 images to this set. I then clicked on the TEST Catalog Set which then just showed me the 4 images in the MP browser. I selected all 4 images then right clicked and said OPEN WITH C1.

    C1 opened up in the Blank session as expected, BUT this time C1 asked me “Place images in Albums that match the Catalog Sets Specified?†I chose YES.

    This time the album was created, but called TEST as opposed to Untitled Album.

    Other than this, results were the same as TEST 2. All the .cos, .cof, .xmp files created in the folder TEST RAW. Also only the 4 previews created.

    RESULT: Same as Test2. Just get a Album Name. I do imagine if you don’t want to delete the Album, this could be useful if when you come to this session if your working on several shoots at a time. This way you could open the session, see the “readable album name†for say 3 shoots and edit away. You could delete the album once your done .. It is handy if editing multiple shoots.




    TEST 4: Keep TEST 3 Alive (Don’t delete anything) But create a second MP Catalog Set

    This time I did not delete the TEST album in C1. I also kept the test Catalog set in MP. I also did not delete any of the .cos, .cof or .xmp files C1 had created in Test 3.

    I created a Catalog Set TEST2, put 4 images in it, and said OPEN WITH C1.

    Everything worked the same as the test 3, except I now had 2 Session Albums TEST and TEST2

    RESTULT: Suggests you could work on 2 Albums the same time.



    TEST 5 (Same as Test 3) but this time ONLY 1 image was placed in a MP Catalog Set.

    RESULT: C1 Does not go crazy building all the previews as in test 1.





    My Conclusion

    MP as the DAM and the central point seems to work. The key is to select at least 2 images before going to C1 with the OPEN WITH for editing, or just put the 1 or more images in a Catalog Set first. C1 is going to build previews for the images in the Catalog Set - so it appears, so this is the trick to getting C1 to act as an editor for ONLY the files you want to select for editing in MP.

    During all my testing no files ever got deleted by accident by C1. And I was deleting albums on several of the tests. So I was happy not to see this happen.

    At no time did C1 ever write the .cos, cos or .xmp files to the TEST C1 folder. The only thing that seems to happen is that the capture one session file itself records any albums you created in the processes above.

    I do think Im going to move this direction.





    Thoughts on FastRawViewer And How it may help me Keep my MP preview resolution low'er'

    So as I mentioned earlier I experimented with MP resolution for previews. I have the 5k monitor, before this monitor I had 1280 previews and they were fine on my MacBook Pro retina and iMac. I toyed with the 1920 and for some work I selected that option.

    However with the 5k monitor, even the 2560 is a tad lacking at times. 3200 works very nicely. I rarely noticed enough difference between medium and high quality so sticking medium.

    The issue is the catalog of 80K photos and hitting 30 Gig Plus in size. Everything still ticks along perfectly, BUT what I noticed is the higher the preview resolution the MUCH MUCH longer it takes moving to the next picture in media mode.. and this does frustrate me at times. I like browsing quickly.

    I decided to assign FastRawViewer to the right click OPEN WITH command and see how it went. I must say, it opens the folder containing the Raw image quite quickly, positions itself on the desired image and I get a chance to see the Full Raw Image (with some nice exposure details) very quickly. It all happens faster than waiting for the RAW File to show up in MP replacing the preview (if you have that option selected).

    Since there is a good chance I want to sniff around the adjoining photos, browsing in FastRawViewer is quite quick. Im starting to think of it as a 20$ PLUGIN for MP. I still have a bunch of days left for trial but I see myself buying it for the purpose I just mentioned. Also it can be used as a early culling tool.

    I still need to find a decent enough resolution for these previews. Does any one else have a 5k monitor, and what resolution do you use for previews?




    Final Comment

    Hope I did not boar any of you to death but I could sense there are several of us looking for a better, best way to use MP as the DAM, and C1 for editing. They are both excellent packages on their own (C1 and MP) I would hate to see them combine them and we end up with a MP thats less of a DAM and a C1 thats less of an editor.
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:


    I still have my iView 3 manual and could send you copy if you want to contact me privately. It's over 10MB though, so might be too big for email. Perhaps Dropbox or similar. (But I'm not even sure if this forum allows private messaging. Oh well.)

    Also, a clarification question about your "empty session" method (I'm having trouble visualizing it since I don't use C1): Are you starting in Media Pro by using Helper Applications (i.e., right mouse click a single image thumbnail > select Open with... > select Capture One from the list of apps)? And then does C1 come into focus automatically and ask you to specify a session (e.g., the empty session you prepared earlier)?


    If you right click in MP as you describe, one of three things potentially happens.

    1. If C1 is already open in a session, the files you right click on in MP open in the C1 session

    2. If C1 isn't open, and you right click it is launched and opens the session (or catalogue) you had opened when you shut C1 down, and files you selected in MP open in C1.

    3. If you closed down all open sessions/catalogues in C1 the last time you shut down C1, sending files from MP initiates launching C1 and you get a list of C1 sessions and catalogues to choose from.

    I don't actually know what happens when you use a catalogue rather than a session.

    Cheers,

    Graham

    3.
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="NN635399196184276250UL" wrote:
    ***************************************************
    Warning Long Post, But Detailed Testing
    ***************************************************

    Here are my findings on this MP + C1 Blank Session Experiment. I also tested out the FastRawViewer while at it.



    This all looks very promising and great that you took the time to try it out in such a organised way.

    I've actually raised this as a support case with Phase one, and asked if they could look at this thread and maybe produce some proper Phase One guidance on this approach. They replied and said they had handed it over to their Webinar production team, so who knows, if we are lucky it may also mean some improvements in the integration.

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • NN635399196184276250UL
    thanks Graham. We shall see where it leads.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Graham, I sent you the iView manual link, so go ahead and delete your email address above. If you didn't receive the email, check your spam filter.
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    Graham, I sent you the iView manual link, so go ahead and delete your email address above. If you didn't receive the email, check your spam filter.


    Many thanks for this, manual now safely downloaded 😊

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Hello,

    I'm using MP and C1. In my opinion MP is the better catalog and also better as LR.

    The workflow with the MediaPro-Session is working for me. Normally MP can create new Previews of the edited images. Normally ... Only if PhaseOne changes the path for the development settings this does not work. This happens with every major update.

    What do you do in the time until Phaseone adjusts MP after months?
    Or if you edit with another editor?

    Do you create a masterfile as tiff or jpg an import this file for later use?
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="Nordlicht" wrote:
    Hello,

    I'm using MP and C1. In my opinion MP is the better catalog and also better as LR.

    The workflow with the MediaPro-Session is working for me. Normally MP can create new Previews of the edited images. Normally ... Only if PhaseOne changes the path for the development settings this does not work. This happens with every major update.

    What do you do in the time until Phaseone adjusts MP after months?
    Or if you edit with another editor?

    Do you create a masterfile as tiff or jpg an import this file for later use?


    Not had this problem yet, as I have only just started to use it, I admit I assumed that suitable updates to MP would be released at the same time as C1 updates.

    But, I gather this is not the case from what you have said.

    Cheers,
    Graham
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="myotis" wrote:

    Not had this problem yet, as I have only just started to use it, I admit I assumed that suitable updates to MP would be released at the same time as C1 updates.

    But, I gather this is not the case from what you have said.


    Updating MP at the release of a new C1 version would be the best solution. In the past, users had to wait a long time for an update.
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  • Graham Smith
    [quote="Nordlicht" wrote:


    Updating MP at the release of a new C1 version would be the best solution. In the past, users had to wait a long time for an update.


    Let's hope things will improve with the next release. It doesn't seem unreasonable to expect MP and C1 to be upgraded in sync.

    Cheers,
    Graham
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