RAW to Tiff color profile conversion Issue?
I have recently tried C1 8 as well as DXO Pro10 trials. In both cases I'm seeing something quite strange - the exported tiff (16bit) images do not resemble what I processed in either tool. In other words when viewing the raw file (after processing - sat, color balance, contrast..etc), the output (exported) tiff image does not match at all. When using LR 6 I get wysiwyg, no mismatch, the tiff exports look exactly like the LR6 developed raw image. FYI - using a very nicely profiled Dell u2713HM monitor. I suspect some sort of profile issues someplace along the develop/export chain. I have tried exporting the tiff to sRGB as well as AdobeRGB with same results, they all look much less punchy than the processed version while in the tool. Even when I pull the processed tiff files up in C1 or DXO they do not resemble the processed raw image. Any ideas? I ask cuz I really want to like DXO and C1 but right now they are not matching up in output to LR6...not even close. This has to be some sort of user error on my part.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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[quote="NN635280739885929495UL" wrote:
Seeing quite a lot of this broad type of issue across this particular forum's threads. There must be SOMETHING in common somewhere that isn't right ...unless we are all idiots:-)
...the exported tiff (16bit) images do not resemble what I processed in either tool. In other words when viewing the raw file (after processing - sat, color balance, contrast..etc), the output (exported) tiff image does not match at all.
[quote="NN635280739885929495UL" wrote:
Not necessarily... see above.
This has to be some sort of user error on my part.[quote="NN635280739885929495UL" wrote:
I'm certainly not the best help you'll get here as, not only have I just started on C1, but I haven't even fixed my own issues with C1 yet. However I find that applying myself to the problems of others is usually beneficial all round. Personally I don't like to see zero forum responses to anyone taking the time and trouble to come here and ask for help. What would probably help other people to help you is some actual nitty gritty detail - operating system, graphics card, drivers etc. An image or two illustrating the issue might also kick things off for you.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.0 -
Here is a link to my website with an example -
http://www.dlnaturephotos.com/Temp/0 -
Further details - Windows 8.1 OS, Windows 10 OS. I have tried both OS'es with same results. Both 8.1 and Windows 10 are clean installs. Using NVidia GeForce GT 730. I know its not fancy but it is quiet and stable. Intel i7, 8 gb memory, Samsung SSD. Only installed the NVidia graphic drivers..nothing else. I basicall have a simple clean install and it bugs the dickens out of me why this is happening. Was pretty close to tossing C1 out the window then tried DX0 and it too had issue. So something in common there? 0 -
There are some variables in here that are as yet unkown so it's difficult to know what to suggest.
Firstly, are you using Export or Process?
If Export are you exporting the Variants or the Original?
(If original you will get the original RAW file exported as the file type of your choice with no edits, just the conversion.)
If Variant what are the Export Recipe settings?
The same question if you are instead using a Process Recipe - things converge at this point.
What are you doing with the size of the Image? Are comparing the Original and the output filed at the same pixel size dimensions?
When Editing/Veiwing, what is the setting for your Proof Profile?
Let's start there and see where we head.
Grant0 -
All good questions -
Proof profile - sRGB (will vary depending on my output file)
Rendering intent - perceptual
Export using variants, export recipe is as follows -
16bit tiff, uncompressed, no sharpening, have tried embed camera profile, sRGB, AdobeRGB ICC profiles, every combination produces same results. I have tried jpeg too.
The size of the image is the same - What you see are the original compared to the uncompressed tiff.
I have not used the Process function too much but when I did just now the same exact result, all settings as above (used AdobeRGB and then sRGB). It is very consistent, it drops some information along the process chain, why is the big question. I know complex systems (Oracle DBA, Unix) , this thing is not that complex it seems to me. It does have a learning curve though and my suspiction is that I'm missing something very generic, a common thread. I even took a raw file, did no editing to it, used a default processing recipe and same result - the tiff looks different. Something is just not right.0 -
You are not alone with this kind of problem.
Look at this thread, and in particular the 2 histograms on the second page : black point shift, highlights changed and less contrast.
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=20542
Bernard0 -
Thx Bernard28. Read the thread and it does match what I'm seeing. It might be some sort of Windows color management issue though as I see it in DXO too. No issues in any Adobe product PS CS6 or LR 6. They work fine as far as output consistencies. Whatever the problem is...Adobe seems to have uncovered it and worked around it. 0 -
Maybe this is what's occuring on C1 -
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=192760 -
Somewhere in the pipeline to the actual display on your monitor with tiff, jpeg and png images, a conversion to srgb takes place. The input profile, or the .icc profile embedded in the image is read correctly, but the problem is that intended output seems stuck in srgb, even if your wide gamut screen can display a larger range of colors.
Adobe programs do not automatically assume that intended output is srgb, Photoshop as well as Bridge simply color manage the image all the way to your screen. This behavior of assuming default output color spaces instead of color managing the image all the way to your actual hardware of output, is also seen with programs such as Apple aperture (now discontinued), (but strangely not iPhoto), and DxO optics. It's annoying really.
Chris0 -
Really? Now that is interesting and makes sense as I have seen similar behavior from DXO 10 as well. So to be clear what you are suggesting is that C1 and DXO both DO NOT color manage the tiff all the way to the output display while Adobe does. Very interesting indeed. So here is the the big question - how do I correct that behavior? How do I correct it in my workflow? 0 -
[quote="NN635280739885929495UL" wrote:
Really? Now that is interesting and makes sense as I have seen similar behavior from DXO 10 as well. So to be clear what you are suggesting is that C1 and DXO both DO NOT color manage the tiff all the way to the output display while Adobe does. Very interesting indeed. So here is the the big question - how do I correct that behavior? How do I correct it in my workflow?
That's just why this is an issue: when the tiff or jpeg images have been converted into the srgb colorspace, there's no way of getting the lost colors back. From what I know, it's hard to reverse engineer already written software to incorporate full and correct color management. It's the only reason I can think of why Phase one doesn't change this in CO1, when I'm sure they are aware of the lack of proper color management with tiff and jpeg images.
Chris0
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